Is slow play ever justifiable?

[ghalfaire]

I see a lot of these posts blame the beginner and poor player of being responsible for slow play.  Just ain't so, joe.   Slow play and bad play don't necessarily go together.  Neither is it true that being a good player and being a fast player necessarily go together.  I think the slowest player I ever played with was 1 or 2 handicap and he never finished a round in anything less that 4 1/2 hours and usually was closer to 5 hours.  Slow play is caused by a lot of different things but being a high handicap player isn't one of them.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I see a lot of these posts blame the beginner and poor player of being responsible for slow play.  Just ain't so, joe.   Slow play and bad play don't necessarily go together.  Neither is it true that being a good player and being a fast player necessarily go together.  I think the slowest player I ever played with was 1 or 2 handicap and he never finished a round in anything less that 4 1/2 hours and usually was closer to 5 hours.  Slow play is caused by a lot of different things but being a high handicap player isn't one of them.

The difference is the frustration factor. You know what you're not doing waiting for a guy playing to a 2, watching them chase balls all over the course. You're not waiting on them to get out of your way anywhere but the greens because they're taking minimal strokes that cover greater distances everywhere else.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

The difference is the frustration factor. You know what you're not doing waiting for a guy playing to a 2, watching them chase balls all over the course. You're not waiting on them to get out of your way anywhere but the greens because they're taking minimal strokes that cover greater distances everywhere else.

If I see someone genuinely trying to play, or learn the sport of Golf, I can muster up some patience. If I see a foursome of guys that look like they're just there to be asses and kill time and/or get sauced up, that's a different story.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by Spyder

If I see someone genuinely trying to play, or learn the sport of Golf, I can muster up some patience. If I see a foursome of guys that look like they're just there to be asses and kill time and/or get sauced up, that's a different story.

Honestly I don't think some people understand the difference.

[sofingaw]

I've never broken 110, and I've also never played in more than 4 1/2 hours. I play every shot, every hole, too. Even if I am looking at a 12 on a hole. I've never had an issue. It's all about ready golf, taking a couple clubs with you, and being considerate.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by sofingaw

I've never broken 110, and I've also never played in more than 4 1/2 hours. I play every shot, every hole, too. Even if I am looking at a 12 on a hole. I've never had an issue.

It's all about ready golf, taking a couple clubs with you, and being considerate.

You can play in my group ANY day!

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I see a lot of these posts blame the beginner and poor player of being responsible for slow play.  Just ain't so, joe.   Slow play and bad play don't necessarily go together.  Neither is it true that being a good player and being a fast player necessarily go together.  I think the slowest player I ever played with was 1 or 2 handicap and he never finished a round in anything less that 4 1/2 hours and usually was closer to 5 hours.  Slow play is caused by a lot of different things but being a high handicap player isn't one of them.

This!  There are a ton of reasons for slow play at my home course that have nothing to do with skill level.

1. We have a number of elderly people at my course that like to walk.  They walk slow, swing slow, putt slow...you get the idea.
2. We have a number of lady golfers that like to play golf and chit chat.  Lots of gossip not so much golf.
3. We have aspiring pro's (in their own mind) who all learned to play golf like Keegan Bradley, requiring long pre-shot routines before they take a swing.
4. Members with guests that spend more time talking business than playing golf.

There's a difference between being slow and taking a longer time to finish a round.  A new golfer will take 30+ more swings, which means walking up to 30 more shots, 30 more club selections, 30+ pre-shot routines, spend more time looking for their ball in the woods and rough, etc.  If a 10 handicap golfer takes 4 1/2 hours to finish a round, they are slow.  If a person shooting 125 takes 4 1/2 hours they are moving pretty quickly.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

If a person shooting 125 takes 4 1/2 hours they are moving pretty quickly.

Which would require a ton of penalty strokes because straight up 125 strokes in 270 minutes isn't happening. Not even Bubba's hovercraft gets around the course that quick.

[sofingaw]

Which would require a ton of penalty strokes because straight up 125 strokes in 270 minutes isn't happening. Not even Bubba's hovercraft gets around the course that quick.

'A ton' is relative, as are most terms in golf. Maybe 5-10? 100-120 strokes actually taken. No prob in 4.5 hrs, playing in a foursome. As long as its just one guy doing this. My playing partners shoot 90's usually. If all 4 of us were taking well over 100, different story I think.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Which would require a ton of penalty strokes because straight up 125 strokes in 270 minutes isn't happening. Not even Bubba's hovercraft gets around the course that quick.

That's my point, even if the guy ran to the ball and played ready golf he's still going to take more than 4.5 hours.  Double par on a standard course is around 142, so picking up the ball at double par still results in a pretty long round.

[2ironfrenzy]

100 for 9 holes isn't golf. It's learning to hit a ball with a club, and should happen on the range, not on the course.

. ^this times infinity!!!

[johnclayton1982]

Slow play can't be criticize without an objective standard.  Nobody thinks they are slow (or at least the vast, vast minority of slow players *actually think of themselves* as slow players).  The guy who you think is the slowest player at your club playing five hour rounds is reading this right now, nodding, remembering the time he got stuck behind a six hour guy and thinking "man, I hate slow players too."

Thats the problem with these threads.  Without the course telling you what "slow play" is, everyone just posts up that they hate slow play while nobody thinks "I'm a slow player".  Its not objective - its subjective.  Thats why the duty is on the course to either post what is considered a fast round or shut it.  There is a 9-hole by my in-laws i play during thinksgiving. It has a sign posted telling people they shouldn't take more than 1 hour to play the nine (its very easy, 5 par 3s).  If they didn't have a sign, and i took an hour and a half, am i playing slow?  Who knows!

Either the course has posted a time-for-round limit or it hasn't.  If it hasn't, tell them they should.  If you play on a course without rules regarding pace of play, don't complain.  All you're doing is projecting your opinion of "slow" on everyone else, none of whom there is ever any hope of getting to agree with you that they are in fact slow.  IN other words, if they pay the $60 they get to play the round they want unless the club has posted otherwise - there is no universal "slow round" absent a clear rule.

[David in FL]

Slow play can't be criticize without an objective standard.  Nobody thinks they are slow (or at least the vast, vast minority of slow players *actually think of themselves* as slow players).  The guy who you think is the slowest player at your club playing five hour rounds is reading this right now, nodding, remembering the time he got stuck behind a six hour guy and thinking "man, I hate slow players too." Thats the problem with these threads.  Without the course telling you what "slow play" is, everyone just posts up that they hate slow play while nobody thinks "I'm a slow player".  Its not objective - its subjective.  Thats why the duty is on the course to either post what is considered a fast round or shut it.  There is a 9-hole by my in-laws i play during thinksgiving. It has a sign posted telling people they shouldn't take more than 1 hour to play the nine (its very easy, 5 par 3s).  If they didn't have a sign, and i took an hour and a half, am i playing slow?  Who knows! Either the course has posted a time-for-round limit or it hasn't.  If it hasn't, tell them they should.  If you play on a course without rules regarding pace of play, don't complain.  All you're doing is projecting your opinion of "slow" on everyone else, none of whom there is ever any hope of getting to agree with you that they are in fact slow.  IN other words, if they pay the $60 they get to play the round they want unless the club has posted otherwise - there is no universal "slow round" absent a clear rule.

Whether its specifically "defined" or not, as Justice Potter Stewart famously said, we all "know it when we see it"! Furthermore, it's up to experienced players to set the example for those who haven't been playing long enough to have that kind of perspective. I agree though, a lot of courses could do a much better job communicating expectations. A 4-ball should easily expect to get around in 4:00 - 4:15, no matter their skill level. Anything longer than 4:30 is a death march....

[nevets88]

Justifiable? Is that you Raylan Givens?

It's a moot point. Slow play is pretty much a given. Just have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by David in FL

I agree though, a lot of courses could do a much better job communicating expectations. A 4-ball should easily expect to get around in 4:00 - 4:15, no matter their skill level. Anything longer than 4:30 is a death march....

4:30 in my area is speedy. Big metro areas, 5:30 to 6 on weekends is the norm. That is slow play. 7 is the longest I've ever experienced. Never again.

[Jake Goodman]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Which would require a ton of penalty strokes because straight up 125 strokes in 270 minutes isn't happening. Not even Bubba's hovercraft gets around the course that quick.

Been there done that, and it didn't take lot more than 3 hours. If there is no-one in the front of you in the course it is easy to be fast even if you are walking and taking a lot of shuts (and penalties).

Like said before being high handicap and taking a lot of shuts does not mean you have to be slow.

Elderly peoples should be tolerates even if they are playing a bit slow, since most of us will be there before the end.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

Slow play can't be criticize without an objective standard.

Either the course has posted a time-for-round limit or it hasn't.

I play a half dozen courses regularly and all but one have posted POP expectations, one actually has clocks on the tee boxes. Two go beyond that and suggest what tees should be played based on handicap. The one that doesn't have anything posted is a private club and it's the fastest course to play. I don't play there as often as I'd like because I'm a guest but the difference is the type of golfer I see out there. Even the elderly members get around the course quickly.

But you're right and I mentioned the same thing earlier. I don't think some people understand the difference. But I don't think having a POP policy posted does much to change the minds of the oblivious. Honestly I really don't care unless it's dreadfully slow. Most days I'm a single on a open course and I'll drag ass out there because I don't have anything better to do and I enjoy being on the course. If someone catches me I'll speed up.

The only thing that drives me nuts is when it's obvious one slow group is causing a backup and I get people waiting on me. It has a way of getting into my head and I play poorly than usual. It's frustrating enough playing to a 12, as you can imagine that's some pretty ugly golf at times. If it gets to the point where it becomes a round of looking forwards and back all day, deciding when it's safe to hit in an attempt to stay between the group and ahead and behind I don't feel like I'm golfing as much as managing my time. It has a way of disrupting the flow of the course and people get antsy. The few times it got to the point where we had 2-3 groups waiting on boxes I walked off the course. Just not worth it. But it doesn't get to that often.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

Whether its specifically "defined" or not, as Justice Potter Stewart famously said, we all "know it when we see it"!

But the problem is everyone on this board has a totally different definition of what "slow" is.  My saturday rounds take about 4 hours and twenty minutes.  Is that slow?

I dunno.  My course says four and a half hour max.  That makes four hours twenty minutes reasonable.

It is *completely pointless* to discuss slow play without posted round limits.

[NotPortlyNJ]

I learned to play on a par three course. Most people who played at that course (and I'm guessing most people that frequent par 3 courses) were bad players, novices like I was. Good place to start the game. If they are taking that long on a full length course then they are not ready for big boy golf.

That's why I'm playing an executive course nearby. I warn people that I'm new and that I suck and the response is always "so do we that's why we're here" :)