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Is it really all about the long ball ??


inthehole
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There's one worse feeling than hitting a terrible drive. It's hitting a drive 300 yards down the middle of the fairway, then blading or chunking the subsequent approach shot.

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Chicks dig the long ball! But yeah, I never really had a problem with distance. I'm a big guy with a fairly quick swing, so I can get the ball out there. Struggled for a while with poor accuracy off the driver though. I've gone through some swing tweaks the past year and a half to try to correct it. Haven't lost much in distance, only a few yards, but I'm hitting many more fairways and much fewer OB or adjacent fairways. Hitting it long is great, but if you have to hit your approach from the trees, or deep rough, or worse...its no fun.

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How much distance would you give up for accuracy? Would you be happy driving it 200 if it got your fairways up to 90%? At 280 you are a long hitter (except on the internet. Then your a shorty). On most 6700 yard course you will have a mid iron or less on par 4s and will be able to hit short wedges into any par 5. Change that around to hitting it 230 and instead of pulling the 7  or 8 ironiron (for something like 430 par 4), you are looking at a  3 iron or a hybrid. That is a much tougher shot.

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Gaining distance is harder than gaining accuracy IMO

I hit it O.K 280ish - sometimes 250, sometimes 300.

But I would rather work on accuracy than trying to hit it further ( with control )

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

http://thesandtrap.com/t/57470/how-would-you-play-this-shot-if-you-were-me

Kudos for finding another way, but some guys just can't accept having to hit driver, 3-wood, wedge into par 4s.

Fair enough, but that other thread you referenced pertains to the longest of long par 4's & looking back, was probably the reason I was overswinging & getting frustrated - just didn't know how to approach that length on a par 4 hole.

John

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Originally Posted by Precis1on

There's one worse feeling than hitting a terrible drive. It's hitting a drive 300 yards down the middle of the fairway, then blading or chunking the subsequent approach shot.

What's even worse is hitting it 220 yards down the middle then chunking or blading it.

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Originally Posted by x129

How much distance would you give up for accuracy? Would you be happy driving it 200 if it got your fairways up to 90%? At 280 you are a long hitter (except on the internet. Then your a shorty). On most 6700 yard course you will have a mid iron or less on par 4s and will be able to hit short wedges into any par 5. Change that around to hitting it 230 and instead of pulling the 7  or 8 ironiron (for something like 430 par 4), you are looking at a  3 iron or a hybrid. That is a much tougher shot.

I would take distance over accuracy any day.

I can work on my accuracy....working to gain distance is a lot harder.

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Originally Posted by Kieran123

I would take distance over accuracy any day.

I can work on my accuracy....working to gain distance is a lot harder.


agree.

I was a short hitter, I re-worked my technique and now hit it long.

way more fun.

Robert Something

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I went the other way.  I used to hit it long, but couldn't hit a fairway to save my life.  Then the recovery shot, then the shot into the green.  I cut my driver down, switched to a slower, more controlled swing that only goes 240ish, but I can hit 70% of the fairways and even my misses usually aren't that bad anymore, when before I would be hoping I could find the ball.

I haven't been keeping an accurate handicap this year, but I have made many breakthroughs simply from having a 2nd shot nearly ever hole.  I had 4 pars and 1 birdie in the last 9 that I played and have never done that before.

I can still crank one out 260-270 if I want to, but then there's the chance that it won't be in play when it lands.  240 from the fairway has been much better for my game than 270 from the trees.  I guess if you play on huge, wide fairways without trouble then bombing it every time may be acceptable, but my home course severely punishes you if you get a little wild off the tee.

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Kind of depends on the courses you have access to I think.  For most of the reasonably priced public courses I play in New England a 240-270 yard drive is enough.  So it isn't about the long ball it's about calculating the club that will hopefully leave a 100-145 yard approach shot.  Most holes are doglegs of some sort cut through dense brush/forest and fitting a 300+ yard drive in just doesn't seem practical (if even possible).  Obviously there are exceptions to this where a 300+ yard drive might be an advantage if the approach shot can be played to inside reasonable birdie range (a big if in my experience).

I would rather hit a 170 yard drive on a severe dog leg and leave 200 or more yards in than to challenge bending one around the corner and have it bend early and go into the woods or not bend enough and go through on the other side.  In that respect being able to reliably hit a long ball off the deck would be a huge advantage, the longer the better. Same for par fives, I think having a reliable long ball off the deck would be a huge advantage.

Quote:

Chicks dig the long ball!

I think they dig the high hard one that seems to stay in the air forever more.

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

Didn't have a choice, after I hit 50, I started to lose distance on all of my clubs, but my handicap has not suffered.  I can still get up and down from anywhere.

I'm hoping that by improving my technique as I get older I can offset the losses, maybe even after 50 and possibly 60 as well.  Obviously at some point the curve has to reverse and go the other way but I think I have almost unlimited potential for improving my swing mechanics as a starting point.

Mike

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You have to be reasonably long if you are going to score well on longish courses.

It's all very well to talk about hitting par 5s in 2 and hitting short irons into par 4s, when the par 5s are 420 yards and the par 4s are between 220 and 400 yards.

A par 5 on the average "ordinary" course is a short par 4 for the pros.

If you've only ever played short courses or easier tees, you're in for a shock when you play a longish course. You won't be able to hit more than one or two par 4s in two, and you might be hitting hybrids into them.  You won't be able to get within 150 yards of a decent length par 5 in two. You might not even be long enough to reach it in 3 with three of your longest shots.

Short hitting is fine if you are happy to play bogey golf - which most people should be.

Don't be fooled into thinking that short hitting can get you around a lengthy course because it can't.

This is why guys like Dan in the Dan Plan could never ever ever become a serious single figure golfer. He does not have an athletic move which would ever make him a long hitter, amongst other things.  Breaking 80 on a sub 6000 yard course might not be as good as 99 on a serious track.

And - 270 yards is plenty long. 250 is plenty long. Problem is, many people who think they hit it 250 are doing it on rock hard fairways or are actually hitting it 190.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

You have to be reasonably long if you are going to score well on longish courses.

It's all very well to talk about hitting par 5s in 2 and hitting short irons into par 4s, when the par 5s are 420 yards and the par 4s are between 220 and 400 yards.

A par 5 on the average "ordinary" course is a short par 4 for the pros.

If you've only ever played short courses or easier tees, you're in for a shock when you play a longish course. You won't be able to hit more than one or two par 4s in two, and you might be hitting hybrids into them.  You won't be able to get within 150 yards of a decent length par 5 in two. You might not even be long enough to reach it in 3 with three of your longest shots.

Short hitting is fine if you are happy to play bogey golf - which most people should be.

Don't be fooled into thinking that short hitting can get you around a lengthy course because it can't.

This is why guys like Dan in the Dan Plan could never ever ever become a serious single figure golfer. He does not have an athletic move which would ever make him a long hitter, amongst other things.  Breaking 80 on a sub 6000 yard course might not be as good as 99 on a serious track.

And - 270 yards is plenty long. 250 is plenty long. Problem is, many people who think they hit it 250 are doing it on rock hard fairways or are actually hitting it 190.

From personal experience, I would say with a decent iron game, 240-250 yard average drives on a 6300-6500 yard course will typically be plenty long enough to be hitting 7 iron or better into most Par 4's, which would seem to average 360-400 yards.  If I am hitting 7 iron or better into most greens (considering a decent drive and whether I hit the green or not is a different story), throw in the occasional longer Par 4, and I'm usually having a fun round of golf that's challenging but not punishing.  My home course is 6400 yards from the middle tees, and as long as I'm hitting 230-240 off the tee, I'm in good shape to score well.  When I have played from the rear tees which are 7001 yards, I feel the pain and my 240 yards off the tee is just not enough for about half of the Par 4's.  I don't want to hit 4 and 5 irons into the greens when I hit a decent drive on a Par 4.

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Shorty hit it on the head.  Guys (like me) that can't hit drives 250+ are destined to be bogey golfers on most decent length courses.  I've played some courses where the water hazards are designed to penalize short hitters forcing them to lay up on their 2nd shot on long par 4's.  I can hit my irons pretty accurately from 140 yards in, but my chances of hitting a green with a 3h or 4i are pretty slim.  Even if you do hit the green in regulation it's not usually in a position that makes it an easy 2 putt.

At 46 years old and 22+ handicap I'm content to get to a slightly better than bogey golfer level but if I had to do it over I'd rather hit it long and work on my accuracy so I'd have a shot at singe digit handicap on average length courses.

Originally Posted by Shorty

You have to be reasonably long if you are going to score well on longish courses.

It's all very well to talk about hitting par 5s in 2 and hitting short irons into par 4s, when the par 5s are 420 yards and the par 4s are between 220 and 400 yards.

A par 5 on the average "ordinary" course is a short par 4 for the pros.

If you've only ever played short courses or easier tees, you're in for a shock when you play a longish course. You won't be able to hit more than one or two par 4s in two, and you might be hitting hybrids into them.  You won't be able to get within 150 yards of a decent length par 5 in two. You might not even be long enough to reach it in 3 with three of your longest shots.

Short hitting is fine if you are happy to play bogey golf - which most people should be.

Don't be fooled into thinking that short hitting can get you around a lengthy course because it can't.

This is why guys like Dan in the Dan Plan could never ever ever become a serious single figure golfer. He does not have an athletic move which would ever make him a long hitter, amongst other things.  Breaking 80 on a sub 6000 yard course might not be as good as 99 on a serious track.

And - 270 yards is plenty long. 250 is plenty long. Problem is, many people who think they hit it 250 are doing it on rock hard fairways or are actually hitting it 190.

Joe Paradiso

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It definetly is all about the long ball.  If you can bomb your drives at least 250 yards out into the fairway it makes the hole play a lot easier.  Also, that farther you hit the ball the more lofted club you can hit into a green and the better chance you have of holding that green.

I dont care how good your shortgame is, if you are only hitting 200 yard drives you arent going to make par or better on par 5s very often.

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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

It definetly is all about the long ball.  If you can bomb your drives at least 250 yards out into the fairway it makes the hole play a lot easier.  Also, that farther you hit the ball the more lofted club you can hit into a green and the better chance you have of holding that green.

I dont care how good your shortgame is, if you are only hitting 200 yard drives you arent going to make par or better on par 5s very often.

WHY?

average par 5 - 510yards

Drive 200 yards

3 wood 170-180 yards

thats 130 yards left to go, with 3 shots in hand its like playing a par 4?

9i/8i to green and hopefully leave a birdie chance if not a good par opportunity

and if you happen to have a really good short game then birdie is quite realistic

EAGLES - on the other hand will be left down to fluke/lap of the gods if a short hitter is never on the green in two

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I hit the ball a reasonable distance... not as far as I would like but I'd much rather be hitting 270 and be up the middle, for example than bombing it 320+ and not knowing if I'm going to put it in play or not.

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Originally Posted by carpediem4300

WHY?

average par 5 - 510yards

Drive 200 yards

3 wood 170-180 yards

thats 130 yards left to go, with 3 shots in hand its like playing a par 4?

9i/8i to green and hopefully leave a birdie chance if not a good par opportunity

and if you happen to have a really good short game then birdie is quite realistic

EAGLES - on the other hand will be left down to fluke/lap of the gods if a short hitter is never on the green in two

Exactly, kind of the same with Part 4's.  I play with an old man that can't hit the ball over 180 yards, 150 is more the average, and he is a single digit handicap playing from the middle tees, not the seniors.  His game on a 380 yard par 4 goes like this:

180 yard drive

150 yard fairway wood (usually a 7 Wood)

Wedge to 4 or 5 ft.

Usually one putt in the hole

Don't discount the short game.  This old guy whoops me on a 6400 yard course from the same set of tees, because he's on auto-pilot.  If he's making a birdie, it's on a Par 3, but you can bet he'll be putting for par on most holes.

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This turned out to be a great discussion.      I think we medium length hitters need to be better with our long irons & woods than the guys that bomb it off the tee.    We're obviously faced with a longer second shot, but if we can get a 3h or 4iron close enough for a realistic up and down, I think it's entirely possible to be far better than a bogey golfer as Shorty suggested.     Granted, the birdie opportunities for the shorter hitters aren't as many, but if we work on keeping it in play off the tee, good long irons & a tight short game, I don't see why we can't give the bombers a run who'll be inevitably chasing more 2nd shots from the rough... after all, on a longer par 4, I'd much rather have a 185 yard 2nd shot in from the fairway than a 140 yard in from the rough.

John

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Look at the LPGA tour for an example of how on a 6500 yard cours to see how people that can drive it 240 can shoot 2 under.

As far as 140 from the rough versus 185 from the fair way, unless the rough is really bad I will take the 145 all day long.  Pulling a 7 or 8 iron versus a 4 iron is huge as far as my accuracy and ability to make solid contact. YMMV

Originally Posted by inthehole

This turned out to be a great discussion.      I think we medium length hitters need to be better with our long irons & woods than the guys that bomb it off the tee.    We're obviously faced with a longer second shot, but if we can get a 3h or 4iron close enough for a realistic up and down, I think it's entirely possible to be far better than a bogey golfer as Shorty suggested.     Granted, the birdie opportunities for the shorter hitters aren't as many, but if we work on keeping it in play off the tee, good long irons & a tight short game, I don't see why we can't give the bombers a run who'll be inevitably chasing more 2nd shots from the rough... after all, on a longer par 4, I'd much rather have a 185 yard 2nd shot in from the fairway than a 140 yard in from the rough.

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