Pace of Play - Etiquette Question

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Spyder

In literally 8 instances, I waited for them to tee off and waited nearly 5 minutes before I could even step foot in the box, on top of another 10-15 minutes for them to make it a safe distance off of the tee for me to hit.

If the group in front of you is waiting 8 different times, no matter how delusional they are about their own strength, they aren't the problem, because they are obviously keeping up.

I only mention this because every time we have some sort of "slow play pet peeve" thread, inevitably, several people complain about the "guy who waits for the green to clear on a par 5 when he has 280 to go and he only hit his drive 220."  Fact is, he's still waiting on somebody else, and unless he has other egregious slow play habits, he's not slowing anybody down.  You'll wait an extra couple of minutes on the tee, but less in the fairway, or less on the next tee.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

If the group in front of you is waiting 8 different times, no matter how delusional they are about their own strength, they aren't the problem, because they are obviously keeping up.

I only mention this because every time we have some sort of "slow play pet peeve" thread, inevitably, several people complain about the "guy who waits for the green to clear on a par 5 when he has 280 to go and he only hit his drive 220."  Fact is, he's still waiting on somebody else, and unless he has other egregious slow play habits, he's not slowing anybody down.  You'll wait an extra couple of minutes on the tee, but less in the fairway, or less on the next tee.

You're misinterpreting the initial 5 minute wait that I stated. That is how long it took me to get to the next tee and tell them that they were clear to play as I know every rolling fairway, nook and cranny this course has to offer. I did offer to play through if they didn't mind, but when I saw the traffic behind me and in front of these two buzzards, I decided to stay put and help push them through the course.

It wasn't all bad because I did talk with them a little bit and guide them when they asked for direction the times I caught them on the tee. I then paired up with the threesome behind me for the final two holes and that was fun as well.

I just can't help but bitch when I play a 6 hour solo round, regardless of who or what is at fault - that is just extreme! lol

[phan52]

We have a guy at our club who has a reputation as a slow player. The reputation is earned, but he is aware of it and is trying to make an effort to speed it up a bit (part of his setup routine is to tell a story that is better served told at the 19th hole).  I was playing in a group last week and the pace was slow. The guy with the reputation was in a group a couple of holes ahead of us and a guy in our group kept bringing him up as the reason for the pace. I noticed on numerous occasions that they were keeping up with the group in front, so it wasn't their fault. I had to defend the guy, but nobody was listening. Reputations are hard to get rid of.

[mp33 man]

My personal gauge is that, to be keeping up with the group in front, you should at least be teeing off before they have completed the hole (unless it's a par 3).  Ideally you would be ready to tee off by the time they clear the fairway, but sometimes on any given hole things can happen to affect that.   I'm particularly sensitive to pace of play lately because I've had some really crappy experiences.  This weekend I got really frustrated during my round of 18+9(replay) and during my round of 18 on Memorial Day.  The reason isn't simply because it was slow, but because of why.  At one point on both courses I could see that the course really was NOT that packed, but that there was one group with 2+ holes clear in front of them and then several groups between them and myself.  When I realized that I was pissed.  One group jamming up an entire f**kin course.   I wonder what a marshal is realistically going to do in that situation?  You can urge them to play faster, but if they can't speed it up, then what?

I just had one of these moments on the highway, lady trying to text and drive while driving 55mph in a 70 and in the left lane :)

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the course management has any real concerns about the majority of their customers, the ranger will have the authority to make the slow group pick up and move ahead until they close the gap.  The trouble with that is that the groups behind them who have done nothing wrong are now out of position and a hole and a half back.  That is why, to be effective, the rangers must stay on top of things from the start.  Allowing a group to get 2 holes behind is unacceptable.  New in cart GPS systems can help with group tracking, but most courses still can't justify that sort of an investment, so rangers need to be properly trained, then be authorized to do what is necessary to keep the entire course on pace.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I have no idea exactly how it played out, but based on the "evidence" I saw, it looks like the marshal thought those guys were playing too slowly and made them skip the entire 6th hole to catch back up with the group ahead.

My dad and father-in-law played Pebble Beach earlier this year (jerks didn't invite me) and they got a forecaddie.  They said that the pro shop will warn you, if you don't get caddies or a forecaddie, and choose to go it alone, if you fall behind you WILL be required to skip a hole as necessary to keep pace.

I hadn't thought about forcing the group to skip a hole.  That seems like a good solution.  It's penal but still allows them to finish the round and not be under too much additional pressure.

Also agree with Fourputt that the best strategy is to never let it get that bad.  Because it was Memorial Day and I saw lots of cars in the parking lot, I assumed the course was jam-packed.  It wasn't until the 13th hole that there was an angle/view to be able to see the layout of the course and where each group in front of me was at.  When I noticed 2 empty holes at 16 and 17 I got upset.

GD, 10 minute tee times sounds like a dream.  That's how it was when I played in an NCGA tourney.  Dealing with 5-6 hour rounds is the type of thing that makes me wish I could afford joining a snooty country-club full of guys I'd probably not even wanna play with .  The only private clubs I've played at (2-3 times) had no pace-of-play issues.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

GD, 10 minute tee times sounds like a dream.  That's how it was when I played in an NCGA tourney.  Dealing with 5-6 hour rounds is the type of thing that makes me wish I could afford joining a snooty country-club full of guys I'd probably not even wanna play with .  The only private clubs I've played at (2-3 times) had no pace-of-play issues.

Yeah, no kidding!  Even with my buddies frequent player discount card, it's still a pricey course.  I would love to always play a course with 10 minute intervals, or on country clubs.

I'm spoiled now every time I go to visit my family up north because my brother just got back into golf and joined a very reasonably priced country club that also has no pace of play issues.

I also sometimes wish I could afford to join a CC, then I remember that I'd be playing the same course over and over again, and that would probably get boring after awhile.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

GD, 10 minute tee times sounds like a dream.  That's how it was when I played in an NCGA tourney.  Dealing with 5-6 hour rounds is the type of thing that makes me wish I could afford joining a snooty country-club full of guys I'd probably not even wanna play with .  The only private clubs I've played at (2-3 times) had no pace-of-play issues.

Yeah, no kidding!  Even with my buddies frequent player discount card, it's still a pricey course.  I would love to always play a course with 10 minute intervals, or on country clubs.

I'm spoiled now every time I go to visit my family up north because my brother just got back into golf and joined a very reasonably priced country club that also has no pace of play issues.

I also sometimes wish I could afford to join a CC, then I remember that I'd be playing the same course over and over again, and that would probably get boring after awhile.

Most of the Colorado Mountain courses I've played have 10 minute tee times.  I admit that it's rarely been an issue for me because I usually play them during the week when it's easy to get on.  I've had the problem of not actually wanting to play alone, but having no choice because there was nobody else near me on the tee sheet.

[newtogolf]

My home course just brought in a new management team and the speed demons of the club must have gotten their ear because the new rules for the season came out today, mostly addressing pace of play.

• Tee times will now be spaced at 9 minute intervals down from 12 minutes last season.
• Only allowed 2 minutes to look for your ball, after that ball should be played as if woods are water hazard (no drop zone) with penalty if provisional wasn't hit.
• Tee boxes are determined by handicap, only 0-10 handicaps can play from the tips.  If you're playing from the wrong tees and out of position the ranger will issue a warning.  Multiple warnings result in loss of course privileges for a week.
• If age + handicap is > 100 must play from gold tees.

This should be an interesting season.

[jetsknicks1]

IF in fact the marshal told them they were holding up play and IF in fact they were keeping up with the group ahead of them, then the marshal was out of line.

Agreed. You can only play as fast as the group ahead of you. I live in an area with a lot of retirees/snow birds, players as well as rangers and its not unusual to have a ranger talk to our group about holding up the groups behind us, as we stand on the box waiting for the group ahead of us to clear.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Tee boxes are determined by handicap, only 0-10 handicaps can play from the tips.  If you're playing from the wrong tees and out of position the ranger will issue a warning.  Multiple warnings result in loss of course privileges for a week.

If age + handicap is > 100 must play from gold tees.

I doubt that is going to go over well.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

My home course just brought in a new management team and the speed demons of the club must have gotten their ear because the new rules for the season came out today, mostly addressing pace of play.

Tee times will now be spaced at 9 minute intervals down from 12 minutes last season.

Only allowed 2 minutes to look for your ball, after that ball should be played as if woods are water hazard (no drop zone) with penalty if provisional wasn't hit.

Tee boxes are determined by handicap, only 0-10 handicaps can play from the tips.  If you're playing from the wrong tees and out of position the ranger will issue a warning.  Multiple warnings result in loss of course privileges for a week.

If age + handicap is > 100 must play from gold tees.

This should be an interesting season.

There's a few courses here with similar policies. I don't have a problem with it but I know it's not being enforced, though the lost ball thing is suspect. They didn't even suggest what tees to play from when I mentioned it was my first time there. Short of producing a USGA handicap card or verifying it on-line before tee times I can't see how to enforce it. A few places have simply removed markers from what should be the furthest tees, the tips are now one or two from the back.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I doubt that is going to go over well.

That wouldn't work at all around here... Almost nobody has a handicap.

Even the guys in our local Saturday game that would be scratch or better if they turned in their scores don't have a handicap. They just don't have any interest in doing anything other than playing local golf.

There's one guy that several local people offered to back if he wanted to turn pro and get in some events but he had no interest in it. One day after he had burned up the course we were sitting in the clubhouse and I looked at him and said "I'm damn glad I don't have your game".

He asked me why and I said "If I had your game I wouldn't be able to sleep at night from wondering how good I could be if I gave it a shot."

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

There's a few courses here with similar policies. I don't have a problem with it but I know it's not being enforced, though the lost ball thing is suspect. They didn't even suggest what tees to play from when I mentioned it was my first time there. Short of producing a USGA handicap card or verifying it on-line before tee times I can't see how to enforce it. A few places have simply removed markers from what should be the furthest tees, the tips are now one or two from the back.

It's a private club and they are mandating that we submit scores on the club system so our handicaps can be determined.  I already have one, but I guess others either don't or don't use the course system to manage theirs.  They will compare reserved tee times and scores submitted for handicap to ensure everyone is reporting as they should.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

It's a private club and they are mandating that we submit scores on the club system so our handicaps can be determined.  I already have one, but I guess others either don't or don't use the course system to manage theirs.  They will compare reserved tee times and scores submitted for handicap to ensure everyone is reporting as they should.

Kind of surprised a private club has a POP problem. But even more surprised the board voted it in. What are they going to do about guests? I play two private clubs somewhat regularly, couple times a month at each. Neither are what I consider slow.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Kind of surprised a private club has a POP problem. But even more surprised the board voted it in. What are they going to do about guests? I play two private clubs somewhat regularly, couple times a month at each. Neither are what I consider slow.

It's up to the members to ensure our guests maintain pace of play.  Last season wasn't a problem, average 18 hole round took about 4 hours, but we have a group of guys that like to play 2 ball and race around the course in less that 2 hours.  I'm guessing they were the squeaky wheel and the new management tried to appease them.  I don't see it lasting, there was a lot of push back at the meeting when these new rules were announced.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

My home course just brought in a new management team and the speed demons of the club must have gotten their ear because the new rules for the season came out today, mostly addressing pace of play.

Tee times will now be spaced at 9 minute intervals down from 12 minutes last season.

Only allowed 2 minutes to look for your ball, after that ball should be played as if woods are water hazard (no drop zone) with penalty if provisional wasn't hit.

Tee boxes are determined by handicap, only 0-10 handicaps can play from the tips.  If you're playing from the wrong tees and out of position the ranger will issue a warning.  Multiple warnings result in loss of course privileges for a week.

If age + handicap is > 100 must play from gold tees.

This should be an interesting season.

No way in Hell I'd play a course where I wasn't allowed to play by the rules, especially if was inspired by the sort of partisanship that you describe.

The tee thing wouldn't bother me.  I've never cared much for playing back tees anyway.  I doubt that I'll ever hit that age plus handicap requirement.  If I do, I'll just be glad that I can still play golf at that point in my life.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No way in Hell I'd play a course where I wasn't allowed to play by the rules, especially if was inspired by the sort of partisanship that you describe.

The tee thing wouldn't bother me.  I've never cared much for playing back tees anyway.  I doubt that I'll ever hit that age plus handicap requirement.  If I do, I'll just be glad that I can still play golf at that point in my life.

Yup.

And double yup......if I'm 75 and playing off of 25, I'll be pretty pleased to be playing at all, let alone concerned about the set of tees I'm "allowed" to play from.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

My home course just brought in a new management team and the speed demons of the club must have gotten their ear because the new rules for the season came out today, mostly addressing pace of play.

Tee times will now be spaced at 9 minute intervals down from 12 minutes last season.

Only allowed 2 minutes to look for your ball, after that ball should be played as if woods are water hazard (no drop zone) with penalty if provisional wasn't hit.

Tee boxes are determined by handicap, only 0-10 handicaps can play from the tips.  If you're playing from the wrong tees and out of position the ranger will issue a warning.  Multiple warnings result in loss of course privileges for a week.

If age + handicap is > 100 must play from gold tees.

This should be an interesting season.

The tee times are fine, I see that as a benefit and a plus to be honest.

The "2 minutes to look for your ball, after that the ball should be played as if the woods are water and we are making up our own rules and this is no longer golf" rule is completely moronic. No course, or club, is going to tell me how to play my round or override the USGA if I'm anticipating playing by the rules of golf on an actual golf course .

Tee boxes are touchy as well. I learned to play some of my best golf from the tips because it really opened my eyes to course management and making smart moves in terms of approaching the course's holes from different angles and areas to set up the next shot properly. Should my handicap happen to dip back over 10, or hit 11... I am still not going to be told to move up a box either. Would this be the case at a course that is <6000 yards? Say you have a 12 hc golfer that is really struggling with his putting/short game at the beginning of this season, yet the guy has a ridiculous swing speed and carries the ball 270-280. This club would have the audacity to try and tell him to move up, even though he's perfectly fine playing from the tips?

I definitely would have had a lot to say at that meeting!