2012 British Open Discussion Thread

[mlf16507]

Congrats to Realed for winning he Open contest.  With 2 holes to go ,I was ready to make plane reservations from Erie,PA to Las Vegas!  Adam Scott has the same problem as I have.  He can't score at the end of a tournament with one hand on his throat!!!  Oh well, only a few more weeks to the PGA.

[DocWu1948]

One image from the TV coverage .... I even backed up my cable box (it can go back about 2 minutes) to make sure I saw what I saw. It was after the turn, and Stevie is seen drinking a bottle of water. He passes it to Scott, who proceeds to take a swig out of the same bottle.  Yuck! I gotta think ... Scott was so focused on his tee shot, he wasn't thinking and neither was his caddie? I've seen Tiger pull sandwiches out of his bag on TV.. There's got to be more than one bottle of water left. Anyone else rmember this?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mlf16507

Congrats to Realed for winning he Open contest.  With 2 holes to go ,I was ready to make plane reservations from Erie,PA to Las Vegas!  Adam Scott has the same problem as I have.  He can't score at the end of a tournament with one hand on his throat!!!  Oh well, only a few more weeks to the PGA.

I was ready to send you a "Congrats" pm.  Weren't you also close in another recent contest?

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by brocks

Unless by "we" you mean you and your wife, you are mistaken. I have my doubts, and so did the rules guy in the booth who actually saw what happened, as opposed to the guy who made the ruling after getting a very sketchy description of what happened. IMO any intelligent person would have at least some doubt, and according to the rules, some doubt is all you need for a penalty. That is not intended as a shot at you; it is my general opinion on the subject.

I have no doubt whatever that you are wrong about that. It is very, very common for some subtle motion to cause a cascade effect that results in macro-motion several seconds or even minutes later. When you are talking about a tangled mass of long grass, it's impossible to predict how fast a disturbance might propagate.

Personally, I would not be "virtually certain" that Scott didn't cause the ball to move if it had taken seven minutes. I honestly don't see how anyone could say he's sure that Scott played no part in its motion when it took seven seconds.

And note that it doesn't have to be the club that causes the ball to move. Watch Scott stomping up to the ball and tell me you have no doubt that he had nothing to do with it moving:

Of course Scott caused the ball to move.  He hit the ball to that location.  If he hadn't, then it wouldn't have been there.  If it hadn't been there, then it couldn't have moved.  Ergo, he made it move.

Seriously?  Macro motion?  What if he tells a really funny joke, the gallery laughs, some guy drops a hot dog, which startles a squirrel, who runs by the ball, and then four seconds later the ball moves.  Can you be "virtually certain" that Scott didn't cause the ball to move?

[utztech]

Originally Posted by DocWu1948

One image from the TV coverage .... I even backed up my cable box (it can go back about 2 minutes) to make sure I saw what I saw. It was after the turn, and Stevie is seen drinking a bottle of water. He passes it to Scott, who proceeds to take a swig out of the same bottle.  Yuck! I gotta think ... Scott was so focused on his tee shot, he wasn't thinking and neither was his caddie? I've seen Tiger pull sandwiches out of his bag on TV.. There's got to be more than one bottle of water left. Anyone else rmember this?

I saw that too and thought it was gross as well.  They need to raise the purses on tour so Adam Scott can afford his own bottle of water.

[utztech]

I am glad Adam Scott lost.  I can't take that putter or his super wide putting stance.  Is it just me or does he look like he is ready for a full-cavity search when he is putting.

[brocks]

I saw that too and thought it was gross as well.  They need to raise the purses on tour so Adam Scott can afford his own bottle of water.

I wonder if that's the reason Stevie got so mad when he found out about Tiger's off-course exploits?

[Hundizzal]

I for one am just sick of all the Tiger talk period.  I am a big fan,  He has messed up.  To me it is his mental game that is suspect these days... He's proven he can win with many swing types and shot types.   What makes me mad is that people in the industry keep throwing jabs and focusing on the negatives.   He has won 3 times this year.  finished decent in majors, has a better year going than any other golfer and announcers and anylists and such keep harping on him.   I bet most of of the guys on tour would trade their current year for his right now.   The reason I am going off on this is really a comment that was made by announcers on day 2 or three about Adam Scott.  They said that he is winning using Tiger's coach, Tiger's Swing and Tiger's Caddie.   Well that just proves just how good Tiger was because you give a guy all the same tools and what has he done.  Not done anything remotely enough to even hold Tiger's jock... lol   And I hate that long putter with a passion...    /rant  :)

[GaryH]

I feel for Adam Scott, he's a nice guy, and was outstanding tee-to-green, but i'm not sure someone using that putter deserves to win.  Mind you, the same could be said about Ernie and his belly putter, albeit to a slightly lesser extent.  However, i'm pleased for Ernie, nice to see him notch another major.

Tiger still hasn't worked out how to hit driver.  This is very poor from such a great player in my opinion.

Thanks to G-Mac coming in each way i broke even.  Lee Westwood was the big disappointment.  His usually superb tee-to-green game deserted him this week.

Steve Williams choked down the home stretch.  This must be his worst ever defeat.  I'm not sure if he'll beat Jack's record now.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by brocks

So somebody had his anti-gravity gun trained on Scott's ball for five minutes or so, and then switched it off seven seconds after he took his practice swings?

I guess that's possible, but I wouldn't be "virtually certain" that that's what happened.

Brocks, get real. A ball is perched on some grass. It's moving imperceptibly, until finally it moves perceptibly. Did Dennis Miller cause that famous U.S. Open qualifying putt to go in after it had stopped? No. A tiny puff of wind, a blade of grass that finally gives way under the weight of the golf ball... all reasonable.

Originally Posted by jamo

Those pictures only prove the point that GMac had an easier pitch out. Tiger wouldn't have had a stance or a swing turned in that direction GMac was faced.

That, plus again the fact that Tiger's ball was buried and GMac's wasn't.

Originally Posted by brocks

IMO any intelligent person would have at least some doubt, and according to the rules, some doubt is all you need for a penalty. That is not intended as a shot at you; it is my general opinion on the subject.

Well then let's blame GMac too. Maybe he is the one who actually caused the ball to move. The light rays reflecting off his brighter pink shirt hit the ball harder than Adam's reflected light rays.

The official made a ruling. GMac didn't protest, and in fact seemed to be trying to say that Adam didn't cause it to move. This is not a Kenny Perry situation fluffing the lie. Adam Scott was deemed by the official not to have caused the ball to move. HIs practice swings weren't particularly close to the ball and he didn't jump up and down near the ball or blow on it.

I think your opinion that any intelligent person would have doubt and thus cause a penalty is both incorrect and rude.

Originally Posted by brocks

Watch Scott stomping up to the ball and tell me you have no doubt that he had nothing to do with it moving:

Ha ha ha ha ha! :)

Oh, wait, you weren't trying to make a joke?

[walk18]

Tiger still hasn't worked out how to hit driver.  This is very poor from such a great player in my opinion.

Huh? He's near the top of the tour this year in driving, and this week's tournament called for lots of irons off the tee.

[Infamous 273]

i missed the details of the dufner penalty on saturday.  does anyone know how it differed from scott's ball moving?

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Sorry, I watched Tigers shot and saw his lie. And I saw Mcdowells as well. They were nothing alike, and to say Bogey 'at worst' just proves to me you have never played links golf or been in a pot bunker. You cant get a feel for the depth of them, or the angle of the face of the bunkers, by looking at them on TV.

If you mean "you've never been to the United Kingdom" then yes, you are right.  However, I have played the Senator on the RTJ Trail, and at 6' 5" tall, I found myself in pot bunkers that were several feet deeper than I am tall, so yeah, I have a pretty good idea of the depth.  And, again , I qualified it with probably. We're talking about Tiger Woods... not me... getting out of that bunker.  With a few feet to work with, he probably gets it to about five feet, and since it's Tiger Woods, he probably holes the putt.  Because, you know, he's Tiger Freaking Woods!

Originally Posted by jamo

Those pictures only prove the point that GMac had an easier pitch out. Tiger wouldn't have had a stance or a swing turned in that direction GMac was faced.

GMac still had to deal with the face of the bunker behind his ball, regardless of the angle.  It's not like it was an irregularly shaped bunker that had something jutting out to interfere with Tiger's stance.  It's pretty much a circle.  Tiger just needed to move it a couple of feet back to give himself enough room to work with.  Yes, his lie was worse than GMac's, but chipping the ball into another part of the bunker is a hell of a lot more practical than what he tried to pull off.

[brocks]

I think your opinion that any intelligent person would have doubt and thus cause a penalty is both incorrect and rude.

Note that I did not state or imply that any intelligent person would think it's a penalty, because I don't think most people know the exact language of the rules. Common sense would say it's not Scott's fault the ball moved, and I think that's what many people are basing their opinion on. But the rules don't talk about fault or intent, they talk about certainty that the player did not cause the ball to move, however inadvertently. If I'm wrong that intelligent people are not certain about things they can't possibly be certain about, then I'm wrong, but I don't think that's rude. Certainly it was not as rude as the mocking responses from you and k-troop. I normally would have ignored them, but I did want to clear up the point about my "intelligent person" comment.

[ScT1]

I've been juggling in my head over which collapse was worse - Van de Velde's at Carnousite, or Adam Scott's yesterday at Royal Lytham?

But I've come to think, in spite of how Van de Velde threw it pretty much all away at the 72nd hole, that Scott's was worse in some ways. Scott had a long-drawn out collapse. A string of 4 bogeys. Scott's collapse is also worse some because he's next in line after Westwood and Donald to end up with the tag of best active player to never win a major, and yesterday he had it. He had a 4 shot lead, he was managing the course well and hitting good shots. Then one of his tires developed a slow leak and his car struggled in to the finish.

I also remember that when I saw Els sink his birdie putt at 18, I thought, "That's it. Scott's going to lose this."

If it weren't for the way Scott lost, I would be extremely happy. I've always liked Els, he's definitely been one of the finer players in the game and he very much deserves to be one of the few to win 4 or more majors.

Such a strange final round. There was no real drama until those last few holes, then in a span of 45 minutes, everything changed.

[Infamous 273]

Originally Posted by ScT1

I've been juggling in my head over which collapse was worse - Van de Velde's at Carnousite, or Adam Scott's yesterday at Royal Lytham?

But I've come to think, in spite of how Van de Velde threw it pretty much all away at the 72nd hole, that Scott's was worse in some ways. Scott had a long-drawn out collapse. A string of 4 bogeys. Scott's collapse is also worse some because he's next in line after Westwood and Donald to end up with the tag of best active player to never win a major, and yesterday he had it. He had a 4 shot lead, he was managing the course well and hitting good shots. Then one of his tires developed a slow leak and his car struggled in to the finish.

I also remember that when I saw Els sink his birdie putt at 18, I thought, "That's it. Scott's going to lose this."

If it weren't for the way Scott lost, I would be extremely happy. I've always liked Els, he's definitely been one of the finer players in the game and he very much deserves to be one of the few to win 4 or more majors.

Such a strange final round. There was no real drama until those last few holes, then in a span of 45 minutes, everything changed.

i agree.  at least van de Velde forced a playoff, and gave himself a chance to win.  I'm still baffled why scott used a 3W on 18 - it just doesn't make sense.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by brocks

Note that I did not state or imply that any intelligent person would think it's a penalty, because I don't think most people know the exact language of the rules. Common sense would say it's not Scott's fault the ball moved, and I think that's what many people are basing their opinion on. But the rules don't talk about fault or intent, they talk about certainty that the player did not cause the ball to move, however inadvertently.

If I'm wrong that intelligent people are not certain about things they can't possibly be certain about, then I'm wrong, but I don't think that's rude. Certainly it was not as rude as the mocking responses from you and k-troop. I normally would have ignored them, but I did want to clear up the point about my "intelligent person" comment.

We know the rules. But the rules dont count somebody walking up to the ball or any of the things you mentioned. There is no doubt that gravity made the ball move, not Adam Scott.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by utztech

I am glad Adam Scott lost.  I can't take that putter or his super wide putting stance.  Is it just me or does he look like he is ready for a full-cavity search when he is putting.

Ummm, Els uses a long putter too...

So does Webb Simpson, who won the US Open.