How to Effectively Create Lag on the Downswing

[boogielicious]

This is my first post. I can't imagine that lag is artificially created. It is a result is the swing imo. In the forward rotation, the arms stay totally passive and the body rotates totally forward and around with the club trying to stay behind my shoulders. The rotation will bring the hands and arms forward and the club head stays behind. It feels as if the hands ante being slung towards the target. However, eventually the club will sling forward, through the ball and out to the target. I think people lose lag when they attempt to swing the club in any way towards the balls. Ignore the ball, never swing the club or even try to hit down. Only rotate all the way forward and trust that gravity will eventually drop the club to the ball... Cause it will...every single time.

Welcome to the site @golfsos .  Thanks for posting.

[iacas]

This is my first post. I can't imagine that lag is artificially created. It is a result is the swing imo. In the forward rotation, the arms stay totally passive and the body rotates totally forward and around with the club trying to stay behind my shoulders.

We know from studying the biomechanics, and the actual use and firing of muscle groups, as well as being able to apply some physics, that this isn't at all true. The torso turns but the arms travel relative to the torso, and they're doing anything but staying totally passive. We work with a lot of players who have to be taught to use their arms more aggressively, to "get their arms down faster" or to "swing across their chest more."

The rotation will bring the hands and arms forward and the club head stays behind. It feels as if the hands ante being slung towards the target. However, eventually the club will sling forward, through the ball and out to the target. I think people lose lag when they attempt to swing the club in any way towards the balls. Ignore the ball, never swing the club or even try to hit down. Only rotate all the way forward and trust that gravity will eventually drop the club to the ball... Cause it will...every single time.

Gravity is not nearly going to act fast enough, unfortunately, and though you may "feel" that your arms are doing very little, they are active in every good full swing ever made.

Consider that if you did nothing and your arms were truly passive, the angle between your lead arm (left arm for a righty) and your chest would decrease during the downswing, while in good full swings the angle increases as the golfer fires his left arm down and away from his chest.

[golfsos]

Thanks.  I certainly can't argue with what is measured with all the great technology out there in terms of biomechanics (and I have had many different technologies strapped to me, so have seen much of it).  I just know what I perceive when trying to hit well and get to the fundamental position at impact (weight transferred, hands forward of club head, etc...).  Passive is likely a relative term -- the arms are certainly not limp and are accelerating.  I just swing better when I focus on a forward rotation and let the arms go along for most of the ride.  At the end of the rotation I do feel everything increasing in acceleration as the club head seems to start to catch up with the hands and body and increase in speed through the ball, around and towards the target (man, it is hard to describe things).  When I attempt to apply some muscle or speed with my arms, beyond what I do subconsciously I guess, the results get so much more erratic (which certainly says that the results can be erratic either way!).  I lose lag immediately, lose 5 - 10 mph of club head speed and increase the incidence of hitting the big ball first.

[iacas]

Thanks.  I certainly can't argue with what is measured with all the great technology out there in terms of biomechanics (and I have had many different technologies strapped to me, so have seen much of it).  I just know what I perceive when trying to hit well and get to the fundamental position at impact (weight transferred, hands forward of club head, etc...).  Passive is likely a relative term -- the arms are certainly not limp and are accelerating.  I just swing better when I focus on a forward rotation and let the arms go along for most of the ride.  At the end of the rotation I do feel everything increasing in acceleration as the club head seems to start to catch up with the hands and body and increase in speed through the ball, around and towards the target (man, it is hard to describe things).  When I attempt to apply some muscle or speed with my arms, beyond what I do subconsciously I guess, the results get so much more erratic (which certainly says that the results can be erratic either way!).  I lose lag immediately, lose 5 - 10 mph of club head speed and increase the incidence of hitting the big ball first.

Feel ain't real.

Welcome to the club.

[Jameson]

Talking about lag, I have an strange feeling here...

Went to the range today, and I try to relax my right wrist instead of keep it tigh, like I have been doing all past days (those days played like crap)... So inmediatly, get a really good ballstriking! it´s crazy! I don´t know nothing about golf, it drives me mad... I thought that if I could keep my right wrist strong and consciously keep the 90 degrees angle with my right forearm until strinking the ball it will create lag and distance...but no !!!!

'

Weird sensation! does somenone feels the same ? can someone provide an explanation here!!

Thanks !!!!

[mvmac]

I thought that if I could keep my right wrist strong and consciously keep the 90 degrees angle with my right forearm until strinking the ball it will create lag and distance...but no !!!!

Yeah that feel typically doesn't work, have never recommended it to a student. "Lag happens".

[MrDC]

I used to think that lag was just part of a great swing, and it doesn't really need to be forced in any way, but I'm off that, forced is the wrong word though, I think lag is just another swing thought that needs to be there, but generally only for irons, driver is such a full body whipping action that the lag is kind of created naturally, but with irons I think the thought needs to be there.

For me the triangle thought and pump drill has helped immensely, it's helped me stop casting, it's helped me hit down on the ball, it's helped accuracy, distance, so much from this one thing, lag is right up there with weight forward and steady head IMO, it's huge.

I just try to maintain the triangle- hands, left shoulder, clubhead, throughout the downswing, then release, obviously if you flip the hands the triangle is broken, done, and somehow with this swing thought I release at the right time.

[mvmac]

I used to think that lag was just part of a great swing, and it doesn't really need to be forced in any way, but I'm off that, forced is the wrong word though, I think lag is just another swing thought that needs to be there, but generally only for irons, driver is such a full body whipping action that the lag is kind of created naturally, but with irons I think the thought needs to be there.

I just try to maintain the triangle- hands, left shoulder, clubhead, throughout the downswing, then release, obviously if you flip the hands the triangle is broken, done, and somehow with this swing thought I release at the right time.

Did you check out the video in the first post? We like to say "lag happens" and it occurs through the proper body/arm sequencing. You're gradually releasing your wrist angles on the downswing whether you want to or not so it's not a good idea to "fight it".

Players that reach inline too soon (casting) have to identify why it's happening, they shouldn't just "stop" doing that. Most players see progress with their impact conditions by improving their pivot and weight transfer.

I have used the pump drill myself and with students to speed up the arms on the downswing but there are plenty of ways to "fix" casting, it depends on the player and their priority.

lag is right up there with weight forward and steady head IMO, it's huge.

We agree but it's important to note the the Keys aren't swing thoughts. You don't work on Steady Head by focusing on keeping your head steady.

[iacas]

Did you check out the video in the first post? We like to say "lag happens" and it occurs through the proper body/arm sequencing. You're gradually releasing your wrist angles on the downswing whether you want to or not so it's not a good idea to "fight it".

Players that reach inline too soon (casting) have to identify why it's happening, they shouldn't just "stop" doing that. Most players see progress with their impact conditions by improving their pivot and weight transfer.

I have used the pump drill myself and with students to speed up the arms on the downswing but there are plenty of ways to "fix" casting, it depends on the player and their priority.

We agree but it's important to note the the Keys aren't swing thoughts. You don't work on Steady Head by focusing on keeping your head steady.

@MrDC , read the post quoted here a few times, please. Great response.

[EMiller]

I think James is being careful here not share too much from someone else's lesson because it's a move or a sensation that works for that player and is compatible to their grip, rates, etc. The video gives you some good visuals and I like what James said here, " The key piece as mike demonstrated is making sure the elbow doesn't start internally rotating too fast (palm down) . .... And actually is gradual straightening (lowering the arms) so the upper center doesn't start moving back."

I think this statement just changed my life! The thought of keeping the right palm facing outwards helps keep lag rather than trying to have " active wrists" similar to swinging a tennis raquet. This also prevents casting. I don't care how hard you trying to swing in-out if you're casting the face is coming out-in.

[mvmac]

I don't care how hard you trying to swing in-out if you're casting the face is coming out-in.

Correct.

I think this statement just changed my life! The thought of keeping the right palm facing outwards helps keep lag rather than trying to have " active wrists" similar to swinging a tennis raquet. This also prevents casting.

Don't lose focus on your pieces, fix the cause, not the effect. The position of the right palm is farther down the list of priorities for you.

[Golfer20]

Great post Mike!  This is something that I have been thinking about for quite some time (probably a bit too much!)  However what would you say to someone that appears to keep getting their arms "stuck" behind them with level shoulders?  Not trying to turn this into a "my swing" thread just curious about this one particular aspect of a swing!

I try to emulate the sensation of dropping the arms down and keeping the handle low to the ground as mentioned in the video.  I just can't move my hands directly in front of my thigh when the club is parallel!

[mvmac]

Great post Mike!  This is something that I have been thinking about for quite some time (probably a bit too much!)  However what would you say to someone that appears to keep getting their arms "stuck" behind them with level shoulders?

One that I've been liking lately is the feel that you're straightening the right arm "past you". Almost like you had a spear in your right hand and you're trying to stick it into the ground to a spot just in front of the golf ball.

There could also be some backswing stuff that's making this piece harder for you but this is generally good feel.

[ChiralClubs]

I'm definitely someone who needs to do more of this.  I do notice that when I implement these feels as much as I can, I end up with low flying push-fades.  I think this is because I end up hitting the ball with an open clubface, but "later" in my swing than I am used to, such that my arms have started to move in.

[Crazycanuck44]

I have  a hard time keeping the ball low, which is something that I would love to do. Where I'm located we have mostly windy days and I'm talking windy.. lol Maybe I'm not keeping the angle enough.

This image has helped me I think of the arrows when I swing down.

[saevel25]

With the recent video of Sergio on how he creates lag. I found this video informative on why trying to gauge lag on just a face on view is not really possible without knowing the way the hands move, how deep the hands are, and how steep or shallow the shaft is. 

Next time they talk about a PGA Tour player's lag they might want to find a better way to measure it from something other than a face-on view. 

[coop6]

Very good thread! Makes a lot of sense, plus seeing the exaggerated elbow to navel with hips shifting forward may help me a lot.

[nevets88]

14 hours ago, saevel25 said:

With the recent video of Sergio on how he creates lag. I found this video informative on why trying to gauge lag on just a face on view is not really possible without knowing the way the hands move, how deep the hands are, and how steep or shallow the shaft is. 

Next time they talk about a PGA Tour player's lag they might want to find a better way to measure it from something other than a face-on view. 

Looking at the comments in the video, it cleared things up for more than a few people.