Ball in giant unrepaired footprint in bunker ?

[inthehole]

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it.

If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I would not have hit it out of a 4" deep footprint either. The bunker is a hazard, and was placed there to penalize an errant shot. We can all agree with that. Having to hit out of a deep pit filled with sand is enough penalty. When the rules were written, I don't think it was intended that you would also need to hit out of a 4" deep footprint inside of the hazard as well. I would have taken the nearest point of relief inside the hazard, hit my shot, then raked the trap properly. You can be assured no one on the PGA tour has to worry about that.

[meenman]

Unfortunately it is the price of playing munis - cheap rates will get those that dont care. Nobody cares what you do on your own - but if you were playing someone for even 10 cents, you would have to attempt the shot or take the unplayable penalty. We dont worry about that stuff on our private courses - the criminals would be caught and driven out of the club.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by inthehole

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it.

If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

I'd have played, but that's just how I see the game.  If it was truly unplayable, then I'd declare it as such under Rule 28 and take the penalty drop in the bunker.  The rules don't care what the PGA Tour does, or what happens in a private club.  Both are irrelevant.

[thescarecrow]

Originally Posted by inthehole

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it.

If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

Chock it up laddy, its a hazard., How did it get there?  Perfect drive down the fairway that lands in a unrepaired divot is worse.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by inthehole

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it.

If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

Why would you come to a Rules Forum, where the actual rules are discussed, and try to get absolution for not following the rules?  I just don't get it.

In that situation I look at it as a rub of the green that gives me a challenge to overcome.  At its essence, golf is about overcoming challenges.  If I sidestepped the challenge I would be cheating myself out of an opportunity to make a great recovery.  Anyone who talks about fair in the context of golf just doesn't get it, IMO.  If the lie is truly impossible then there is a rule to cover that situation - the unplayable lie rule.

[Dave2512]

Sloppy bunkers, happens all the time, muni and private alike. I frequent both and it's a common occurrence. Personally makes not a bit of difference because chances are slim I'll hit the perfect out. I erase the BS from my mind and attempt my best effort.

[David in FL]

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it. If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

How would you have felt if you had holed out that bunker shot? Proud? I bet not......

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

When the rules were written, I don't think it was intended that you would also need to hit out of a 4" deep footprint inside of the hazard as well...

I'm not sure about that. When the rules were written, the hazards were the sandy areas along the Scottish shorelines and sheep land, and I doubt they had any rakes. They truly were "hazards" - nothing like the finely manicured bunkers we have today, where given a choice between a greenside bunker and thick rough most good players would rather be in the former.

I agree though, it sucks finding yourself in a footprint. A bad bounce is one thing, but someone else's laziness is another.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

When the rules were written, I don't think it was intended that you would also need to hit out of a 4" deep footprint inside of the hazard as well.

When the rules were written, courses were where sheep and cattle lived. Hoof prints were normal. Play the ball as it lies.Rakes weren't introduced until about 60 years ago.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthehole

I play public muni courses and often people either don't know or don't care about properly fixing footprints in bunkers.    It finally happened last time out ... my ball wound up in a 4 inch deep footprint.     Someone didn't even make an attempt to rake their footprints.    Simply no humanly way possible to get the ball reliably out from that kind of lie.    Now, I know we have to play it as it lies, but comon, why should I be penalized for someone else's carelessness ?     I moved the ball a few inches over on the flat sand ... no way I was gonna let somebody else's carelessness potentially ruin my round (that lie was so bad I could realistically see it costing me several strokes that I shouldn't have had to lose).     Those footprints were so deep it took me a couple minutes to rake it properly so the next guy wouldn't have to deal with it.

If this has ever happened to you, do you just chock it up laddy as the rub of the green or better your lie ?

Why would you come to a Rules Forum, where the actual rules are discussed, and try to get absolution for not following the rules?  I just don't get it.

In that situation I look at it as a rub of the green that gives me a challenge to overcome.  At its essence, golf is about overcoming challenges.  If I sidestepped the challenge I would be cheating myself out of an opportunity to make a great recovery.  Anyone who talks about fair in the context of golf just doesn't get it, IMO.  If the lie is truly impossible then there is a rule to cover that situation - the unplayable lie rule.

Just a note to correct some terminology:

Quote:

Rub Of The Green

A “ rub of the green ’’ occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1 ).

Contrary to popular interpretation, a rub of the green does not refer to just any bad luck which occurs on the course.  It is a very specific occurrence.  A ball lying in a footprint is only a rub of the green if the ball was deflected there by bouncing off an outside agency.

[rogolf]

Bad luck starts somewhere, play hard or use the unplayable rule.

[hacker101]

Play it where it sits unless you will jack your clubs up, like on a cart path. Learn from playing some of the impossable shots get the reward when you hit it.

[joekelly]

Last week my friend told me that concerning the delicious, fully cooked Christmas Day turkey on offer as free prize to best Stabelford score at upcoming golf day tourney, that all ethical considerations on the Rules of Golf were secondary to his desire to 'win the bird'.  Sure, i was hungry too.

...'ruin my round'...   As someone commented, the game is within you, not upon the green grass.

[chilepepper]

Well........we are really not supposed to be in the sand trap in the 1st place. They designed to be harder than the fairway or rough. I hear you though.....it stinks when situations like that arise.

[Yukari]

It's the rub of the green.  Gotta play it as is.  Which should remind everyone to fix the bunkers after playing out of them.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Yukari

It's the rub of the green.  Gotta play it as is.  Which should remind everyone to fix the bunkers after playing out of them.

Read my post above.... it's not "rub of the green".

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by hacker101

Play it where it sits unless you will jack your clubs up, like on a cart path. Learn from playing some of the impossable shots get the reward when you hit it.

Ummm, you are entitled to a free drop from a cart path.