How to handle slow players?

[Pakoh]

its nice when the marshall drives around the course  and tells slow groups they need to keep up.  A lot of places dont do anything once the golfers are out there.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by Pakoh

its nice when the marshall drives around the course  and tells slow groups they need to keep up.  A lot of places dont do anything once the golfers are out there.

its nice when the marshal drives around the course and chats up all the slow groups because theyre a bunch of old guys that the marshal is buddy-buddy with, and then tells them to have a good day but doesnt tell them to hurry the eff up...

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by Pakoh

its nice when the marshall drives around the course  and tells slow groups they need to keep up.  A lot of places dont do anything once the golfers are out there.

Originally Posted by colin007

its nice when the marshal drives around the course and chats up all the slow groups because theyre a bunch of old guys that the marshal is buddy-buddy with, and then tells them to have a good day but doesnt tell them to hurry the eff up...

Both of these are true. I've been on courses where the FBI couldn't find a ranger and I've been on courses where the ranger just drives around talking to their buddies. Neither does anything to keep up pace of play.

[mvmac]

Check out this thread about a new program that will be launched in the next few days to improve pace-of-play nationwide in 2013

http://thesandtrap.com/t/63954/solving-slow-play-a-new-pace-of-play-program-you-can-support-in-2013

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by laconic517

I still blame golf courses for a large portion of the slow play.

6 minute tee times, thick rough/tall grass/not clearly marked hazards, all add up.  If I was a golf course designer that was making a muni for your everyday golfers play, I would NEVER put heather/tall grass on the course.  Its absolutely asinine and just bogs down the golf course.  At least if you have water out there its an obvious hazard.  I cant believe how many courses I have played that have areas that arent marked red that clearly should be (assuming you want to keep a reasonable pace of play).  This causes people to look for their ball,etc which takes up considerable time when you have to do it every other hole (depending on the group you are playing with).  Combine that with the 6 minute tee times and you are in for 5-6 hour rounds.

Yes golfers do contribute to the slow play as well (I can't stand playing in city tournaments anymore because of the 5.5hr rounds, people grinding over putts/iron shots when they are going to shoot 82 just like everyone else in that day group and we have 0 chance of placing in the top 10 or winning money) but I still believe the golf courses could alleviate a majority of the problems.

If people are hacks there are situations where they really can't speed up if they want to actually post a legit score.  Blade balls over a green a few times and its going to make for a slow hole.  Also, with hacks, you cant even walk up to your ball to play ready golf, as if you do you will clearly be in harms way of the occasional shank or scull or whatever.  You basically have to stand behind them in order to be 100% safe.

I myself am a pretty fast golfer (I can only think of one of my buddies who may be faster, and thats only because he takes 0 practice swings) but this obsession with speed and blaming the golfers needs to kinda stop.  Unless you are going to set a handicap limit, or you want people not to post actual scores, the majority of the blame has to fall on the golf courses

turning golf courses into long pitch and putts wouldn't solve a thing.

6 minute tee times aren't ideal but if a course has a very high volume of players then they are gonna wanna make that money..especially these days.  Thick rough isn't the issue...nor are marked hazards.  That still comes down to the player either not respecting their own ability and trying a shot they can't hit and/or not knowing golf rules and etiquette(everyone in the group watch all the balls).

Any hazard marked as red thats just grass..I'm going in to find my ball if I can and if I can get a swing on it..I'm gonna hack it out.  Afterall, thats completely within the rules.  Again..if someone is constantly hitting errant shots, its not the courses fault..its the players fault for not having the necessary skill to play a particular course.

[Stevieb15]

7.5 hours is way too long ! I will DQ myself if the game cannot be completed within 5 hrs .

5? Can't think of any reason other than death why a 4 ball should take more than 4 hours. Slow play and the attached ignorance of the felons will eventually kill this game

[Bobtrumpet]

$200 (or other amount - $50 may be enough) deposit on the cart.

If you don't bring it back in 5 hours (or other time; 5 hours gives you time to get your clubs to your car and bring the cart in with a sub 5 hour round), your CC gets charged.

BIG SIGNS UP FRONT! in the parking lot and in the pro shop stating the policy - and you sign a paper stating that you have been told the new policy and agree to it.

Just thinking out loud. I wonder if it would work?

[carrx]

Originally Posted by colin007

its nice when the marshal drives around the course and chats up all the slow groups because theyre a bunch of old guys that the marshal is buddy-buddy with, and then tells them to have a good day but doesnt tell them to hurry the eff up...

On the contrary, if the marshal is good buddies with a group, it usually means the group plays often, which usually (but not always) means they know how to play ready golf.  Guys that play enough to know the marshals usually understand their responsibilities.

In my opinion, it's a bit of a catch-22.  Golf courses want to attract more people to the game, but by doing so, courses frequently are filled with beginners and folks who don't play enough to understand the unwritten rules of the game (etiquette, pace of play, etc.).

Just this past Monday I played with my dad (a 20 handicapper who may be the slowest player alive) and a buddy (9.5, decent enough).  We were paired with two singles (in So Cal public courses often play 5-somes).  They were both sh*tty golfers, but more importantly, neither understood "how" to play.  They were so frequently out of position, not ready to hit, marking 4 foot putts for triple bogey, etc. I nearly quit after 12.  It was a train wreck, made worse by the fact that it was a "cart path only" day, because of inclement weather.  I walk, and was not affected, but I must have added a full mile to my odometer beating the brush to help these guys find their tee balls.

An earlier poster made the point about golf course setups, and there's something to that.  It doesn't matter what tees you play if you can't get the ball in play off the tee.  Some courses are wide open and allow for that, others are not.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Bobtrumpet

$200 (or other amount - $50 may be enough) deposit on the cart.

If you don't bring it back in 5 hours (or other time; 5 hours gives you time to get your clubs to your car and bring the cart in with a sub 5 hour round), your CC gets charged.

BIG SIGNS UP FRONT! in the parking lot and in the pro shop stating the policy - and you sign a paper stating that you have been told the new policy and agree to it.

Just thinking out loud. I wonder if it would work?

I don't think so. As has been pointed out whenever something like this has been suggested, you're at the mercy of any slow groups in front of you. Just one slow group could cost several groups behind them (who might have otherwise been very speedy) a lot of money.

I like this idea (posted in another thread today):

Originally Posted by iacas

That's why I proposed an idea similar to that but with much lower rates: give someone $20 off their next round at your course or something. That way they're not "out" anything if they take too long but there's still some incentive to play quickly, some reward.

[dak4n6]

Just giving a little perspective here - I can play a 3 hr round with an effecient 4some walking, and I prefer quick play, but my girl is one of those who just moves kind of slow on the course. She steps up to the tee, looks around for a place to tee her ball, adjusts her hair, takes a stance, takes 2 or 3 practiced swings, resets, waggles, then swings. She has only been playing 1.5 yrs, and I have been schooling her, and she knows she is slow and trying to improve (she sometimes even yells at our daughter who is even slower), but let's face it: IT IS HARD TO MASTER THIS GAME AND ALSO TRY TO PLAY FAST. A lot of duffers just need to get their mind in order just to keep their head above water. Sometimes when I get on her too hard her game just falls apart (which of course leads to even slower play looking for her ball). Someone above posted about 20 hints on how to play fast - all totally legit, but look at it from the perspective of a newb - you have about 48 swing thoughts, and then you also have 20 things to remember about how to play fast...

So, should we just not allow newbs to play?  They do this kind of thing in (I believe) Japan and Sweden, where you have to prove your proficiency to play courses - is this the solution? I think that anyone above a 10 (of course that's just above my hc) should not be allowed to play.

[Paradox]

they make par 3 courses and the like that anyone can go and enjoy.  Hard to lose a ball and gives you enough swing practice that you can eventually gain some control over your shots.  There are also driving ranges.

I'm a firm believer that you must first learn the basic fundamentals of golf away from the course.  People who can't get the ball in the air shouldn't bother paying the money to play a round.  Just go to the driving range for a while.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

So, should we just not allow newbs to play?  They do this kind of thing in (I believe) Japan and Sweden, where you have to prove your proficiency to play courses - is this the solution? I think that anyone above a 10 (of course that's just above my hc) should not be allowed to play.

i think that a par 3 course is the best idea for a beginning golfer.  i cut my teeth on a par 3 course less than a mile from my house when i was learning the game.  theres no reason why a beginner should be playing 400 yard par 4s when they cant get the ball in the air.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by colin007

i think that a par 3 course is the best idea for a beginning golfer.  i cut my teeth on a par 3 course less than a mile from my house when i was learning the game.  theres no reason why a beginner should be playing 400 yard par 4s when they cant get the ball in the air.

Heck I played golf for most of my life before taking a decade plus layoff and I spent time getting back into it on the par 3 just last spring. Honestly that was where I witnessed the worst of the slow play atrocties all year. We have a somewhat challenging 1100y par 3 here that I really enjoy playing, even now. But the last time I was there it took me 1.5 hrs to get through it. I don't think slow play is acceptable there either. They have a 6 stroke limit that rarely if ever is observed. Strange thing is on the 600y junior par 3 at the same course slow play was never an issue. Never a beginner in sight. Just guys with wedges and putters practicing the short game.

[walk18]

I hate slow play as much as the next guy, but 4.5 hours should be the standard for a foursome on a moderately busy day at a public course. Some of you freaking out about anything over 4 hours are being a little unrealistic.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by walk18

I hate slow play as much as the next guy, but 4.5 hours should be the standard for a foursome on a moderately busy day at a public course. Some of you freaking out about anything over 4 hours are being a little unrealistic.

Yup.

I played Monday morning at a usually very busy, crappy muni in the second group of the day.  First group was a threesome that we never saw after the second hole, and the group behind us was never within striking distance (and the only time I saw them after the first hole was while we were coming off 12, they were coming off 10.)  We were a foursome of decent, but not great, golfers, all of whom played ready golf.  We spent almost no time looking for lost balls, waited 7 or 8 minutes for two of the guys to use the restroom and get some food at the turn, and we finished in almost exactly 4 hours.  Absolutely acceptable in my book.

(When it is busy at that course, if I finish in under 5 hours, I'm happy - which is why I don't play there too often)

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

5? Can't think of any reason other than death why a 4 ball should take more than 4 hours. Slow play and the attached ignorance of the felons will eventually kill this game

I would really love to see these courses you guys claim to finish in under 4 hours? They do not exist in this 'neck of the woods'.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I would really love to see these courses you guys claim to finish in under 4 hours? They do not exist in this 'neck of the woods'.

Dave and I shared a caddie and played the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island (back tees, except the few that were closed) in less than four hours.

[Dave2512]

We play in under 4 hours all the time but it is by no means the norm. One is a private club where we play late in the day and everything else lacks the traffic to jam the course up. It certainly isn't the standard I use to determine what can be considered slow. On a busy course if I get through 18 in 4.5-5 hrs I consider that acceptable. But it's not something I find enjoyable simply because most days I don't have that much free time. I think some people are confusing what is acceptable vs. what they prefer because they play on out of the way courses or exclusive where slow play is rarely an issue. If time and money wasn't an issue I'd park my ass at a course and stay there all day farting around.