Feherty Packing Heat

[Stretch]

"Ah Jaysus, I just shot me knob off!"

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

And every year ~12k gun owners kill someone else. Is that a small percentage? Sure but that is still a lot of people.  It may or may not be a right.

That stat is only even close to being relevant if you count criminals as "gun owners."

So you're starting with "a small percentage," then removing, what, 95% of those numbers because some inner-city hoodlum shot the guy his ex-girlfriend began sleeping with, or some guy on his drug crew, etc.? Gun crime is nowhere near as widespread as people think even if you include the types of economic gun violence that exists.

Canada has a pretty high gun ownership rate. Gun ownership laws are not to blame. This becomes blatantly clear to criminologists and people who study the issue. It's an economic problem.

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

if a person cannot dream of a never never laalala land then surely they are stuck in the repetative routine of never thinking about better things, and jsut accepting the way things are and thats how they are staying? Imagine if martin luther king thought that,.......and never bothered lobbying for anti-racism,.............

Getting rid of racism isn't even close to being on the same level. Dreaming of things that are simply not going to happen in your lifetime (or your kids' lifetimes) is a waste of time, energy, effort. It solves nothing and provides nothing.

[carpediem4300]

but it also doesnt cost me nothing,.......

were not going to resolve the "global warming" issue in my life time, our kids lifetime even,...yet thousands of people dream of it and are trying to do it

to say it will never happen so dont bother dreaming about it is ridiculous,.....thats like saying "oh crap ive got terminal cancer, but i aint gunna dream about surviving it cus it aint gunna happen"

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Stretch

"Ah Jaysus, I just shot me knob off!"

That is funny.

I remember in the late 90's, Feherty was part of an exhibition to open a private course that was redesigned. He was warming up and miked up. He held up his hand and said "Notice the bandage on my hand. It is quite painful. Went hunting and it was my first time with a shotgun. Well, I got my finger stuck between the trigger and the guard when it went off - and I almost decapitated my finger (or thumb)."

He played 9 holes during the exhibition and had great game.

[phillyk]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

And how many people lost their driver's license during that time? I would bet my Scotty Cameron that it was a higher percentage. Should we ban cars?

Where is "There"? I guess violence only occurs in bad neighborhoods right?

So all victims of violent crime were giving the perpetrators a reason to harm them? You are probably the same guy that thinks if a girl wears a short miniskirt that she is asking to get raped.

This shows how ignorant you are about this entire argument. Its a concealed carry permit, the whole reason you have one is so people don't know you are carrying a gun! Anyone who announces they are carrying a gun to another person is a total idiot.

Well Hallelujah!  phillyk has found the answer to staying safe in today's society! All we have to do is ignore and pretend we don't know the guy robbing, stabbing and/or shooting us and he will certainly go away! Geez, why didn't I think of that. And to think all this time I have been carrying this heavy gun around!?

I grew up in the bad neighborhood where people were getting shot nearly everyday.  I walk around town and you have the thugs trying to talk you down and get you to peel before them just for something to do with their lives.  They look for people who look scared, because when you're scared, it gives them the sign that you're weak.  I have never been sought for, because I walk with heart and awareness, ignoring the people who you know could hurt you.  If you walk right past them just as you walked towards them, they are only pecks of dust on the street. Violence happens everywhere, and if carrying gives you the courage to walk past them, then do so.  I won't say that all people are giving the thugs a reason to harm them, because some people don't care who you are when they are desperate.  But, by not giving them a reason proves you can handle yourself, and there's less of a chance they'll come for you.

When the thugs do sense that fear and come for you, carrying may be a good thing.  But what then? I want to know what happens, seriously.  You may not know whether they have a gun or just their fists.  You can't shoot to kill them just because they punch you.  Best thing in this situation, kick them in the balls and run.

NM Golf, i feel like you're the person who'd walk up to a big black guy thinking he's gonna kill you and take your money.  By what you said, it sounds like you're always fearful that someone might hurt you.  What a way to live...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

but it also doesnt cost me nothing,.......

were not going to resolve the "global warming" issue in my life time, our kids lifetime even,...yet thousands of people dream of it and are trying to do it

to say it will never happen so dont bother dreaming about it is ridiculous,.....thats like saying "oh crap ive got terminal cancer, but i aint gunna dream about surviving it cus it aint gunna happen"

You and I apparently live in a very different reality.

I think on the scale of things, "all guns everywhere disappear off the face of the earth and nobody ever owns a gun again" is much closer to "just plain waste of time" than "maybe I'll survive cancer" or "we can reduce global warming."

Especially since, you know, we have had people who survive cancer and we can actually do things to reduce the causes and effects of global warming.

If it doesn't cost you nothing, what does it cost you?

Originally Posted by phillyk

You can't shoot to kill them just because they punch you.

Pretty much every state allows for the use of lethal force when someone is committing a felony.

I'm not saying a punch is felony assault.

[carpediem4300]

i didnt say all guns,...ifnact in one of my first posts i said i wanted law enforcement only to have guns,...so i dont see where you're reasoning for that is?

yes we have cancer survivors,....and survivors who are told its terminal,....they dreamt about surviving, it happened,....

It doesnt cost me a cent,......2 seconds of thought perhaps? its stored in my memory banks as an "yeah that'd be nice one day"

the real thing im getting at away from the whole yes/no gun thing is your attitude towards having a dream and saying its a waste of energy,.....cus it obviously isnt is it?

Whoever first said "i want to go to the moon",...was probably told it would never happen, dont waste your time,....that happened

whoever first said " i want to jump out a plane with no parachute and land and survive" was called an idiot,...that happened yesterday over oxfordshire

i could keep going,.......but pretty much for every dream or want a person has ever had, they would of been told to give it up cus it wont happen,...and invariably it will happen

one day we will live on mars,.....people been banging on about that for decades,....and many people are naysayers,.....i bet it still happen,....eventually

[iacas]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

i didnt say all guns,...ifnact in one of my first posts i said i wanted law enforcement only to have guns,...so i dont see where you're reasoning for that is?

All guns means criminals won't have guns. If guns exist, criminals will have them. You're dreaming of an impossibility. Guns - or whatever they become - are here to stay.

Going to the moon, changing global warming, even CURING cancer aren't impossible.

Absurdity is not really the topic here, so let's get back to that now, please.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

i didnt say all guns,...ifnact in one of my first posts i said i wanted law enforcement only to have guns,...so i dont see where you're reasoning for that is?

yes we have cancer survivors,....and survivors who are told its terminal,....they dreamt about surviving, it happened,....

It doesnt cost me a cent,......2 seconds of thought perhaps? its stored in my memory banks as an "yeah that'd be nice one day"

the real thing im getting at away from the whole yes/no gun thing is your attitude towards having a dream and saying its a waste of energy,.....cus it obviously isnt is it?

Whoever first said "i want to go to the moon",...was probably told it would never happen, dont waste your time,....that happened

whoever first said " i want to jump out a plane with no parachute and land and survive" was called an idiot,...that happened yesterday over oxfordshire

i could keep going,.......but pretty much for every dream or want a person has ever had, they would of been told to give it up cus it wont happen,...and invariably it will happen

one day we will live on mars,.....people been banging on about that for decades,....and many people are naysayers,.....i bet it still happen,....eventually

[JCoop]

Quote:

Anywho, a question to the gun owners, what type of ammo do you pack? i dont know alot about ammo apart from there are different calibers and some are hollowpoint and some arent,......i know a hollow point mushrooms on impact and rattles around a bit causing serious damage,...and others dont i suppose -------I only ask as watching the trial of anders breivik and hearing how several of the survivors where shot multiple times in the chest/face/legs etc,....just curious

Ammo is a complex topic. We're generally talking about handgun ammo in this thread so we'll stick to that. In general, most defensive handgun ammo rolls along around 750-1100 feet per second (fps). This is far slower than rifle ammo, which can exceed 4000fps in extreme cases. This difference in velocity changes bullet behavior dramatically.

Current FBI guidelines indicate that a penetration into tissue simulant geletin targets of 12.5 to 14" is ideal. With slow handgun ammo and the clogging effect of clothing, this depth isn't always achieved, especially with hollow point ammo. Full metal jacket ammo (sometimes called "hardball") tends to be more effective in achieving penetration though some worry about over-penetration and objects behind the intended target.

Now, to clear up a common fallacy, there really is no such thing as a "man-stopper" or the much bally-hooed "one shot kill" unless you get lucky. The most common reasons a wound stops an attacker are 1) blood loss (this takes a long time), 2) Central nervous system damage (brain, spinal cord - this is pretty quick) and 3) skeletal support system (hips, legs, etc). Only #s 2 and 3 are generally effective but are difficult to achieve in stress-fire situations, hence many instructors recommend a triple tap - 2 rounds to the center of mass and one to the head, if possible.

Given the small internal targets and slow velocity of handgun ammo, hollow point rounds are really not all that effective. This is especially true since bullet expansion is based on velocity, which handgun ammo lacks. But you're unlikely to hear this from most common media pundits.

[carpediem4300]

Back on topic,...i dont think feherty is really all there, nor has much of a reason to carry,....but his choice i guess

[x129]

What would call someone that owns a gun? I call them a gun owner.  There are very few random murders out there. Most are guys killing their wives/GF(rarely the other way) and most of the rest are drug gangs shooting each other up.

If you look at the various states, there is pretty much zero correlation between gun ownership and violent crime.  If you a concealed weapon fan, you point out that when states passed these laws, violent crime drop 30%. If you are opposed to them, you point out the states that didn't pass them also dropped 30%.

My understanding is that in a lot of countries including Canada, people own guns but not handguns. How that effects crime rates and gun violence I have no clue.

Originally Posted by iacas

That stat is only even close to being relevant if you count criminals as "gun owners."

So you're starting with "a small percentage," then removing, what, 95% of those numbers because some inner-city hoodlum shot the guy his ex-girlfriend began sleeping with, or some guy on his drug crew, etc.? Gun crime is nowhere near as widespread as people think even if you include the types of economic gun violence that exists.

Canada has a pretty high gun ownership rate. Gun ownership laws are not to blame. This becomes blatantly clear to criminologists and people who study the issue. It's an economic problem.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by x129

What would call someone that owns a gun? I call them a gun owner.

But the point being that the criminals he's referring to are going to own a gun whether it is legal or not.  So you can't really include those in the stats for how much less gun violence we are going to have if we get rid of guns because we are never going to get rid of those guns.

Or something along those lines.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

But back on topic,...i dont think feherty is really all there, nor has much of a reason to carry,....but his choice i guess

I think Feherty was sending up the idea of "carrying". He was joking.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Shorty

I think Feherty was sending up the idea of "carrying". He was joking.

I do too. He was being sarcastic.

[x129]

Depends on what murderer we are talking about. The guy that murders his wife/girlfriend (about 3k a year in the stats I have seen) might see a significant drop. Of course instead of gun violence we might end up with knife or baseball bat violence.  It is hard to say what a total gun/ammo ban would do. Obviously if one state does it and another doesn't, it is a pretty useless ban given how transparent state borders all. And yeah it would take 50+ years to work through the stores that are out there.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

But the point being that the criminals he's referring to are going to own a gun whether it is legal or not.  So you can't really include those in the stats for how much less gun violence we are going to have if we get rid of guns because we are never going to get rid of those guns.

Or something along those lines.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I grew up in the bad neighborhood where people were getting shot nearly everyday.  I walk around town and you have the thugs trying to talk you down and get you to peel before them just for something to do with their lives.  They look for people who look scared, because when you're scared, it gives them the sign that you're weak.  I have never been sought for, because I walk with heart and awareness, ignoring the people who you know could hurt you.  If you walk right past them just as you walked towards them, they are only pecks of dust on the street. Violence happens everywhere, and if carrying gives you the courage to walk past them, then do so.  I won't say that all people are giving the thugs a reason to harm them, because some people don't care who you are when they are desperate.  But, by not giving them a reason proves you can handle yourself, and there's less of a chance they'll come for you.

Huh? What are you talking about? Your post is borderline incoherent, and totally off the mark from anything I have said on this thread.

Originally Posted by phillyk

When the thugs do sense that fear and come for you, carrying may be a good thing.  But what then? I want to know what happens, seriously.  You may not know whether they have a gun or just their fists.  You can't shoot to kill them just because they punch you.  Best thing in this situation, kick them in the balls and run.

First you attempt to not put yourself in this situation by using your intelligence and being aware of your surroundings at all times. So actually the best thing in your ridiculous situation is to not be in that situation in the first place.

"There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself." -Dave Grossman On Killing

So being aware of your surroundings is the #1 thing someone can do to avoid situations that require using a firearm in defense of themselves.

But if it is unavoidable here are the conditions to use a gun.

You are justified in to necessary use of deadly force when there is reasonable fear of immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or serious bodily injury to the innocent. An assailant must demonstrate ability and opportunity for someone to be in immediate jeopardy.

Ability= Gun, knife, club, greater numbers, huge size difference

Opportunity= They are able to get to you before you will have the chance to remove yourself from the situation.

FWIW- That dip George Zimmerman did not have either of these, by the way, which is why he will probably be spending some time in prison.

Originally Posted by phillyk

NM Golf, i feel like you're the person who'd walk up to a big black guy thinking he's gonna kill you and take your money.  By what you said, it sounds like you're always fearful that someone might hurt you.  What a way to live...

Well I feel like you have a screw or two loose, a chip on your shoulder, and you sound like your about 18 years old which makes you completely clueless on how the world works.  I am not fearful at all but I am aware of my surroundings at all times.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

But if it is unavoidable here are the conditions to use a gun.

You are justified in to necessary use of deadly force when there is reasonable fear of immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or serious bodily injury to the innocent. An assailant must demonstrate ability and opportunity for someone to be in immediate jeopardy.

Ability= Gun, knife, club, greater numbers, huge size difference

Opportunity= They are able to get to you before you will have the chance to remove yourself from the situation.

FWIW- That dip George Zimmerman did not have either of these, by the way, which is why he will probably be spending some time in prison.

Would having someone straddling your prone body, bashing your head on the sidewalk, be justification?