What would you do if you found the Thief?

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I completely agree. The victim might be called an idiot or careless for tempting someone, but they can't be held responsible for what tempts others and have no way of knowing beforehand. The thief has the burden of the moral choice and there are no mitigating factors to be considered. Either he performs the crime or not. Whether it's opportunistic or not is a moot point. The temptation might cause someone to decide to do the wrong thing, but it's still the wrong thing. He could find someone vulnerable who isn't paying attention or he could see someone with valuables who he could beat down and rob. In terms of the theft itself, the two are the same. (the assault is an additional matter) The thief sees an opportunity to take advantage and he does.

Correct moral choice:  Pick up the wedge and make a reasonable attempt to find the owner or turn it into the clubhouse. You're looking out for others and not trying to gain. Good on you.

Neutral moral choice:  Leave the wedge there and pretend you never saw it. If someone else steals it, fine. If the owner gets back to it, fine. You chose not to do a simple act of good, but resisted the temptation to steal. This is extremely passive and unfortunately common, and it's the wrong choice but not as bad as the next:

Dickish moral choice: You furtively pick up the wedge and neither turn it in nor say you've seen it. If confronted, you lie to people's faces. You gain one wedge for free. You justify it however you want, blame the victim, or consider it something you deserve or earned somehow. That person is out a bundle of dough and could have lost a club they valued greatly. But you don't care. Whether you get caught or not, you are a complete dick and clearly value a 50$ wedge over other, more important things. Plus, I don't justify the owner coming back and beating you to a pulp over this, because that's not the right thing to do either, but I'd like to point out that it's only a possibility if you take this choice. Hell, if you do the right thing, he'd probably buy you a drink or something. Maybe make a friend?

I agree that people should look out for their belongings and they have a responsibility to do so. However, gentlemen should be looking out for each other as well. See someone's ball they're looking for? Find a dropped club or glove? Wallet? Try to get it back to them, especially if you know who dropped it. Even if they play slow and don't show courtesy, sometimes showing an act of kindness will make them feel guilty and teach them a better lesson than causing trouble. I've served people who were being complete *******s at my old job but gave them the benefit of the doubt and gave them good service. Usually they would realize they were rude or that I was giving them particularly good service and change their attitude. It actually does people good when you go out of your way to be polite and changes them for the better.

How about if you unintentionally hit into a group ahead and not yell fore because they need to learn to pay attention? Or even do it on purpose to send them a message? That's a very typical incident on a golf course using the "blame the victim" justification. If you want to get back at them for showing poor etiquette or playing slow, you'd justify hitting into them as their own fault for pissing you off.

Maybe you're a redeemable human being if you kept a found club. But if you were judged by that decision alone, you would be a thief. There's no way to defend the choice at all.

Well said.  What did Rory's Dad say awhile back?  Something like "Its nice to be nice, and it does not cost anything."

[jamo]

Go to hell.

Well that's great. For the record, everyone, Moxie is not Zipazoid. I suspected as much, despite finding it odd that someone you knew would find your posts on a golf forum, create a profile to come to your defense, and not post in other threads, so I didn't say anything. But, there you go. If everything you said in[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/57633/what-would-you-do-if-you-found-the-thief/126#post_707750] this post i[/URL]s true, you probably won't get much objection.

[zipazoid]

I really don't give a rat's ass anymore. This thing has gotten so ridiculously out of hand that it shows a hell of a lot more about other posters & their proclivities than my opinion on what happens when you leave a club on the course.

Y'all believe whatever the hell you want. I'm a thief. I'm the antichrist. I create fake profiles just so I can agree with myself.

Whatever makes y'all feel better about yourselves.

[phillyk]

Boy, I like this topic.  Its one of the few I've found on TST that actually has 2 sides, with people coming with arguments that make sense.

I, however, will try to make the middle ground.  If I leave my wedge on the last hole and never find it, I will be pissed about it.  I will blame myself for being an idiot, and blame the person who took for being a dick.  If I leave my wedge on the last hole and do get it back, I will be relieved to know that someone did not take it and that they were polite and gave it to me.  Both situations, if you forgot to pick up your club, you freak out! That freaking out is you blaming yourself for being an idiot, regardless of the outcome.  I am in no way saying that if you lose it, you deserve to get it stolen.  But having it stolen is a possible outcome of the situation, regardless if you deserved it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by phillyk

Boy, I like this topic.  Its one of the few I've found on TST that actually has 2 sides, with people coming with arguments that make sense.

I, however, will try to make the middle ground.  If I leave my wedge on the last hole and never find it, I will be pissed about it.  I will blame myself for being an idiot, and blame the person who took for being a dick.  If I leave my wedge on the last hole and do get it back, I will be relieved to know that someone did not take it and that they were polite and gave it to me.  Both situations, if you forgot to pick up your club, you freak out! That freaking out is you blaming yourself for being an idiot, regardless of the outcome.  I am in no way saying that if you lose it, you deserve to get it stolen.  But having it stolen is a possible outcome of the situation, regardless if you deserved it.

A lot of people already said pretty much exactly what you just said there.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Answer for both:

If you leave your club on the course don't expect to see it again. If you do you lucked out.

Not at my club.

If I left it on the course I would expect to see it again and it wouldn't be because I lucked out.  It would be because of integrity.

[camper6]

Well, I found a putter in the woods, and a left-handed Ping B-60 at that! (I'm left-handed)

Did I turn that club in? No. Why? Because obviously someone chucked it into the woods in frustration & didn't bother to go looking for it.

That's not even a 'lost' club. That's a rejected club. Mine.

Well if it was me I wouldn't make that assumption.  I would turn it in and if it wasn't claimed after a reasonable time I would claim it as. Mine.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by camper6

Well, I found a putter in the woods, and a left-handed Ping B-60 at that! (I'm left-handed)

Did I turn that club in? No. Why? Because obviously someone chucked it into the woods in frustration & didn't bother to go looking for it.

That's not even a 'lost' club. That's a rejected club. Mine.

Well if it was me I wouldn't make that assumption.  I would turn it in and if it wasn't claimed after a reasonable time I would claim it as. Mine.

Yes we got that. You're constructed of superior moral fiber.

So now I'm being taken to task for keeping that putter I found on the woods. Think about that before y'all knee-jerkedly say yes... it was in the woods . Should I have also turned into the 20 or so balls I found over there?

No? Then where's the line drawn?

See, now I could play the game y'all have been doing with me. If you've ever found & kept a ball, shame on you! Crook.

Let he who is without sin (like Camper6 - they don't act like at at his club) cast the first stone.

[cliffj]

Lesson 1.. put name labels on all your clubs. Then there is NO excuse for someone not to return your club to you. Lesson 2.. drop spare clubs, putter head covers, at edge of green so you will have to pass it on way back to cart, bag, etc. or drop it on towel so it will be noticed. Lesson 3.. Remember others paid hard earned money for their clubs just like you did. Lesson 4.. Set a good example for your kids

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Let he who is without sin (like Camper6 - they don't act like at at his club) cast the first stone.

I put my phone number on all of my golf balls and expect anyone who finds the ones I lose a few feet off the fairway to contact me. I always offer to pay half the postage if they have more than a few.

If I find a tee I'll make every effort to find its owner.

I hand them in to the pro shop and expect them to make a sincere effort to locate the owners.

I have yet to have any given back to me after 90 days, so I am assuming that the pro and his assistants have reunited the tees with their owners.

I rest easy at night.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yes we got that. You're constructed of superior moral fiber.

So now I'm being taken to task for keeping that putter I found on the woods. Think about that before y'all knee-jerkedly say yes...it was in the woods. Should I have also turned into the 20 or so balls I found over there?

No? Then where's the line drawn?

See, now I could play the game y'all have been doing with me. If you've ever found & kept a ball, shame on you! Crook.

Let he who is without sin (like Camper6 - they don't act like at at his club) cast the first stone.

Yep you are being taken to task for keeping that putter and making an assumption that someone (rejected) it.  It doesn't take much moral fiber to figure that one out.  You have no idea how it got there.  The guy that lost it could have had it drop out of his bag and couldn't remember where he lost it and hoped that someone would turn it in at the end of the round if they found it.

Where is the line drawn with balls?

Well I am an old guy and in the old days we engraved our names on a ball and if someone found it they turned it in.

Balls that were not engraved had no chance of being turned in to the rightful owner but were placed on the counter in a glass bowl and were available for purchase.  Caddies looked for balls after the course was closed and they got tips for turning in golf balls that were engraved.

Now when it comes to balls, a ball is abandoned as lost after being searched for or not even looked for so I don't think many people are going to be standing in line at the pro shop waiting for a lost ball to be turned in.  They don't abandon clubs in the normal course of events.

But if it soothes your conscience, yes I am a thief.  I keep balls I find in the woods but if there is a name on it I give it back.  Anyone who engraves their name on a ball does it for a reason. It's identification and they expect it back.  That in your estimation is being careful and responsible is it not?

The look on someone's face when you give them something back that they thought was gone forever is worth the price of admission.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by Shorty

I put my phone number on all of my golf balls and expect anyone who finds the ones I lose a few feet off the fairway to contact me. I always offer to pay half the postage if they have more than a few.

If I find a tee I'll make every effort to find its owner.

I hand them in to the pro shop and expect them to make a sincere effort to locate the owners.

I have yet to have any given back to me after 90 days, so I am assuming that the pro and his assistants have reunited the tees with their owners.

I rest easy at night.

I have been golfing for over 50 years and have never seen a phone number on a golf ball. But it might be a great way to pick up chicks on  ladies night.

I hope they promote that idea.

I mean man if you want to be silly I can join in.

[Eleven]

This thread has gone places I would never have expected. 1 ban, flame wars, moral dilemmas...

I just found and bought a cheap putter head cover the other day, and I love it. Sure enough I forgot to put it back on, and it fell off the bag. I noticed at the next green and sent my son back to the previous green to look for it (He was riding, I was walking, Lazy 25 year old).

The foursome behind us found it and one of them was on their way up to us to deliver the cover. Then I laughed when I thought of this thread :)

[wolfsburg2]

I'd hope that this issue is something I'd never have to debate with my kids. I'll ingrain in them good etiquette and moral fiber! Justifying the theft is almost as bad as just being a thief. If yo ufind something of value that isn't yours you leave it where it was left (fringe) so the owner can retrieve it or you try to find them. This is so cut and dry. Lost golf balls are a non-issue. Don't steal a ball that may be in play. Truly lost balls have no chance of finding their owner again.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by jamo

Who cares? You don't need to take it upon yourself to teach other people a lesson, you're just a rationalizing a way to keep the club and make it seem like you're on the moral high ground.

You couldn't be more wrong.  I do not advocate keeping anything that doesn't belong to you.  However, there are those in society that do.

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

It is getting harder and harder to tell who is being sarcastic.

I'm hoping that Tomboys post is sarcastic and some sort of distorted Ayn Rand morality statement.

See above.  The gist of my post was to point out personal accountability as it applies to behavioral modification.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by FHopper

When people ask me if I have seen their club, (and I have), I tell them it is where they left it. I never pick up a club, I don't think anyone helps anybody by picking a club up.

That is a HUUUUGE pet peeve of mine!! Dude............PICK IT UP!!.......please with  no iffs ands or butts....

If you see it, pick it up for Gods sake so you can give it to the guy who lost it when he comes asking for it.   More often than not, the guy will double back when he realizes he lost the club within 1 or 2 holes.   Telling the guy..... "yea, I saw it.......you need to drive back 2 holes because I left it laying next to the green" ........... is not cool.

If nobody comes asking for it, turn it into the pro-shop when you finish the round because that's the first place they will look.  Leaving the club lay is just plain rude...not to mention opening the door for thieves to keep it........is that what you want to be done with your prized wedge? ...to leave it lay there?  Or......would you prefer the group behind give it to you so you don't have to trek backwards 1/2 mile and make everyone in your group wait while you chase the club you carelessly left laying on the ground?  (shakes head)

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

If you lost it then its finders keepers.  Now, if someone STOLE it and it has some kind of markings that proves that its your's, then thats something very different and Id pull the person aside, tell them that you know they stole your wedge, that you can prove it and that if they dont give it back to you then you are going to turn them in to the police for it.

Yikes....watch out for this thief.  He won't be returning any clubs to the pro shop......

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Alan Conroy

I agree, finders keepers. I have acquired at least 10 clubs this way, mainly wedges and the odd putter. I always go home to my wife and tell her that I found a great new club today. If you lose it and I find it, my gain your loss. Fairs fair.

It's nice to see the low class slime this thread is directed to..........is represented above