Ball Max Height

[inthecup]

If you have forward shaft lean and are hitting the ball properly how much height should you get out of your Irons?

I have had an extremely high ball flight in the past and I have gotten it down but I am wondering what the goal is.

My 6 iron goes 25 to 30 yards high.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by inthecup

If you have forward shaft lean and are hitting the ball properly how much height should you get out of your Irons?

I have had an extremely high ball flight in the past and I have gotten it down but I am wondering what the goal is.

My 6 iron goes 25 to 30 yards high.

25-30 yards high is about right for ALL clubs.

Except your putter. If you can throw your putter 30 yards in the air, good for you.

[Zeph]

If you for some ludicrous reason don't believe Erik, here's a chart which show the numbers pretty clear. Third to last column is what you are looking for. You can read more about these data in the [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/32498/trackman-data-pga-tour-vs-lpga]"Trackman Data: PGA Tour vs. LPGA"-thread[/URL].

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by iacas

25-30 yards high is about right for ALL clubs.

Except your putter. If you can throw your putter 30 yards in the air, good for you.

Thanks Eric that is good progress for me then.  I could easily hit a 6 iron 50+ yards high, lots of fun in the wind.  I also gained 15 yards.

I'll keep working on it.  I think when I groove the swing I will have gained 20 yards in the air.  I might have to factor in some roll now though.

My balls were never more then a couple feet of where they landed on the green.

[boogielicious]

Keep in mind that 30 yards height for a driver will look a lot lower from your perspective than with a PW.

[saevel25]

Average tree size is probably 10 to 50 yards in the air. So, you can get a general idea at how high your ball goes from that. Around the midwest, most trees are the same height due to over logging, so they aren't to tall or to short around here.

[logman]

Again, another reason not to emulate the pros.

For most golfers the idea of hitting a ball 30 yards in the air with a 3 iron is almost impossible. most guys just don't have the swing speed to get that height on the ball......just look at the carry numbers of the pros. There's about 10 yards between 3 iron, 4 iron, 5 iron etc. Most amateur golfers would have smaller and smaller distance gaps as their clubs flattened in loft. So most guys 3 irons would carry about the same distance as their 5 irons......hence the popularity of the hybrids. Basically the hybrids fly higher and therefore restore the distance gaps in the longer clubs back to  the 10 yards or so that seems advantageous. 30 yards of shot height with a hybrid is possible for the amateur but wouldn't more height be better? Again, amateur golfers look at numbers on a chart about the height the pros hit the ball and think, "30 yards is the height I SHOULD be hitting the ball"

Also, have a look at the pitching wedge end of the bag. Again 30 yards in height.

If we all think its advantageous to hit down on the ball, with hands forward, weight forward etc,etc, then effectively we're de-lofting the club. Again the pros are doing this because they can. I mean, when pro golfers hit a pitching wedge through to a 7 iron they're hitting the ball with extreme back spin......ie, with enough backspin to stop the ball.

If amateur golfers hit their PW to 7 irons at 30 yards in height they wouldn't ever be able to hold a green.....they(we) don't hit the ball hard enough or spin the ball enough to stop it. The result is the back bunker.

Wouldn't the better tactic be to hit the ball high so the ball lands with a more vertical trajectory........and stops on the green??.

Advocating that amateur golfers should try to emulate the height that a pro hits the ball is IMHO just wrong headed. I mean the chart shows that the pros average swing speed for a 5 iron is 94 MPH. most amateurs swing their driver at that speed.

Surely the height that any given player hits the ball should be mated to the player himself. Amateurs should look at those numbers in interest but they shouldn't look at them as some kind of prerequisite to playing proper golf.

Rant over!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

For most golfers the idea of hitting a ball 30 yards in the air with a 3 iron is almost impossible. most guys just don't have the swing speed to get that height on the ball...

As you go on to say, those players can use hybrids. So what's your point?

Originally Posted by logman

30 yards of shot height with a hybrid is possible for the amateur but wouldn't more height be better?

Nope. The ball won't carry as far and will be knocked around by wind more.

Originally Posted by logman

Also, have a look at the pitching wedge end of the bag. Again 30 yards in height.

If we all think its advantageous to hit down on the ball, with hands forward, weight forward etc,etc, then effectively we're de-lofting the club. Again the pros are doing this because they can. I mean, when pro golfers hit a pitching wedge through to a 7 iron they're hitting the ball with extreme back spin......ie, with enough backspin to stop the ball.

If amateur golfers hit their PW to 7 irons at 30 yards in height they wouldn't ever be able to hold a green.....they(we) don't hit the ball hard enough or spin the ball enough to stop it. The result is the back bunker.

Wouldn't the better tactic be to hit the ball high so the ball lands with a more vertical trajectory........and stops on the green??.

A) Typical greens are nowhere near as firm as PGA Tour greens, so "regular golfers" can play all kinds of shots and still hold the greens they play.

B) It's hitting down with the handle forward that creates the spin, so yes, they should keep striving to do so because the more they do that the more spin they can create, the less their shots will be affected by the wind, the more solid they'll hit their clubs (so they can hit a PW from 130 instead of an 8-iron), etc.

C) It's not like you don't put backspin on a ball until you magically break onto a pro tour somewhere.

You continue to completely screw up this "why should we emulate the pros" concept.

Originally Posted by logman

Wouldn't the better tactic be to hit the ball high so the ball lands with a more vertical trajectory........and stops on the green??.

They already do that - it's the result of their flippy motions. They send the ball high, short, and with less backspin.

Originally Posted by logman

Advocating that amateur golfers should try to emulate the height that a pro hits the ball is IMHO just wrong headed.

You are the resident expert on wrong-headed thinking.

[Clambake]

Logman, I've followed a number of threads where you cover all your swing theories, and I'm really getting an appreciation for what you're saying and how it applies to the golf swing.   I think I've finally figured out there is a lot of value in what you're saying.    I've determined that if I take all your concepts and ideas and then do the exact OPPOSITE, I'll be a really good golfer.   Thanks for all your guidance - it's going to be a big help!

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Average tree size is probably 10 to 50 yards in the air. So, you can get a general idea at how high your ball goes from that. Around the midwest, most trees are the same height due to over logging, so they aren't to tall or to short around here.

Good point.

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by logman

Again, another reason not to emulate the pros.

For most golfers the idea of hitting a ball 30 yards in the air with a 3 iron is almost impossible. most guys just don't have the swing speed to get that height on the ball......just look at the carry numbers of the pros. There's about 10 yards between 3 iron, 4 iron, 5 iron etc. Most amateur golfers would have smaller and smaller distance gaps as their clubs flattened in loft. So most guys 3 irons would carry about the same distance as their 5 irons......hence the popularity of the hybrids. Basically the hybrids fly higher and therefore restore the distance gaps in the longer clubs back to  the 10 yards or so that seems advantageous. 30 yards of shot height with a hybrid is possible for the amateur but wouldn't more height be better? Again, amateur golfers look at numbers on a chart about the height the pros hit the ball and think, "30 yards is the height I SHOULD be hitting the ball"

Also, have a look at the pitching wedge end of the bag. Again 30 yards in height.

If we all think its advantageous to hit down on the ball, with hands forward, weight forward etc,etc, then effectively we're de-lofting the club. Again the pros are doing this because they can. I mean, when pro golfers hit a pitching wedge through to a 7 iron they're hitting the ball with extreme back spin......ie, with enough backspin to stop the ball.

If amateur golfers hit their PW to 7 irons at 30 yards in height they wouldn't ever be able to hold a green.....they(we) don't hit the ball hard enough or spin the ball enough to stop it. The result is the back bunker.

Wouldn't the better tactic be to hit the ball high so the ball lands with a more vertical trajectory........and stops on the green??.

Advocating that amateur golfers should try to emulate the height that a pro hits the ball is IMHO just wrong headed. I mean the chart shows that the pros average swing speed for a 5 iron is 94 MPH. most amateurs swing their driver at that speed.

Surely the height that any given player hits the ball should be mated to the player himself. Amateurs should look at those numbers in interest but they shouldn't look at them as some kind of prerequisite to playing proper golf.

Rant over!

I am sure you do not understand the concept.  The goal is to get your hands in front of the ball at impact.  What this means is that when your hands get to the ball the club head is 18 or more " behind the ball and as your hands move the next few inches the club moves 18.  That is when the speed is generated and the distance is achieved.  Part of it is delofting the club face.  A side effect is limiting the left and right miss.

If you ever had gotten your hands in front and the club head back you would have such an extreme ah ha moment your views would instantly change.    Dude figure out how to do that and report back.  If you are not able to do that you should eliminate the rant.

[inthecup]

I have been looking at this and I hit most of my clubs 30 yards high as measured by trackman.  This includes 3 iron on up.

What is interesting in that my ball height is noticeably higher than most everybody.  I am a picker and I am working on a more descending blow.

Do other people out there have verified max ball heights?  If so what are you seeing?

[Stretch]

Why do you want a more descending blow?

[Zeph]

Most players you see out on the course is not what you want to measure yourself against. Why would you want to change the height based on other people, when you got the height similar to PGA players? I'm not saying there aren't things you should work on, but I don't get your thought process.

[inthecup]

I want more of a descending blow because I believe I will get more distance out of it.  I know distance is not everything but it helps a lot.  A high ball flight that you have trouble getting down is very difficult in the wind also.  Can I land a 3 iron on a green, for the most part yes.  If there is a 10 mile an hour wind the descent angle isn't going to help being able to control ball in the wind with a the high flight.

By the way I am the guy that reads the advertising for clubs that says, "helps you get the ball in the air" and I think what like straight up?

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by inthecup

I want more of a descending blow because I believe I will get more distance out of it.  I know distance is not everything but it helps a lot.  A high ball flight that you have trouble getting down is very difficult in the wind also.  Can I land a 3 iron on a green, for the most part yes.  If there is a 10 mile an hour wind the descent angle isn't going to help being able to control ball in the wind with a the high flight.

By the way I am the guy that reads the advertising for clubs that says, "helps you get the ball in the air" and I think what like straight up?

Make an appt. to use a Trackman and see before you start fiddling with your swing.

Hitting down more may in fact REDUCE your distance.

[Stretch]

Since you have launch monitor data, you would really have to look at your ball speeds to see if you're going to get any benefit out of flighting it lower. If you're well below the tour averages but still hitting it the same height as them then you're almost certainly adding loft by flipping. Angle of attack is a much smaller factor for most regular golfers with the irons.

[jrasch]

Comparing my 6 iron to the information above I avg about 100mph on club head speed and hit the ball around 190ish carry. With the increase in speed shouldnt the ball be going further than around 7yds then the above numbers? Could this be cause I hit the ball higher? if so whats a good way of getting that down?