Tiger's Death Stare at Alex Miceli

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by zeg

So your suggestion to make his response more "genuine" is to say a load of crap that he doesn't actually mean?

How do you know what Tiger actually thinks?

Do you have some type ESP or mind bending technique working that we don't know about?

Gheez, it's a suggestion.

Lighten up.

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Guys like "Phil, Keegan, Donald and even Rory" have never been subjected to anything like the scrutiny, questioning, and badgering Tiger has.  Not even close.

Tiger has had the chip on his shoulder for a long time, its not like this is something new for him. I would also say that Phil has been subject to the scrutiny for along time also. Your points are hardly a defence for his attitude. I imagine his game would improve with some positive energy and thinking as well, rather then always dwelling on the negative.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Your points are hardly a defence for his attitude. I imagine his game would improve with some positive energy and thinking as well, rather then always dwelling on the negative.

How is his response "dwelling on the negative"?

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by iacas

How is his response "dwelling on the negative"?

It goes back to the main point that if Tiger came across a little more positive and less defensive, which has been documented over and over again by the media, that there might be more positive energy around him. The last couple of years are not exactly filled with positive vibes surrounding Tiger and my point was that if he could roll out of the tough questions without causing so much negative attention it might translate to his golf game.... One would think that he could use all the confidence he could get.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

How is his response "dwelling on the negative"?

It goes back to the main point that if Tiger came across a little more positive and less defensive, which has been documented over and over again by the media, that there might be more positive energy around him. The last couple of years are not exactly filled with positive vibes surrounding Tiger and my point was that if he could roll out of the tough questions without causing so much negative attention it might translate to his golf game.... One would think that he could use all the confidence he could get.

So who's dwelling on the negative? The guy who says "no comment" or the media who, in your own words, keep documenting his defensiveness over and over again?

[Canuck]

well obviously the media will push and push, thats what they do. The media has a huge roll on how Tiger's image is portrayed, but do you think he helps himself to look better? I don't and I don't think he really cares. Thats totally up to him, but you think he would want to have the best image as possible.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Canuck

well obviously the media will push and push, thats what they do. The media has a huge roll on how Tiger's image is portrayed, but do you think he helps himself to look better? I don't and I don't think he really cares. Thats totally up to him, but you think he would want to have the best image as possible.

* role

The impression I get, is that the casual golf fan drawn to the game by Tiger Woods does not watch the interviews, has no idea who Alex Miceli is, and is okay with the pouty whiny Tiger as long as they also get to see doses of the snarly fistpumpy Tiger. I also suspect hardcore Tiger Woods fans just want to see an image of Tiger hoisting a trophy every Sunday and getting to 19 Majors and beyond.

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

* role

The impression I get, is that the casual golf fan drawn to the game by Tiger Woods does not watch the interviews, has no idea who Alex Miceli is, and is okay with the pouty whiny Tiger as long as they also get to see doses of the snarly fistpumpy Tiger. I also suspect hardcore Tiger Woods fans just want to see an image of Tiger hoisting a trophy every Sunday and getting to 19 Majors and beyond.

Agreed! Nothing likely watching him tear it up and win. He is the most fascinating  golfer to watch.

[bilinguru]

Quote:

Wow, what a strange post.

First you take off on the Japanese as if they are especially hypocritical, or as if there is no porn or crime in the US, where the politicians are all competing for "Most Sanctimonious," even serial adulterer Newt. Japan has about 130 million people, packed together a lot more tightly than in the US, and yet the whole country has about 1100 murders a year. Compare that to just one US city --- NYC alone has over 500 murders per year. Japanese porn doesn't even show genitals without censoring, um, at least that's what I hear. As for Buddhists, nobody said they're not allowed to watch porn. How do you think they got so good at clapping with one hand?

And just by the way, Japan is not officially anything, let alone Buddhist, but in the past, Shinto was closer to being the official religion than Buddhism. And Shinto has no rigid puritanical doctrine, so you are even further off base.

But that's not enough for you, you're also a mind reader. You know exactly when Tiger started screwing around, and you know that he looks down on people based on what, 15 minutes a month talking with hostile reporters trying to make a name for themselves?

Total fail.

Total fail?  Perhaps you didn't understand?

OK, let me try to explain, because I actually think you guys know what you're talking about.

First, I don't think I characterized the Japanese as hypocritical. My wife is Japanese.  The Japanese are, like many cultures, slaves to convention.  The prevalence of porn (which does not compare to America) was simply brought out to demonstrate that they do not subscribe to Buddhist tenets.

The 'official' categorization of Japan as a Buddhist nation is not mine, but that of any guidebook or resource you care to pick up.

Shinto is observed, but much in the same way as buying a lottery ticket.  People go to shrines on festival days like you and I hit the casino.  Rigid and puritanical are not the adjectives I would use to describe it.  Pagan and agricultural would be more accurate. Festivals are what we do here, not masses.

Finally, it's true that I don't know when Tiger started screwing around.  But, I'm fairly sure it was well before he asked his wife to marry him, and has continued well after.

I base this not on a 15 minute press conference but on a decade of lies.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

* role

The impression I get, is that the casual golf fan drawn to the game by Tiger Woods does not watch the interviews, has no idea who Alex Miceli is, and is okay with the pouty whiny Tiger as long as they also get to see doses of the snarly fistpumpy Tiger. I also suspect hardcore Tiger Woods fans just want to see an image of Tiger hoisting a trophy every Sunday and getting to 19 Majors and beyond.

More than anything, I want to see the entire staff of the local Hooters rush onto the green to hug him when he sinks that putt on 18 for the W.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Total fail?  Perhaps you didn't understand?

OK, let me try to explain, because I actually think you guys know what you're talking about.

First, I don't think I characterized the Japanese as hypocritical. My wife is Japanese.  The Japanese are, like many cultures, slaves to convention.  The prevalence of porn (which does not compare to America) was simply brought out to demonstrate that they do not subscribe to Buddhist tenets.

The 'official' categorization of Japan as a Buddhist nation is not mine, but that of any guidebook or resource you care to pick up.

Shinto is observed, but much in the same way as buying a lottery ticket.  People go to shrines on festival days like you and I hit the casino.  Rigid and puritanical are not the adjectives I would use to describe it.  Pagan and agricultural would be more accurate. Festivals are what we do here, not masses.

Finally, it's true that I don't know when Tiger started screwing around.  But, I'm fairly sure it was well before he asked his wife to marry him, and has continued well after.

I base this not on a 15 minute press conference but on a decade of lies.

It's amazing to me that even though you live in a country you describe as a Buddhist nation, you have little understanding of the religion or that Buddhism like any religion will have strict adherents and a lot more who are more on the fringe. And once again I will explain that there are numerous Buddhist schools and each has there own tenets. What does a fondness for pornography have to do with Buddhist tenets? Frankly your understanding of the religion is seriously lacking and you should just stop talking about this. It is not pertinent to this discussion in an way except for you trying to rip on Woods.

[bilinguru]

I'm not ripping on Woods.  I am merely observing that he is not what he purports to be. And the fact that Buddhism has various schools is not the point.  The basic teachings of ALL forms of Buddhism, which I have had the good fortune to observe and explore first hand and in many forms, is that nirvana cannot be found in the flesh, which is where Tiger sought his solace. I never said that a 'fondness for pornography' is connected with Buddhism.  I think I quite clearly said the opposite.  Please re-read the posts.

I learned a long time ago that religion is not a topic suitable for casual discourse, so I won't go any further with this.

My point, which I feel confident that most readers of this forum will agree, is that for Tiger to evoke Buddhism in his "I've been a bad boy" press conference was pretty calculated and probably not genuine.  Hey, maybe I'm wrong.  I really would love to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But, as he has been so full of crap over the course of the past 10, no closer to 15, years that I have a hard time believing him.

MSchott, please look back on what I posted.  I think I am quite respectful to Buddhism and merely point out that Tiger, despite having a mother who is Buddhist, has no concept of what the basic precepts of Buddhism are all about.  Life is suffering and suffering is caused by craving.  The suffering Tiger is presently experiencing is a result of his craving for pleasure.  Correct me if I'm wrong,

[newtogolf]

Wow, you got all that from Tigers refusal to answer a question about an exerpt from a book that wasn't written by him?

Originally Posted by bilinguru

I'm not ripping on Woods.  I am merely observing that he is not what he purports to be. And the fact that Buddhism has various schools is not the point.  The basic teachings of ALL forms of Buddhism, which I have had the good fortune to observe and explore first hand and in many forms, is that nirvana cannot be found in the flesh, which is where Tiger sought his solace. I never said that a 'fondness for pornography' is connected with Buddhism.  I think I quite clearly said the opposite.  Please re-read the posts.

I learned a long time ago that religion is not a topic suitable for casual discourse, so I won't go any further with this.

My point, which I feel confident that most readers of this forum will agree, is that for Tiger to evoke Buddhism in his "I've been a bad boy" press conference was pretty calculated and probably not genuine.  Hey, maybe I'm wrong.  I really would love to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But, as he has been so full of crap over the course of the past 10, no closer to 15, years that I have a hard time believing him.

MSchott, please look back on what I posted.  I think I am quite respectful to Buddhism and merely point out that Tiger, despite having a mother who is Buddhist, has no concept of what the basic precepts of Buddhism are all about.  Life is suffering and suffering is caused by craving.  The suffering Tiger is presently experiencing is a result of his craving for pleasure.  Correct me if I'm wrong,

[k-troop]

You could just as easily conclude that Tiger discovered that he had allowed hedonistic impulses to control his life and turn him away from the things that were truly important, so re re-approached Buddhism to help him recapture the focus and balance in his life.

You could also make a case that meditation and a personal quest for peace are the only things that kept him from jumping over the desk and realigning Mr. Miceli's priorities.

It's all speculation, and no one person's speculation is any more inherently accurate than anyone else's.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

I'm not ripping on Woods.  I am merely observing that he is not what he purports to be. And the fact that Buddhism has various schools is not the point.  The basic teachings of ALL forms of Buddhism, which I have had the good fortune to observe and explore first hand and in many forms, is that nirvana cannot be found in the flesh, which is where Tiger sought his solace. I never said that a 'fondness for pornography' is connected with Buddhism.  I think I quite clearly said the opposite.  Please re-read the posts.

I learned a long time ago that religion is not a topic suitable for casual discourse, so I won't go any further with this.

My point, which I feel confident that most readers of this forum will agree, is that for Tiger to evoke Buddhism in his "I've been a bad boy" press conference was pretty calculated and probably not genuine.  Hey, maybe I'm wrong.  I really would love to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. But, as he has been so full of crap over the course of the past 10, no closer to 15, years that I have a hard time believing him.

MSchott, please look back on what I posted.  I think I am quite respectful to Buddhism and merely point out that Tiger, despite having a mother who is Buddhist, has no concept of what the basic precepts of Buddhism are all about.  Life is suffering and suffering is caused by craving.  The suffering Tiger is presently experiencing is a result of his craving for pleasure.  Correct me if I'm wrong,

OK. The point is that some Buddhist schools may discuss suffering in term of cravings. That's a pretty old school view and may only be applicable to priests in Buddhist temples who practice this way. This is far from true for many other schools and by ascribing these to Tiger and his faults is possibly wrong. Even if you are right in thinking that his Buddhism is based in this it's not fair to assume that all Buddhists live up to this high standard. Buddhism is about manifesting our inherent Buddha nature in our lives by eradicating the negative karma we have accumulated throughout our many existences. How that is done is different based on the school but none of us are perfect and we all have this negative karma.

Applying this to Tiger's publicized transgressions, he now has the opportunity to do self examination and fix within himself whatever caused him to act that way. Whether he seriously does this is up to him and frankly, judging him for his actions as a human being is hypocritical and self serving. We all have faults and few of us live up to the highest standards of our religions.

To the point of this situation with Miceli, Woods IMO showed admirable restraint. Miceli was being foolish and letting his ego get the best of him without regard to Tiger's situation. Tiger was polite and could easily have told Miceli to jump in the lake or something much worse. It's not easy living your life in the public eye and few are as scrutinized as Mr. Woods. He's far from perfect but it's better to forgive him for his sins as he's just a human than judge him to some standard that we arbitrarily ascribe.

[bilinguru]

I completely agree that Tiger handled Micelli well.  My point is that he wouldn't have had to handle him at all if he had told his agent o keep his mouth shut.

As to Buddhism and what its many forms mean, well, that's perhaps a discussion for a private mail.  I have studied under several monks here in Japan, old school and new school, and the basic fundamental teachings do not waver.  Renouncing attachments to material things is a fundamental tenet of all serious Buddhists.  Anyway, Tiger, as I've said is flawed, as are we all.  My point of contention with guy is that he has zero humility in the face of what has to be predictable scrutiny given how he has lived his life and made his living.  You can't make 30 million dollars pretending to be a model citizen and then get upset when people put your feet to the fire when your personae has been exposed as a farce.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

I completely agree that Tiger handled Micelli well.  My point is that he wouldn't have had to handle him at all if he had told his agent o keep his mouth shut.

As to Buddhism and what its many forms mean, well, that's perhaps a discussion for a private mail.  I have studied under several monks here in Japan, old school and new school, and the basic fundamental teachings do not waver.  Renouncing attachments to material things is a fundamental tenet of all serious Buddhists.  Anyway, Tiger, as I've said is flawed, as are we all.  My point of contention with guy is that he has zero humility in the face of what has to be predictable scrutiny given how he has lived his life and made his living.  You can't make 30 million dollars pretending to be a model citizen and then get upset when people put your feet to the fire when your personae has been exposed as a farce.

You are 100% wrong here. I've been a Nichiren Buddhist for 16 years and am a serious Buddhist. I agree that this is no place for further discussion of this as well.

And who is saying that Tiger is upset that people are putting his feet to the fire? From what I've seen he seems contrite about his previous behavior.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

As to Buddhism and what its many forms mean, well, that's perhaps a discussion for a private mail.

Originally Posted by MSchott

I agree that this is no place for further discussion of this as well.

Glad you guys can agree on something.