I Hate Getting Paired Up With "That Guy"

[jlh1508]

Originally Posted by fishontro

I know a guy like "that guy", he invited me out to play once. Not knowing he was "that guy", I accepted.

I used to be a decent player in my early 20's, but a knee reconstruction, marriage, a few kids, you know...life got in the way of golf.

So, I had just started up again when he invited me out. I was a bit nervous, playing my old stomping grounds again and knowing how I used to play the course.

First 2 holes, think I was at 2 over and I snapped hooked my drive on 3. "that guy" started it up ..."I think your clearing your hips to early..."

I gave him a quick smile,"Thanks Haney, what did you get on that par 5? 8 or was it 9?" The worst part is, he knows he's at a 20 ghin, but talks like he's a 3.

He did not get the hint as he kept at it even when I was obviously ignoring him. He ruined the round for me, waste of $60 and 5 hours of my life.

Needless to say, I won't golf him again.

On the other hand, I play with a scratch golfer and ASKED him "If you see something, let me know."

I don't get this at all.

So a scratch golfer automatically knows the swing and how to teach it better then a high handicapper?  Playing and teaching are not the same thing,  someone with a high handicap may very well know the principles of the swing and how to teach those principles without having the physical ability to put them into practice in their own swing.  So I wouldn't just listen t the scratch golfer and ignore the high handicapper.  With that said, I do not believe advice should be given out unsolicited, especially on the course

But going back to your round with the high handicapper and him not getting the hints.  Here is an idea instead of giving hints, why not just tell him, you would prefer to not receive swing advice on the course.  Whatever happened to just telling people what is going on, instead of dancing around the issue?

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by jlh1508

Whatever happened to just telling people what is going on, instead of dancing around the issue?

SCORE!!!

Apparently it's been replaced with:  hints, snide and rude comments, mean put downs, and apparently physical threats.

I'd also accept, upset stomach, headaches, and intestinal issues.

However, I did learn a couple hints from this thread - the primary being to take off the head cover before teeing off with my 3w.  I think I gained nearly 40 yards from that (nearly double).

[Tar Baby]

This is a general problem in society.. We are all human with human reactions and emotions. So much is hidden and it ultimately kicks the can down the road to the general detriment. Brutal and hurtful honesty may be too much but to be upfront and say that some certain thing... Advice during the golf round being the example here... Is not something that you have a desire for at the moment should be fine. A well balanced individual will generally not be offended by it and adjust his behavior accordingly.

[saevel25]

I don't mind tips during a golf round. But when a person goes around and blatently says your doing something wrong. For example, this guy i play against, and sometimes paired up with when were not competing. We'll talk about our golf swings. We have similar ideas. I don't mind chatting about golf swing concepts. But the guy who just spouts off, "Oh your doing that wrong", especially when your kicking his ass. Yea, its a little annoying and presumptious. Now, i wont go out and tell him to shut up, i can just ignore it. But those type of guys are annoying. I am talking about complete strangers, or people you don't know well. I have a friend who i occasionally play golf with, when i am up in the north east part of ohio. I had a tough time chipping, and he said, "Your lifting your head up". I thought, really, i was. This guy has a hell of a short game and wedge play. But i know the guy, he's a good guy, so that doesn't bother me.

I guess for me, i am a quiet person most of the time. I don't chit chat much. I am not good at small talk. So i don't get the whole chatty people that much. I guess if i was able to chat well enough, I probably wouldn't mind that type of person, since i would be a chatty person as well. Since i am not, i guess i rather just not be talked to as much or given advice when i don't want it.

[hendog]

IMHO...

Never offer advice to a stranger. Period.

If stranger asks your opinion, start with obvious observations with the chance that they are not obvious to them.

If they persist and want help you should simply help them score better by offering smarter strategies for their game. Like teeing it up on the right side and aiming down the left for slicers or not always going for it and hitting easier clubs more often. Course management stuff.

I played with a kid yesterday who was pretty good. He needed a bogey on the last hole to shoot 79 which he said he had never done. He hit a poor tee shot and had no angle to the green. He tried to punch it through the trees to get a short pitch to the green. He hit another tree and still had almost no shot at the green. He pulled off a great shot to get over the green but could not get up and down and shot 80. I simply told him he should have pitched his second shot out to where I was and then hit it on and 2 putted.

The golf swing is very personal and even if you do the same things as I do the way we each think about it are not necessarily the same. If more people simply understood the basic shot shapes and what swing paths and club face angles caused them they could make adjustments themselves. So if someone asks, just educate them or suggest they educate themselves.

[fishontro]

Originally Posted by jlh1508

I don't get this at all.

So a scratch golfer automatically knows the swing and how to teach it better then a high handicapper?  Playing and teaching are not the same thing,  someone with a high handicap may very well know the principles of the swing and how to teach those principles without having the physical ability to put them into practice in their own swing.  So I wouldn't just listen t the scratch golfer and ignore the high handicapper.  With that said, I do not believe advice should be given out unsolicited, especially on the course

But going back to your round with the high handicapper and him not getting the hints.  Here is an idea instead of giving hints, why not just tell him, you would prefer to not receive swing advice on the course.  Whatever happened to just telling people what is going on, instead of dancing around the issue?

What's not to get, if someone is better at something than you, they might know more.

Do you know this golfer I speak of? Oh, that's right you have now idea that he grew up on the course, was shooting under 80 at 10, has a very solid game and has helped me get back to where he knows I can play.

I said "On the other hand, I play with a scratch golfer and ASKED him "If you see something, let me know."... This guy is a friend of mine, knows my situation and knows how I used to play.

The other dude  I had the dis-pleasure of playing with, is a douche. We have mutual friends and he invited me to play. I wish you could see his swing and temperament, as it does not support "the principles of the swing and how to teach those principles without having the physical ability to put them into practice in their own swing."

So, YES,  I would be more inclined to take the advice a player who shoots 70-73 over a one who shoots 95-105.

If you like taking advice from someone you can beat on the course, go ahead.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by fishontro

If you like taking advice from someone you can beat on the course, go ahead.

In general I agree with you. I probably don't want to hear a word from somebody I can beat by 10 strokes on my worst day.

But then I also really don't want to hear anything from someone just because they are better than I am either. Maybe they use a different swing with different rules. They probably have no idea what I am trying to do and what they think is wrong may not be wrong at all.

The best player I know knows surprisingly little about how he does what he does. He can tell people what he feels he is doing but not what he is actually doing. That's fairly rare these days since most people use video and know exactly what they are doing but he never uses video. He really wouldn't be a good coach at all.

My brother was that way in baseball. He was an outstanding player growing up, but it was comical to me how little he knew about the mechanics in the game when he decided to coach a youth summer league team one year. He came to my house almost every evening telling me what he was teaching the kids and asking if it was right. A big part of the time it wasn't. The one thing he had going for him was that he didn't mind going back the next day and telling the players he was wrong and tried to get it right. Not many good players would do that.

All of the pros that have coaches are "taking advice from someone" they can "beat on the course" and it works just fine but outside of that coach/player relationship where they know that swing it's best to take any advice from random players with a grain of salt at best.

[inthehole]

depends on the situation ... recently I played with a much better golfer than myself who was surprised at the game I have based on the relatively short time I've been playing, except for putting which costs me an inordinate amount of strokes.      He gave me some great putting advice & I was really appreciative.

I've played with many others and only one time did I offer advice because the guy was in his 20's, in great shape, should have potential to be good, but was so unbelievably awful (hitting out of his shoes & slicing everything 100 yds deep into the woods off the tee EVERY time). ... I just mentioned that I had the same problem & read up everything I could find on Stack and Tilt swing & it helped me totally eliminate my slice.      All I got from him was "yeah, I noticed your S&T; swing ... my instructor told me to stay as far away from that as I can" ... just had to laugh under my breath, sit in my cart with arms crossed while he dug balls out of the woods all afternoon, while shooting one of my best rounds of the year (I think when you face a situation like that it either consciously or subconsciously makes you want to work hard to even play better to prove a point) !!

[jlh1508]

Originally Posted by fishontro

What's not to get, if someone is better at something than you, they might know more.

If you like taking advice from someone you can beat on the course, go ahead.

and yet Tiger woods has a swing coach and Micheal Jordan listened to Phil Jackson

Again playing and teaching/coaching are not the same thing

[MackJL06]

As I've gotten better over the years, something sure stands out.

-Better players tend to let you play your game, and reserve their comments-

Is it because they finally discovered the secret and dont want you to know!? Well, it is a couple things. For one, you are unlikely to find a life-altering "fix" for your swing mid-round that saves your round. Another, they have learned that the game is built on an understanding of their own golf-swing, and offering a few coaching cliches is probably going to cause more harm and confusion than resolution. They havent spent their hours understanding your tempo, swing thoughts, mechanics.

I will never give any swing advice unless asked. A player might duff a handfull of shots and get frustrated and my coaching instinct will kick in and i'll say something like "hang in there, you'll figure it out. keep with it". When they ask me how I manage to do certain things I give them my 10Thousand Foot view:

What am I asking the ball to do?

Sure, I can spew off the ball flight laws we've all come to learn about/love here with:

"the ball starts in the direction of the clubface and curves away from the swingpath"

but I try to keep the thoughts and ideas simple...once you get to thinking about 200 different things, you're probably not going to be successful.

to sum all of that nonsense up...

if youre trying to give advice:

- youre not going to fix someone's swing in an afternoon of golf. if they ask for help, give them some knowledge and understanding of why things happen, and give them the tools to make a change

if youre asking for advice:

-nobody is going to fix your swing from the front 9 to the back 9. dont expect it to happen. try to learn why a better player does certain things. get yourself in a better, more consistent position.

[EpicNorCalGolf]

I don't know that I've got a whole bunch of innovative comments to add here, but i agree with the OP... it drives me absolutely insane when someone tries to give me advice in the middle of a round. In my experience, the first guy to give advice is usually the last one who should be giving it. That said, I often find myself fighting the urge to give someone, especially someone who's clearly just starting out and struggling, a little tip here and there. And every time I can't resist, I immediately say to myself, "you hate when people do that." If I'm playing with someone who's clearly a low single digit, I'll often pick their brain and try to remember something to take to the range. An that's the point, even if it is good advice, in most cases if you're going to make a fundamental change in your swing, you don't want to do it in the middle of a round.

[Ernest Jones]

I don't know that I've got a whole bunch of innovative comments to add here, but i agree with the OP... it drives me absolutely insane when someone tries to give me advice in the middle of a round. In my experience, the first guy to give advice is usually the last one who should be giving it. That said, I often find myself fighting the urge to give someone, especially someone who's clearly just starting out and struggling, a little tip here and there. And every time I can't resist, I immediately say to myself, "you hate when people do that." If I'm playing with someone who's clearly a low single digit, I'll often pick their brain and try to remember something to take to the range. An that's the point, even if it is good advice, in most cases if you're going to make a fundamental change in your swing, you don't want to do it in the middle of a round.

No kidding! I don't even like changing which pocket I keep my divot tool in during a round. :-P

[BugDude]

I also play as a single and get paired up with a lot of folks.  It's a great way to meet people in a new area.

I agree with you.  I NEVER give anyone any tips or advice unless they specifically ask me for it.

I had some regular playing buddies in Virginia I played with a lot.  One guy, a really good golfer, was having a terrible day.  Finally on hole 16 he hit a terrible shot and turned to me and asked, "what the heck am I doing wrong?" and I replied very simply with what I saw different compared to his normal swing.  He put another ball down and hit it beautifully.  He looked at me and asked, "Why didn't you tell me that 16 holes ago?" and I replied, "You didn't ask."

I played with a guy several weeks ago and I was only 1 over par through 13 holes.  I usually hit a very consistent draw and suddenly started blocking it out to the right on 14 - 18.  Ended up shooting a 75, but on every shot the guy kept telling me I was blocking it out to the right and his thoughts as to why.  Well, I knew that and I knew why, I just couldn't stop it because I was tired.  Hands getting low at the top of the backswing, coming in from too far inside, and I was swaying back a little too.  I agree with you, It was annoying.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by turtleback

You are that guy.  How you play is irrelevant.  Unsolicited swing advice is never appropriate.

This sums it up for me. I'm not going to give you any tips or ask any questions about your game unless you ask me to. I'm not even going to commentate on my own swing or my results with you unless we're casually shooting some bs back and forth about our game together. Aside from that, I'm just going to be laid back and go with the flow.

Overstepping yourself and offering advice, or "noticing" things that someone is doing and mentioning it to them is not something that you should do unless they ask you. I won't even say, "Hey, do you mind if I give you some advice?" or "I noticed you were doing this ....on that swing". I think it is just going to take that one guy that is taking his game too seriously on that given day to tell someone to F off before they stop offering advice lol.

Though, if someone attempts to give me advice I am simply not listening. I know my game and I know my limitations. I also know that I have full confidence in who I pay for lessons, so I can easily shrug off on-the-course-advice from people while having a beer and tuning them out.

[MexBurtReynolds]

Usually bring up the Civil War.  Can tell by golf bag or golf towel, if they want to talk about it great, if not, usually pipe down.

I think the worst is "have not played this bad in "x-years", while telling me he shoots a sub-80 round at such-and-such.  Riiiight.

[Doctorfro]

To the OP.....I get it.  But my advice is to nod, say thanks, and go on about your round.  There are all kinds of folks playing golf (some very nice, some soooo annoying).  Learning to be polite yet focus on your own game is a good skill to learn.  You don't have to be best buddies with the guys you get paired with, but you don't have to be an a**hole either.  We all have different motivations for playing the game but a common denominator for most of us is to have fun.  Keep your perspective and keep swinging your sticks.  It's all good.

[tomvk77]

I never give unwanted advice. If they ask me i will give them something to work on.

If i give advice i will give a some sort of drill also, it's so easy to say your swaying.

but specially on course it's easy if you add " if you take your stands turn your knees outside.

you than lock your hips from swaying.

So i think it's the kind off advice you get also.

And I am totally with you guys i hate it when people give advice and don't actually know what there talking about.

We had a same discussion going at my my swing treat.

But what i hate more is a slow playing person, last time i was playing with a guy, he took at least 5 min before he hit a putt,

looking the line from the back, from the front, from the side. than he places his ball, leaving the marker behind it, checking the line again.

than he would lay his ball on the line he thinks is right, 5 practice stroke's and checks the line again, 2 practice strokes more and than make

such a crappy stroke the ball never ever getting in the hole.

As it was a qualifying round i gave him a stroke penalty for slow play. the other competitor totally agreed with me on that call.

[Jim Ludden]

I'm a mid single digit player and am very outgoing, friendly guy. Everyone has a bad round where it's just not "working" that day on the course. That's golf. One day I was having one of those days and just couldn't hit a solid shot and was looking at a high 80's round. One of the fellows I was paired up with just couldn't contain himself and said "mind if I give you some advise on your swing?" I said, "yes I do mind as I work with my instructor for my game but I appreciate it anyway". This is up front and stops anymore wanting to help me out for the round and hopefully makes a point the maybe his advise isn't welcome. Most of the time i find these people are usually the mid handicaps that are the ones trying to help.