Tiger Injures Achilles Tendon

[BugDude]

It is all my opinion, but I'm sure you will argue that my opinion is wrong.  When he first came into the golf scene, I was turned off by his cocky atitude in interviews.  "Great" players don't have to say it, they do it.  Is he a great golfer?  Yes, he is good at negotiating his way around a golf course.  That doesn't mean everyone likes him.

During his absence from golf and even his return, there have been many golf tournaments in which he was not even playing in and the commentators seemed to talk about him as much as the people actually playing in the tournament.  Disagree if you like, go back and watch some of the coverage.

I distinctly recall one tournament many years ago (sorry, I can't recall which one, date, or time) in which me and my golf buddies talked Monday about how much they showed Tiger and he wasn't even in contention.

My opinion is greatest GOLFER, overall, in the context of entire career.  Tiger was a couple years in and everyone was ready to make the proclamation...a career is a long time.  Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by iacas

For example?

Because he seems to know more about the history of the game than almost any other current PGA Tour player.

He moves the needle. He's shown because the network wants viewers. If people didn't care about him, they wouldn't show him on TV when he's not in the hunt.

Exaggerate much?

That's your opinion. Others can make a case that 14 in the modern era is as good as 18 in Jack's era. You feel differently. But I think we all agree that Jack's career as a golf course architect really don't affect his status as "greatest player."

[newtogolf]

The networks depend on Tiger for ratings, he's the guy that draws in non-golf fans to watch.  He's the guy that makes headlines in golf, good and bad that people read.  He's the guy that increased golfs popularity in terms of the networks and number of people playing golf.  As Erik stated, "he moves the needle".  No one else moves the needle like Tiger, Phil can attract some attention, Rory is building a fan base, Fowler might get some teenage girls to take a 2nd look, but no one has Tigers drawing power.

Until someone takes his place, expect to hear his name a lot more.  The other golfers on Tour might resent, appreciate or be indifferent to the attention he's gets, but one thing is pretty certain, if it wasn't for Tiger they'd be making a lot less money today.

Originally Posted by BugDude

It is all my opinion, but I'm sure you will argue that my opinion is wrong.  When he first came into the golf scene, I was turned off by his cocky atitude in interviews.  "Great" players don't have to say it, they do it.  Is he a great golfer?  Yes, he is good at negotiating his way around a golf course.  That doesn't mean everyone likes him.

During his absence from golf and even his return, there have been many golf tournaments in which he was not even playing in and the commentators seemed to talk about him as much as the people actually playing in the tournament.  Disagree if you like, go back and watch some of the coverage.

I distinctly recall one tournament many years ago (sorry, I can't recall which one, date, or time) in which me and my golf buddies talked Monday about how much they showed Tiger and he wasn't even in contention.

My opinion is greatest GOLFER, overall, in the context of entire career.  Tiger was a couple years in and everyone was ready to make the proclamation...a career is a long time.  Just my opinion.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by BugDude

It is all my opinion, but I'm sure you will argue that my opinion is wrong.

Opinions can't be "wrong." Facts can be.

Originally Posted by BugDude

When he first came into the golf scene, I was turned off by his cocky atitude in interviews.

So you don't have any evidence to support the idea that he lacks reverence, or does so more than other players his age (or younger, or slightly older)?

Originally Posted by BugDude

During his absence from golf and even his return, there have been many golf tournaments in which he was not even playing in and the commentators seemed to talk about him as much as the people actually playing in the tournament.  Disagree if you like, go back and watch some of the coverage.

That's the thing. In no way at all do they show or talk about Tiger when he's not playing "as much as the people actually playing in the tournament." That's an outrageous claim and the bold word is critical.

You don't like Tiger Woods, or whatever, so you exaggerate things into outrageous hyperbole, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. These incidents stand out in your mind, and you focus on them, and they become much, much bigger in your mind than they were in reality.

[Zeph]

How does the amount of time announcers spend talking about Tiger make any difference to how you view Tiger? It's not like Tiger is calling them, asking to be talked about. He can't control what the media writes or talks about. He happens to be talked about a lot because he is the best player by far the last 15 years and definitely one of the best players through the history of this game.

[BugDude]

As I said in my previous post:

Originally Posted by BugDude

My general lack of fondness for Tiger came as much from the media as from him.

It certainly was not his fault, but I never said it was.  He rode the media up, and he also saw them come crashing down on him too.  That's just how the media is.  I also recall the interviews early on in which he made cocky statements.  It turned off many people, including other players.  Do some research for yourself, it was no secret.  He wasn't nearly as bad about it after the first several years on tour.  Perhaps some of his PR folks advised him or perhaps he matured a little bit.  Again, it is just my opinion based on having watched professional golf since the 1970s.  His attitude was more abrasive than other big players before him.  So what.  Some people like cocky sports figures and some people don't.  I prefer the humble giants of the game.  Ray Floyd, Tom Watson, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player.  Those are the people to me that epitomize class.

And I also recall the tournaments in which he was the topic of conversation even when he was either out of contention or not even playing.  Whether the topic of discussion was good or bad (his play, his personal indiscretions, his injuries, etc.).  Again, that's the media's fault, not his...but it doesn't make me feel any different.

The other issue is his temper and cussing.  He's getting paid lots of money to play golf and endorse products, and thanks to the media, he is also seen as a role model to kids (whether he volunteered for it or not).  Yet on live TV I have heard him drop GD and F-bombs many times with kids standing in the background just soaking it in.  Teaching a young generation of golfers to have a temper tantrum everytime they his a bad shot.  Just grow up.  He has been fined more by the tour than any other player for dropping cuss words on the air.  That is a fact.

So, my overall opinion of him is based on my observations over a long period of time.  It isn't about how many golf tournaments that he has or hasn't won...for me it is about the overall impression of him.  That's just my opinion.

Now, bash away all you want, debate the merits of my opinion, whatever.  My opinion of the person has not and will not change.  Just because he is good at hitting a little white ball doesn't mean I have to like him.  And there is a lot more to being a great golfer than your ability to score.  Actually, I started liking him when all of the crap hit the fan because the media wasn't pumping sunshine up everyone's rear about him.

[bplewis24]

During the final round of the tournament today, the announcers spent way too much time talking about Rory even though he wasn't even playing in the tournament.  They were all like, "if Luke Donald wins today, he could overtake Rory McIlroy for #1 in the world."  It was pissing me off.  I was all like, "hey, geniuses, McIlroy isn't even here!  Stop talking about him!"

And don't get me started on Keegan Bradley teaching a generation of golfers it's okay to spit all over the course and drop f-bombs every time you miss a 6-foot putt with your anchored putter.  These horrible role models coming up in golf today need to be dealt with.

Just more sarcasm, of course :)

Brandon

[newtogolf]

I'm sure Tiger will get blamed for teaching Keegan to spit on the greens.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

During the final round of the tournament today, the announcers spent way too much time talking about Rory even though he wasn't even playing in the tournament.  They were all like, "if Luke Donald wins today, he could overtake Rory McIlroy for #1 in the world."  It was pissing me off.  I was all like, "hey, geniuses, McIlroy isn't even here!  Stop talking about him!"

And don't get me started on Keegan Bradley teaching a generation of golfers it's okay to spit all over the course and drop f-bombs every time you miss a 6-foot putt with your anchored putter.  These horrible role models coming up in golf today need to be dealt with.

Just more sarcasm, of course :)

Brandon

[Chris E]

First time poster, though I've had an account for a couple of months. This looks like a good place to jump in.  You guys are funny.

Bugdude seems to be stuck in a do loop because he keeps writing the same thing over and over again. I think what Bugdude may be remembering is Tiger winning golf tournaments and then saying in interviews afterward he had his "C" game or something. I remember a dust up about that.

Anyway back on topic, he is gonna walk potentially 6 rounds of golf this week after straining his achilles 1 week ago?????

[brocks]

Opinions can't be "wrong."

Sure they can. People are entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be wrong, stupid, uninformed, or whatever. For example, "Black people should not be allowed to vote" is an opinion, not a fact. IMO it's still wrong.

[brocks]

Anyway back on topic, he is gonna walk potentially 6 rounds of golf this week after straining his achilles 1 week ago?????

Yeah, as I said before, that's just dumb. Some people here say he can't hurt it walking the course, but they have apparently never had a strained achilles. Walking up a hill, let alone climbing out of a bunker, is rougher on the achilles than training all day in the gym, as long as you are intelligent in your choice of exercises. Hopefully, Tiger has stopped doing the Olympic lift style training.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by brocks

Sure they can. People are entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean it can't be wrong, stupid, uninformed, or whatever.

For example, "Black people should not be allowed to vote" is an opinion, not a fact. IMO it's still wrong.

No, they can't. They can't be "wrong." Stupid? Sure. Uninformed, baseless, etc.? You bet. But "wrong"? No.

Facts can be right or wrong because there's a definitive answer. Opinions cannot. Point being you can say a lot of things about other people's opinions, but "you're wrong" isn't one of them.

And once again, if you and k-troop say can't ignore each other, you can both have a time out.

Now, back on topic:

Tiger would potentially play SEVEN days in a row because the pro-am is Wednesday.

[Chris E]

Originally Posted by brocks

Yeah, as I said before, that's just dumb. Some people here say he can't hurt it walking the course, but they have apparently never had a strained achilles. Walking up a hill, let alone climbing out of a bunker, is rougher on the achilles than training all day in the gym, as long as you are intelligent in your choice of exercises. Hopefully, Tiger has stopped doing the Olympic lift style training.

How "dumb" it is depends on how much he was hurt.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by iacas

No, they can't. They can't be "wrong." Stupid? Sure. Uninformed, baseless, etc.? You bet. But "wrong"? No.

Facts can be right or wrong because there's a definitive answer. Opinions cannot. Point being you can say a lot of things about other people's opinions, but "you're wrong" isn't one of them.

Interestingly enough (and off-topic, sorry), there is an analog to this in mathematical formal logic: the truth of a conditional statement ("if X then Y"). If the condition ("X") is true, then the statement is true if "Y" is true. However, if "X" is false, the statement is true regardless of "Y." The official technical term for such a statement is "vacuously true."

So if you consider an opinion to be the conclusion one draws from assumed facts, which isn't that much of a stretch, the only wrong opinions are ones that don't actually follow from the assumptions. If someone's got false facts, then their opinions are true. (And vacuous!)

[walk18]

It does strike me as a little odd for him to be back so soon and playing so much again. Took me over a year to truly heal from an Achilles injury. Mine was worse than mild, though. Either way, glad he's back, hope he stays back.

[topspin4hand]

I've torn my left Achilles as well as my left ACL (in consecutive years).  I will say that the Achilles is something that can flare up pretty badly one day and be fine in a couple days.  Now if I had the Masters in a few weeks ... then I'd definitely tone down my schedule some!  But generally speaking the Achilles is a funny body part and I laugh at people's comments about the legitimacy of an injury to it.  It's very similar to how football players laugh at fans' opinions on Turf Toe - until you've experienced it, you really have no idea.

Originally Posted by Chris E

Anyway back on topic, he is gonna walk potentially 6 rounds of golf this week after straining his achilles 1 week ago?????

[brocks]

No, they can't. They can't be "wrong." Stupid? Sure. Uninformed, baseless, etc.? You bet. But "wrong"? No.

So you're saying my opinion on that subject is wrong?

[brocks]

So if you consider an opinion to be the conclusion one draws from assumed facts, which isn't that much of a stretch, the only wrong opinions are ones that don't actually follow from the assumptions. If someone's got false facts, then their opinions are true. (And vacuous!)

The problem with your analogy is that people who are adamantly wrong in their opinions very seldom think their facts could be wrong, so they don't precede them with "if."

[bplewis24]

So, I sustained an acute back injury during this morning's workout and thus I am laid up at home on the couch so that I can ice/heat the area.  I didn't even realize Tiger was playing in the Tavistock Cup.  Good to see, but I'm surprised.  I'm pretty sure it's live so far because Bubba has the full pink-shaft driver, which I don't think he had last season.

Brandon