2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by darkhunter139

I am still banned from the chat.  Can I get unbanned for tomorrow?

Done. Weird. I did it right away and it worked for everyone else.

Originally Posted by BallStriker

I would argue that the "as nearly as possible" language is just a bad, bad rule......way too ambiguous...does it mean 1 foot, 3 feet....does it mean you have to try and drop it within an inch of the edge of the divot.......it should be governed by a club length rule.

That said, it is not ruled by clublength......and Tiger seemed to admit that he intentionally dropped it back of his prior spot.....

It's a bit vague yes, but it protects players who, for example, walk forward and then can't be entirely certain from where they struck their previous shot, so it'd be tough to word it differently without unintentionally punishing people who are trying to do the right thing.

Tiger's yardage changed by two yards (his words), so he knew it wasn't very "nearly" the same location.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Telephoto lenses on cameras severely compress things. That's how ten foot putts look like they're three feet long sometimes.

That's very true.  I was commenting during the chat how easy the approach from the fairway looked on 11.  I swear it looks like they're 140 out from a green that's 40 yards wide, when they are actually 190 out from a green that's half that size. :)  I still have it on tape ... when the kids go to bed, I'm gonna go all Zapruder on that bad boy.  "Tiger dropped back and to the left.  Back and to the left."

Originally Posted by iacas

They're expected to drop close to it - intentionally dropping two yards back is not "as nearly as possible."

But that almost seems intentionally vague to me.  Certainly you agree that nobody is supposed to try and land it in their own divot, right?  And considering that as he backs up, he is also backing UP, then it stands to reason that he might go an extra foot or two to keep it from rolling into that divot.

[srjorion]

Watching today's round on DVR and saw this discussion before seeing the shot in question. Feherty did say it was red, but then corrected himself and specifically said it was yellow.

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by mvmac

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision ofRule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (seeRule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

Just saw the replay after his finish.   In his TV interview right after leaving the scoring room, Tiger said (the quote is as close as I can remember it)  " I looked at the drop area but it was into the grain so it was a tough shot.  So instead I went back to where I was but went 2 yards farther back to take two yards off the shot ".     That sounds like he knew where he was and deliberately played from a different spot.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

That's very true.  I was commenting during the chat how easy the approach from the fairway looked on 11.  I swear it looks like they're 140 out from a green that's 40 yards wide, when they are actually 190 out from a green that's half that size. :)  I still have it on tape ... when the kids go to bed, I'm gonna go all Zapruder on that bad boy.  "Tiger dropped back and to the left.  Back and to the left."

But that almost seems intentionally vague to me.  Certainly you agree that nobody is supposed to try and land it in their own divot, right?  And considering that as he backs up, he is also backing UP, then it stands to reason that he might go an extra foot or two to keep it from rolling into that divot.

If it rolled into the divot, since he's a pro and his divot is on the target side of the golf ball, that would be closer to the hole and thus require a re-drop. :D

Originally Posted by Clambake

Just saw the replay after his finish.   In his TV interview right after leaving the scoring room, Tiger said (the quote is as close as I can remember it)  "I looked at the drop area but it was into the grain so it was a tough shot.  So instead I went back to where I was but went 2 yards farther back to take two yards off the shot".     That sounds like he knew where he was and deliberately played from a different spot.

That's my point.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I have to agree 100% with Erik on this one. There is nothing in the rules that allows for him to take his drop 2 yards behind where his original shot was taken from. That line is not the line between the flag and where it crossed the margin of the hazard. And the wording "by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot as the original shot was taken" means exactly that. He needs to drop right at his original shot. Dropping 2 yards behind it is a rule violation. I'm shocked no one on the course caught it.

[jamo]

https://twitter.com/JasonSobelGC/status/322909885337571328 Jason Sobel ‏@JasonSobelGC 9m A lot of talk about Tiger's drop on 15 possibly illegal. He knowingly dropped two yards further back. Differing views on if that's allowed.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by jamo

https://twitter.com/JasonSobelGC/status/322909885337571328

Jason Sobel ‏@JasonSobelGC 9m

A lot of talk about Tiger's drop on 15 possibly illegal. He knowingly dropped two yards further back. Differing views on if that's allowed.

"A lot of talk"? I haven't seen any except the ones I've started. :D

[cheetahpilot]

I didn't catch this myself at first, but Tiger is making the point himself that he added two yards to the original shot and then tried to hit the same shot.  SOMEBODY on golfchannel please address this.

[BallStriker]

Originally Posted by iacas ...

"A lot of talk"? I haven't seen any except the ones I've started. :D

You are the fire starter, the rest of us are "all the talk"....LOL......this is all on you Erik....who knows, you just may get a bottle of bubbly from Jack

[colin007]

Here's what I think happened - Tiger knows the rule, and he probably knowingly "bent" them in this case, I mean, who's really going to try and drop the ball directly onto the blade of grass that his ball was sitting on? There's a little leeway... Two yards worth? Idk, not up to me.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by colin007

the kid is going to finish at +14.

haters gonna hate.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

If it rolled into the divot, since he's a pro and his divot is on the target side of the golf ball, that would be closer to the hole and thus require a re-drop. :D

Aha!  But, but, but ... yeah, I got nothing.  Good point.  :)

I may miss the chat tomorrow ... I'm probably going to have to watch on DVR delay because I'm taking the little ones to a movie.  I'll hopefully catch up to you guys either near the end of the telecast or on Sunday.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Here's what I think happened - Tiger knows the rule, and he probably knowingly "bent" them in this case, I mean, who's really going to try and drop the ball directly onto the blade of grass that his ball was sitting on? There's a little leeway... Two yards worth? Idk, not up to me.

Two yards is longer than a club length. And he isn't even given the leeway of a club length. He needs to drop as close to the last shot as possible. I can't see how this procedure was not in direct violation of the rules.

[cheetahpilot]

Quotes from TigerWoods.com from today's post round interview:

Q: How hard is it, that second shot on 15 after getting a bad break like that?

TIGER WOODS: Well, I went down to the drop area, that wasn't going to be a good spot, because obviously it's into the grain, it's really grainy there. And it was a little bit wet. So it was muddy and not a good spot to drop. So I went back to where I played it from, but I went two yards further back and I took, tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit. And that should land me short of the flag and not have it either hit the flag or skip over the back. I felt that that was going to be the right decision to take off four right there. And I did. It worked out perfectly.

Q: He's playing with a guy shooting in the 80s, just wonder what you think of the harshness of that.

TIGER WOODS: Well, rules are rules. We have had a case of slow play for some of the guys out here on TOUR and we have our policies. And, unfortunately, he either didn't pick it up or sometimes you can get guys who are hitting shots or backing off a couple shots and you can get weird times. It can happen. I don't know what his situation is, but it's unfortunate.

[colin007]

haters gonna hate.

:~(

[jamo]

Quotes from TigerWoods.com from today's post round interview: Q: How hard is it, that second shot on 15 after getting a bad break like that? TIGER WOODS: Well, I went down to the drop area, that wasn't going to be a good spot, because obviously it's into the grain, it's really grainy there. And it was a little bit wet. So it was muddy and not a good spot to drop. So I went back to where I played it from, but I went two yards further back and I took, tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit. And that should land me short of the flag and not have it either hit the flag or skip over the back. I felt that that was going to be the right decision to take off four right there. And I did. It worked out perfectly. Q: He's playing with a guy shooting in the 80s, just wonder what you think of the harshness of that. TIGER WOODS: Well, rules are rules. We have had a case of slow play for some of the guys out here on TOUR and we have our policies. And, unfortunately, he either didn't pick it up or sometimes you can get guys who are hitting shots or backing off a couple shots and you can get weird times. It can happen. I don't know what his situation is, but it's unfortunate.

Reading it really does make it sound deliberate. Didn't seem as much like that hearing him speak live.

[mvmac]