My Swing (Golfingdad)

[iacas]

Just slowly making backswings to match the green line in the top left picture here (using my reflection in the window as a guide) and then trying to feel my right shoulder staying in front of me (pretty sure that's what Erik means ;)) at the transition.

And letting your wrist conditions lay the shaft down. Not doing it through your shoulders (and also not letting your shoulder go "behind you," yes)

[Golfingdad]

I thought you were trying to get it to match the green line in the top right picture?

Both.

Top left picture is A3 and top right is A5.  I'm too flat at A3 and too steep at A5.  Need to flip flop both of those, basically.  Steeper on the way back (green line in top left picture instead of where the club actually is) and flatter on the way down.

[mvmac]

And letting your wrist conditions lay the shaft down. Not doing it though your shoulders (and also not letting your shoulder go "behind you," yes)

Does this part make sense Drew? We can talk about it more on Friday but this is part of what I was referring to when I've mentioned "stretching" less on the backswing. If you stay a little more flexed over, that'll help keep the right shoulder from sliding behind you around A4/4.5 (also keep the head from moving towards the target on the backswing). For now I would just focus on just changing the picture and just work on going steep to shallow.

[mdl]

I have this same problem, and I've only ever succeeded at times at least in getting steep-steep, rather than flat-steep (we're going for steep-flat). The thing that helps me with that is keeping my hands a little deeper from A1 to A2. When I let my hands push out on the take away it encourages me to roll my front arm too much/incorrectly (in the direction that pulls my left triceps away from my chest, relatively)/ This encourages raising my front shoulder, flattening out my shoulders and encouraging that "drop the right shoulder down and behind you" move in the transition, and getting the club head under plane at A2. To me it looks like you're doing that move a tad in your take away. Take it FWIW, but maybe something to consider for changing the A3 picture.

[Golfingdad]

Here's a bit of practice from today...

[cipher]

Here's a bit of practice from today...

Drew I don't want to say too much because I believe you have a lesson coming up soon.  Good stuff and you are getting the picture to change and the shaft to shallow a bit in that video, but Mike and Erik may eventually wan't you to exaggerate the wrists shallowing the shaft a little more in your practice swings.  I had to feel like I was doing it a ton to get it to really change much at all in a full swing.

:

[Golfingdad]

Drew I don't want to say too much because I believe you have a lesson coming up soon.  Good stuff and you are getting the picture to change and the shaft to shallow a bit in that video, but Mike and Erik may eventually wan't you to exaggerate the wrists shallowing the shaft a little more in your practice swings.  I had to feel like I was doing it a ton to get it to really change much at all in a full swing.   [SPOILER=Here is an example:] [/SPOILER] :

Yeah, lesson tomorrow so I'll defer to them on what my real priority will be but this is a GREAT visual (especially side by side with my feeble effort) to see where I need to be for that drill. Thanks Nate!!!

[mvmac]

Key #1 and #4 improvement.

Feeling "softer" with the upper back and like you have a little transfer to the right with your left hip/knee. On the left, kicking in too much "stretch" or extension, this pulls the right shoulder blade behind you and causes the shaft to load too shallow and then steepen on the downswing.

Really nice here. Can also see the difference with the grip, right hand isn't separating from the left hand.

Since the shaft isn't steep on the downswing there isn't a need to tip the head back, which can complicate low point control. Feeling on the right was to palmar flex the left wrist, shallow the shaft and open up a bunch with the hips.

"Softer" upper back helps control the rotation of the lead forearm.....

And location of the right shoulder/arm/elbow.

Drill swing on the right so it's exaggerated but illustrates the difference between "pulling" down and cupping the left wrist vs shallowing and bowing.

No swing thoughts here, just a result of cleaning up some pieces on the backswing and early on the downswing.

[nevets88]

Thanks for providing the analysis @mvmac and nice changes @Golfingdad ! That shallowing practice move that makes the club look horizontal may feel awkward at first, but at speed, it'll be juuust right as you probably already discovered.

[Golfingdad]

Key #1 and #4 improvement.

Feeling "softer" with the upper back and like you have a little transfer to the right with your left hip/knee. On the left, kicking in too much "stretch" or extension, this pulls the right shoulder blade behind you and causes the shaft to load too shallow and then steepen on the downswing.

Really nice here. Can also see the difference with the grip, right hand isn't separating from the left hand.

Since the shaft isn't steep on the downswing there isn't a need to tip the head back, which can complicate low point control. Feeling on the right was to palmar flex the left wrist, shallow the shaft and open up a bunch with the hips.

"Softer" upper back helps control the rotation of the lead forearm.....

And location of the right shoulder/arm/elbow.

Drill swing on the right so it's exaggerated but illustrates the difference between "pulling" down and cupping the left wrist vs shallowing and bowing.

No swing thoughts here, just a result of cleaning up some pieces on the backswing and early on the downswing.

[**Note:  Mike, you said "narrower" right at the beginning of the video, but you meant to say "wider" right?? ]

Thanks for the great lesson Mike and Dana!  Had a blast and am really excited to keep working on this.  The goals haven't really changed - convert shallow-to-steep to steep-to-shallow, and get the legs straighter at impact - but getting a slightly different explanation as well as in person helped to clear things up for me.

One of the eye-openers:  Being molded into an impact position and realizing just how open my hips and shoulders are expected to be versus where I'm at now.  (Illustrated well by the A8 photo above)

Another thing I learned ... what changes, ball flight wise, with that new path and impact position.  Ironically, even though I'm an engineer, I'm not very technical when it comes to the golf swing.  Dana asked me a couple of "test" questions about what causes the ball to launch at a certain angle and I failed. ;)  I knew loft, but I didn't know attack angle. Anyway, right now I'm launching it pretty high because although my attack angle is pretty steep, my body/hands aren't as forward (properly) as they should be so I'm delivering more loft than I should be.

These new positions would have me delivering less loft due to being more forward, however, a much shallower attack angle to go with it will still launch the ball high.   And it won't be a ballooning type of high, but rather a more boring/penetrating type of high ball flight.  Can't wait to see/hear myself hitting the ball this way.

The extent of the lesson wasn't really a drill per se, but as Mike would call it, more of a "mapping."  Sort of a piece-by-piece, staccato, walk-through.  Something like:

1. Backswing to A3, steeper, make sure left thigh is a little back of foot.
2. Keep soft right shoulder to top.
3. Trigger down by turning the right forearm up and the bowing the left wrist (quite a lot for feeling)
4. Twist open the hips and shoulders while squaring up the knees.
5. Keep twisting, keeping bowed left wrist, keeping left shoulder DOWN and keeping left arm against chest, getting to about A6.5.
6. Then hit it.  And this is where I incorporate the jumping move I've already been practicing.  (while remembering to keep the left shoulder down.)

Thanks for providing the analysis @mvmac and nice changes @Golfingdad! That shallowing practice move that makes the club look horizontal may feel awkward at first, but at speed, it'll be juuust right as you probably already discovered.

Haven't done it at speed yet, but it already doesn't feel even remotely as awkward as it did when I was first placed into those positions. :)

Side note:  Hit several balls during the lesson with a 9-iron, and not one of them more than, probably 40 yards.

[mvmac]

[**Note:  Mike, you said "narrower" right at the beginning of the video, but you meant to say "wider" right??]

Yes sorry, made the stance a little wider.

[Golfingdad]

Yes sorry, made the stance a little wider.

This 30 second video is a perfect "in a nutshell" of the entire lesson.  This exact sequence of movements, done at varying speeds, will be my practice for the foreseeable future.

I also need to experiment with feels to get my right shoulder to STAY soft, rather than have to always readjust it at the top each time.

[Golfingdad]

Oops.

[SoundandFury]

This 30 second video is a perfect "in a nutshell" of the entire lesson.  This exact sequence of movements, done at varying speeds, will be my practice for the foreseeable future. :beer: I also need to experiment with feels to get my right shoulder to STAY soft, rather than have to always readjust it at the top each time.

Let me know if you have any feels or ideas for this. I need to work on it too.

[Golfingdad]

Let me know if you have any feels or ideas for this. I need to work on it too.

Lol. If and when a lightbulb goes on in my head, I will definitely share.

[Big C]

Nice work @Golfingdad . Having the discipline to repeat that same practice sequence over and over until it becomes second nature is so much harder than it looks. We are all good students during the lesson, and many of us keep it up for several practice sessions after that. But eventually our mind tricks us into thinking we've "got it" and the allure of full swings gets the best of us. I'm guilty myself, but I know you'll do good things with what you have learned.

I don't want to hijack your swing thread, but the advice here raised a general question for me. Is it generally advisable to have a flatter swing plane on the downswing than on the takeaway? Or is that specific to the shot shape you are trying to accomplish (draw vs. fade)? I have always assumed that I should strive to deliver the club downward on the same plane I brought the club back on. But Erik's advice to you a few posts above obviously deviates from that.

[Golfingdad]

Nice work @Golfingdad. Having the discipline to repeat that same practice sequence over and over until it becomes second nature is so much harder than it looks. We are all good students during the lesson, and many of us keep it up for several practice sessions after that. But eventually our mind tricks us into thinking we've "got it" and the allure of full swings gets the best of us. I'm guilty myself, but I know you'll do good things with what you have learned.

Oh, don't I know it.  I'm guilty of this as well.  What I'm most prone to do is get lazy and practice at faster speeds than I'm ready for.  I get a small bucket at lunch and if I go at the proper pace I'll either leave a bunch of balls that i paid for or i have to go through them a little quick sometimes.

I don't want to hijack your swing thread, but the advice here raised a general question for me. Is it generally advisable to have a flatter swing plane on the downswing than on the takeaway? Or is that specific to the shot shape you are trying to accomplish (draw vs. fade)? I have always assumed that I should strive to deliver the club downward on the same plane I brought the club back on.

I honestly don't know the answer.  I presume that if you can get the plane correct on the way down that it makes no difference what plane you're on going back.  But for me to get on the correct plane coming down, I have to be steeper going back. I imagine that not everybody needs that, but I honestly don't know for sure.

[SoundandFury]

Oh, don't I know it.  I'm guilty of this as well.  What I'm most prone to do is get lazy and practice at faster speeds than I'm ready for.  I get a small bucket at lunch and if I go at the proper pace I'll either leave a bunch of balls that i paid for or i have to go through them a little quick sometimes.   I honestly don't know the answer.  I presume that if you can get the plane correct on the way down that it makes no difference what plane you're on going back.  But for me to get on the correct plane coming down, I have to be steeper going back. I imagine that not everybody needs that, but I honestly don't know for sure.

I agree. in reality what matters is the downswing plane. I was able to hit some great high draws from my old, super flat downswing (look at my thread, my arms get about chest high). BUT, it's super inconsistent. Its really hard to consistently go back flat, and drop the club even shallower on the way down. Proper plane going back facilitates the proper plane going down.