Is the Golf Equipment Business one big scam?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Fearlessgolfer

The word "scam" replies a fraudulent deal. How so?

That's basically why I say it's not a scam.  The R11 driver still works just as good now as it did when it cam out two years ago.  And they're clubs you can use for many years.

Originally Posted by Fearlessgolfer

So, this brings me back to the question I posted on FB Sandtrap: Has golf driver technology reached its limits?

Yes and no.  Yes for hitting the center of the club.  But now they're finding ways to increase speed with aerodynamics, weight and making off center hits "hotter".  The next step is finding new materials, problem with that is spending money to do so.  What's going to be the next material to replace titanium?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Unrelated to golf:  I bought my son new basketball shoes at the mall yesterday, he was convinced with these new shoes he'd run faster and jump higher than he could in his old ones.

I remember as a kid, when we got our new sneakers, they felt awesome and you could run really fast!  But it was mostly because our old sneakers were a size too small, beat up and worn and smelled like dead fish.

[notsohard]

not so much as a scam, but more like snake oil....in regards to the distances.

a test with a 693 persimmon with titleist 100 balatas from the 80's were going just as far as a 2012 titanium head driver, and the longest was 287 yards with the persimmon.....not much has changed in distance, just feel, looks, and forgiveness.

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by notsohard

not so much as a scam, but more like snake oil....in regards to the distances.

a test with a 693 persimmon with titleist 100 balatas from the 80's were going just as far as a 2012 titanium head driver, and the longest was 287 yards with the persimmon.....not much has changed in distance, just feel, looks, and forgiveness.

Similarly, I have found that the only appreciable differences in distance are on mishits compared to my driver from 1998.

[jgreen85]

Originally Posted by notsohard

not so much as a scam, but more like snake oil....in regards to the distances.

a test with a 693 persimmon with titleist 100 balatas from the 80's were going just as far as a 2012 titanium head driver, and the longest was 287 yards with the persimmon.....not much has changed in distance, just feel, looks, and forgiveness.

how does the persimmon driver with modern balls compare to the 2012 titanium driver and modern balls? same result? If so, then maybe I won't be in the market for a new driver this spring.

[notsohard]

Originally Posted by jgreen85

how does the persimmon driver with modern balls compare to the 2012 titanium driver and modern balls? same result? If so, then maybe I won't be in the market for a new driver this spring.

test was only with the balatas.....modern ball would be interesting,

i know of guys who use persimmon with the modern ball and have excellent results.

[saevel25]

I've hit with persimmon woods before, using a modern golf ball. The ball flew much lower, but honestly it wasn't hard to hit the golf ball. The ball traveled about 30 yards less though :p

[Topper]

I'm glad companies do what they do.  With limitations placed on golf equipment design, I KNOW last year's (or previous year's) equipment is just as good for my game.  So I'm happy to pickup decent new or used equipment at a great price as herds of golfers absorb the current years' marketing hype and buy "revolutionary" new equipment.

[k-troop]

I think it's ridiculous, but it's win-win.  For fools who want to buy new clubs every year, they have options.  For the rest of us, any time you're in the market for a newer club, you can always find something that's a year or so old (and still well within the range of "new tech") for a reasonable price.  What's really the travesty is how expensive clubs have gotten.  Drivers now cost more than 3x what they did 15 years ago, and putters have more than doubled in the last 6-8 years.  But, again, these $400-500 drivers will be $200 in a year.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by k-troop

I think it's ridiculous, but it's win-win.  For fools who want to buy new clubs every year, they have options.  For the rest of us, any time you're in the market for a newer club, you can always find something that's a year or so old (and still well within the range of "new tech") for a reasonable price.  What's really the travesty is how expensive clubs have gotten.  Drivers now cost more than 3x what they did 15 years ago, and putters have more than doubled in the last 6-8 years.  But, again, these $400-500 drivers will be $200 in a year.

6 months out, the Adams Speedline Tech with a Matrix RUL shaft is now $199 (not $399). And you can find them on ebay for $150 or so.

It's got everything the new Speedline S has except the slot. And the RUL shaft is a better stock shaft.

[sportsnut]

I think the sponsorships are more of an issue than the constant marketing of "new, latest and greatest far flinging equipment, if the pros are playing special shafts, balls, clubs that do not resemble what we as amatuers can buy and play it just re-enforces that as a amatuer it is way more important to just find the clubs that fit your game and stay with them as long as you can, then as your game changes, then look for newer equipment to stay in the game. It is definitely a good point that you can buy really up to date equipment at a good to great price from original prices if you just wait a year for the hype to shift, for the most part I think we have to omit ping and titleist from this point. Most of the time the sales I see omit them from the reduced prices. Although about 2 years ago I walked part of an executive course with a guy in his early 90's. His doctor encouraged him to keep on playing and he was a nice guy to spend a few hours with for sure. He had some real old equipment and did not hit the ball very far and was surely not worried a bit about the latest and greatest equipment JMHO, got to be under 70 days for springtime in the northeast so!!!

[GaijinGolfer]

The problem isnt marketing or tour usage, its people who buy into the marketing, believing that a new driver or 3-wood is going to give them 17 more yards.  Everyone wants some magic pill that is going to make them hit the ball like the tour pros, instead of just taking lessons and working on the flaws in their swing.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by sportsnut

I think the sponsorships are more of an issue than the constant marketing of "new, latest and greatest far flinging equipment, if the pros are playing special shafts, balls, clubs that do not resemble what we as amatuers can buy and play ...

This is a myth.  For the most part, the clubs the pros play are all available to us.  Yes, some use "prototypes" that may not yet, or ever, be available, but you can see that a guy like Nick Watney, for example (last year), is playing AP2's.  The exact same ones we can buy if we want. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag

I agree, though, that they can be a bit deceptive.  They know that people want to "be like the pros" but they also want to sell their latest stuff.  I noticed this weekend during the myriad of showings of last years TOC that Steve Stricker was playing with a 910D driver based on the big bright shiny head cover.  However, if you paid close attention after the head cover came off, his driver wasn't adjustable ... which means it wasn't a 910, it was probably a 2 year old 909 (or older) model.  Well, Titleist certainly doesn't want to advertise that a 2 or 4 year old driver is the preference of somebody who has whatever he wants at his disposal, because that would hurt marketing.  We're not going to tell you he's playing a 910, because that would be a lie, but we're going to try and hide the fact that he's not.

Same thing happened when the 913 came out too ... some starting playing with it but ALL started using the headcover.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I've hit with persimmon woods before, using a modern golf ball. The ball flew much lower, but honestly it wasn't hard to hit the golf ball. The ball traveled about 30 yards less though :p

Yeah the modern ball spins a lot less than the older one so it won't carry as far and I think the persimmon woods has less loft than most modern drivers.  Also have to consider CoG location with the lower launch.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This is a myth.  For the most part, the clubs the pros play are all available to us.  Yes, some use "prototypes" that may not yet, or ever, be available, but you can see that a guy like Nick Watney, for example (last year), is playing AP2's.  The exact same ones we can buy if we want.  http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag

And the prototypes that aren't available to the public, aren't something most golfers would benefit from anyway.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Same thing happened when the 913 came out too ... some starting playing with it but ALL started using the headcover.

What can be funny is some TaylorMade or Adams staff guys that only play a few of their sponsors clubs.  Like last year I think Ryan Moore had one Adams club but had the staff bag and hat.

[Socketeer]

I have it on good authority that Titleist have a product introduction program that covers the next 5 years ongoing. So on the basis of that information in theory it would have been possible to see the design for the 913 series drivers, fairways and hybrids around the same time you were buying the 905 series. When questioned by a club pro at a conference in Marbella, Spain, about what he should do with his current stock and that it seemed unjust that the playing public were now within a very short time of the last launch, were now being expected to purchase the new launch, the reply wasn't great. The Callaway agent intimated that while they continued produce the stuff the "idiots" out there would buy it. Evidently the answer to the sale of old stock problem was to sell it off at half price. This would mean him selling the stuff for less than he bought it. Callaway, I understand, had a policy of "minimum order quantity" which obviously compounded the problem. So yes, I do feel it's a scam!

[El Bandito]

Wow. Somebody touched a nerve here. I can only speak personally, but the marketing stuff appeals to that little 1% inside of me that WANTS to believe that new kit can help me be better. I agree with the majority of posters, money would be better spent on practice, outlandish claims are always undone by the small print, and a moments logical thought would tell us that if half the claims were true, we would all be hitting it 750 yards with an 8 iron. In actual fact, the technology undoubtedly already exists to do this, but the rules guys prevent this technology being used. Marketing guys are many things, but not stupid...that irrational 1% + 'new shiny bright things.....' I am one of the suckers! Anybody need some of last years irons???

[JamesTucker]

Absolutely agree - listen we are being marketed to all the time and the newer models are hyped.  To be fair probably a bit over hyped but there is no doubt that the TM R1 for example will be a better club than the R11 (now 2 years old).  Doesn't mean the the R11 isn't still an awesome club and that it cannot improve the driving accuracy of someone playing with an R7 for example.  The latest technology all helps a little bit - bigger sweet spot, more forgiving etc.. but I agree we should all be hitting 1000 yards now if we believed the hype.

But there is no question that certain drivers will suit certain styles and it will make a difference to your game.  So absolutely give it a go - consider getting year old or 2 year old drivers if that is an upgrade over what you have now.  Demo the clubs as much as you can.  I've signed up with a crowd called golfredefined (golfredefined.com) to do just that - no buying a club - just a membership fee and they send whatever driver in the mail you want..swap it out for any other of your choosing at any stage.  Beauty is that you can still try the older models too as well as the latest and greatest from TM, Ping, Titleist etc.

So don't get too upset about the hype and marketing and just realize that there are small and subtle improvements each time a new model comes out.

Originally Posted by jamo

Just because TaylorMade (of whomever) comes out with a new driver does not mean their old ones are obsolete. Not in the slightest.

[jgreen85]

There, then, is something to be said for the new drivers getting much more out of the modern ball than the older drivers. Intel makes great chips, but the software must be written to take advantage of the hardware - u can substitute ball for chip and driver for software or vice versa and the point is the same. I'll likely go for my first driver fitting in the next month or so. I've been gaming my Diablo driver since Summer 2009 when I began playing, so maybe the combined benefits of a proper fitting and new technology will get me those 17 yards eh?