Bob Costas attacks CBS Sports for Ignoring the Masters' 'Racism and Sexism'

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by phan52

So they have a "right" to be racist and sexist, so that makes it OK. Got it.

And the Curves analogy just made me LOL.

Yes they have the right to be racist and sexist. Why do people have the right to tell Augusta National, a PRIVATE institution that they have to let any body in they don't want. If you were invited to join Augusta, you have the right to say no, because you may think they are Racist, you don't have to be associated with them. What your thought process is, would be saying that a private catholic school would be required to allow in Athiests. Does that makes sense, no. Its a PRIVATE SCHOOL, they should be allowed to shun out athiest, jews, muslims, anybody who doesn't believe in there religion. Augusta has the right to now allow in a certain group of people, because they may or may not be racist or sexist, it is there right to do so.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I don't want to be reminded of our history by a self-serving idiot who has an axe to grind because he's not part of the broadcast team that has the rights to the top golf tournament in the country.  Costas wouldn't have made the comment if he worked for CBS.

He most certainly would. He just wouldn't be allowed to participate in the proceedings.

And I don't know where you get that Costas is a "self-serving idiot". He's been doing this for a long time and certainly doesn't need to promote himself. IMO, it is part of his appeal.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Yes they have the right to be racist and sexist. Why do people have the right to tell Augusta National, a PRIVATE institution that they have to let any body in they don't want. If you were invited to join Augusta, you have the right to say no, because you may think they are Racist, you don't have to be associated with them. What your thought process is, would be saying that a private catholic school would be required to allow in Athiests. Does that makes sense, no. Its a PRIVATE SCHOOL, they should be allowed to shun out athiest, jews, muslims, anybody who doesn't believe in there religion. Augusta has the right to now allow in a certain group of people, because they may or may not be racist or sexist, it is there right to do so.

I went to Catholic school, from K to college degree, and I went to school with people of other faiths all the way through, so I don't know where you got that. Don't compare Catholic educators to the snobs at Augusta. Catholic educators don't "shun" people.

And I didn't say Augusta National didn't have the right to be racist and sexist. I said it isn't right. Obviously you disagree.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

Why? Curves isn't even as private and protected as Augusta - yet is MORE exclusionary and sexist.

And women aren't even a minority group.

Bingo.

[saevel25]

No i don't agree with racism or sexism. If they still want to be racist or sexist that's there choice, and they have a right to that choice. I just don't like those in the media who make claims with there own agenda. Its why i don't watch the major news networks, there all opinionated crap.

[ApocG10]

Whats sad is not that Augusta had an all male membership, its that they went back on that rule which is dissapointing. In the face of Women trying to push themselves into every male oriented club, while increasing the amount of Womens only clubs all the time, its about time male only clubs push back.

It doesn't matter what feelings the tradition was bored out of, it matters that Bobby Jones meant it to be a mens club, and should have stayed that way. There does not need to be quality in absolutely every club in North America. I don't see men bitching about Curves.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

Don't compare Catholic educators to the snobs at Augusta. Catholic educators don't "shun" people.

Yes they can (and do).

Originally Posted by phan52

Bingo.

Uhm...

You do realize how dumb saying "Bingo" was just there, right?

And I sent you a PM - multi-quote from here on out, phan.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I also think that "sexist" is being used incorrectly here.  Just because there weren't any actual single female members until recently doesn't mean they didn't allow women.

I'm not sure why that distinction would be relevant.  Since they don't have to allow women, let's speak hypothetically.  Whether a group disallows them access completely or only limits their access to a certain level wouldn't negate the justification they are using to discriminate.

Originally Posted by jamo

I don't mind Costas in a general, but I don't like it when he uses his sports platform for political issues (which happens to be just about every time he appears on my TV).

This is where I would disagree.  I don't really know much about Costas' political views other than the gun commentary, but I do believe that public platforms (especially when it comes to sports) are some of the best places to get those issues out in the open...especially ones that nobody is willing to talk about.  For some issues, that is the only way real progress will ever be made on minority or unpopular viewpoints.  Sweeping things under the rug or ignoring them is the exact reason why history tends to repeat itself on matters of racism and bigotry as is evinced in present day politics.

Anyway, I've read the past 5 pages a couple of times and feel I have a comfortable grasp of the arguments.  I can tell most people here would consider me a self-serving idiot as well if we went in-depth on this issue.  That would be fruitless though, as most people are willing to reduce the discussion down to, "they are a private club, they can do what they want." I'm not sure why they think a manifestation of discrimination being legal speaks to the morality of it's inspiration.  For anybody that truly cares about such things, that is the heart of the matter.

But I digress.  I'm glad Costas said this during the radio show and hope the discussion grows louder over time.  It will probably never happen, but I've been surprised before!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I'm not sure why that distinction would be relevant.  Since they don't have to allow women, let's speak hypothetically.  Whether a group disallows them access completely or only limits their access to a certain level wouldn't negate the justification they are using to discriminate.

I guess the difference is that I don't necessarily see their not having female members being equal to "limiting their access to a certain level."  My brother belongs to a country club, and it's not the exclusive invite only type either.  Anybody who wants to pay is accepted.  I asked him yesterday how many single female members they had and he responded: "I doubt there are very many, maybe less than 10.  Every woman I ever see out there is 99% of the time with a guy." My point is simply that just because there aren't (weren't) female members, doesn't mean that females didn't make up a good portion of their clientele.  Wives, girlfriends, friends. daughters, etc.

Quote:

This is where I would disagree.  I don't really know much about Costas' political views other than the gun commentary, but I do believe that public platforms (especially when it comes to sports) are some of the best places to get those issues out in the open...especially ones that nobody is willing to talk about.  For some issues, that is the only way real progress will ever be made on minority or unpopular viewpoints.  Sweeping things under the rug or ignoring them is the exact reason why history tends to repeat itself on matters of racism and bigotry as is evinced in present day politics.

Anyway, I've read the past 5 pages a couple of times and feel I have a comfortable grasp of the arguments.  I can tell most people here would consider me a self-serving idiot as well if we went in-depth on this issue.  That would be fruitless though, as most people are willing to reduce the discussion down to, "they are a private club, they can do what they want." I'm not sure why they think a manifestation of discrimination being legal speaks to the morality of it's inspiration.  For anybody that truly cares about such things, that is the heart of the matter.

I agree with you here ... just think Costas was off base this time.  (For some reason I don't remember the Costas gun rant everybody keeps referring to though - I must have been under a rock for a bit)

[RayG]

With 'Universal' taking over the Golf Channel and NBC, you think they haven't been bidding for the Masters? CBS has had ONE YEAR contracts since the start. NBC would LOVE to package with The Golf Channel to have 18 hole coverage for all 4 days, with the Par 3 tossed in. CBS wins all the time- not necessarily because of the amount of money bid, but because they are a known quantity and have worked with The Masters to put out the best product available without over exposing. Let them want more. They certainly don't need the money- Look at the prices of the concessions, and on-site only sales of swag. You can buy stuff online, but it's from some company who send folks in to buy everything they can, then sell it for 3X the price. You can be sure if NBC ever got the Masters, don't expect to see Costas involved or making ANY statements as to the "unfair-ness" of the Club. Unless he shoots his mouth off and gets fired. Then it will be on Oprah.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by RayG

You can be sure if NBC ever got the Masters, don't expect to see Costas involved or making ANY statements as to the "unfair-ness" of the Club. Unless he shoots his mouth off and gets fired. Then it will be on Oprah.

Except NBC already does a lot of golf and I don't think Costas has ever had anything to do with the telecasts, has he?  I believe it's always Johnny Miller and Dan Hicks.  No reason (especially now ;)) to think that they would randomly throw in Costas just because it was the Masters.

[RayG]

They can and do some "news" stories involving the Masters that have other members of CBS' News corp in addition to the usual golf crew, so it would be entirely possible that Costas could have a soapbox to crow from.

[boogielicious]

My feelings on Bob Costas were documented in the Olympics thread.  Whether or not I agree with him, he is still and insufferable puke.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes they can (and do).

I have never known that to happen, especially in the Philly Archdiocese. They will educate anybody who is willing to accept the religious aspects of the education process. They don't have to convert.  If the family doesn't want to accept it, they are free to go elsewhere. That is not "shunning". I went to grade school, high school and college at Catholic institutions that welcomed people of all faiths.

Originally Posted by iacas

Uhm...

You do realize how dumb saying "Bingo" was just there, right?

What do you want next? Access to ladies shower rooms? And BTW, men are welcome at the vast majority of Curves.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I agree with you here ... just think Costas was off base this time.  (For some reason I don't remember the Costas gun rant everybody keeps referring to though - I must have been under a rock for a bit)

It was during halftime of a football game.  Possibly Monday Night Football.  I'm not sure which game because I didn't watch it, but it was the weekend that a Kansas City Chiefs player (Javon Belcher) committed a murder-suicide.  The comments that I read didn't seem like that big a deal, but set off a firestorm reaction as folks were still really sensitive on the gun violence debate after the Sandy Hook fallout (I'm pretty sure Sandy Hook was a few weeks prior).

Anyway, I'm exiting this thread as the subject is probably too near/dear to my heart for me to shrug off some of the posts I've read.  Just saying this in case anybody responds to my prior post.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by phan52

He most certainly would. He just wouldn't be allowed to participate in the proceedings.

And I don't know where you get that Costas is a "self-serving idiot". He's been doing this for a long time and certainly doesn't need to promote himself. IMO, it is part of his appeal.

Disagree with that, promoting himself is a big part of his job, his "brand".

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Except NBC already does a lot of golf and I don't think Costas has ever had anything to do with the telecasts, has he?  I believe it's always Johnny Miller and Dan Hicks.  No reason (especially now ;)) to think that they would randomly throw in Costas just because it was the Masters.

I think he's around during the US Open and Ryder Cup.  For like Op-Ed type of segments.

Originally Posted by RayG

They certainly don't need the money- Look at the prices of the concessions, and on-site only sales of swag. You can buy stuff online, but it's from some company who send folks in to buy everything they can, then sell it for 3X the price.

Agree, if they get hassled, like with the Martha Burke, they just telecast the golf commercial free like they did in '03-'04.  The tournament does bring in a lot of money for the city of Augusta.

[phan52]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

He most certainly would. He just wouldn't be allowed to participate in the proceedings.

And I don't know where you get that Costas is a "self-serving idiot". He's been doing this for a long time and certainly doesn't need to promote himself. IMO, it is part of his appeal.

Originally Posted by mvmac

Disagree with that, promoting himself is a big part of his job, his "brand".

But it's not promoting in the sense of "self-promoting". He's not doing a commercial for Bob Costas. He is giving his views on a myriad of subjcts, sometimes to the point of being a little out of context (like the gun thing during a football game).

It is what Costas does. The guy has no problem speaking his mind on any issue and anybody who knows anything about him would be aware of it.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by phan52

But it's not promoting in the sense of "self-promoting". He's not doing a commercial for Bob Costas. He is giving his views on a myriad of subjcts, sometimes to the point of being a little out of context (like the gun thing during a football game).

It is what Costas does. The guy has no problem speaking his mind on any issue and anybody who knows anything about him would be aware of it.

That's exactly what mvmac said... he's indirectly promoting himself. He's not doing a commercial for himself, doesn't have to to be self promoting.

If it's not promoting in the sense of self promoting... then what is he promoting?

Personally I find him annoying, I don't watch sports to be made aware of issues like that, I work sports to have fun and get away a bit from topics like that. As for the Augusta thing.... I have a LOT more important issues to worry about. They don't discriminate anymore, it's all about who you are/your influence. They kept Bill Gates out because of his comments, that's the way they like it there. I would say if they keep out one of the richest white guys, they aren't too worried about women or other races.