Following the Rules= A Good Way to Piss People Off

[bluecollar01]

Maybe, it's just me but I think if the group / event / etc. you're playing with agrees that (and I'm just throwing these out there):

- OB is treated as a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance

- it's not necessary to pull the pin

- double par is the highest score you can record

- agree that a particular piece of the course should be marked as ground under repair

- etc.

then it should be okay to stray from the official rules.  It's not really that different from local course rules or rules of competition that are amended to specific golfing events.  In most cases, I think that it's done for pace of play rather than out of spite for the rules.

And, I know that many will say that's fine but that it's not golf.  And, they are entitled to that opinion.  Someone above said that people ignore the rules because they think that "they aren't playing TV golf".  When I read the statement I thought that they probably think you should realize that you also aren't "playing TV golf" :).

I have no skin in this argument but I think a little "common ground" would benefit everyone.  I see more slow play posts than just about anything on here and if "bending" the rules is the majority decision of the group and leads to faster play then what does it hurt.  It's not like the "game of golf" needs to be defended.  It's well documented as to it's rules and has governing bodies that will ensure that it remains true to itself.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The point Turtle is making is that if he has no intent to search, then there is no reason to call the second ball a provisional ball.  By doing so , he brings other possibilities into play, such as his opponent or fellow competitor finding his original ball before he plays another stroke at the provisional, which would require him to abandon the provisional ball and proceed under Rule 28 if the original is unplayable.  The original intention of Mvarley84 appears to be to speed up play, this would be counter to that intent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

I do not think I am splitting hairs at all.  Hitting a second tee shot after announcing provisional is a very different animal than just hitting a second tee shot with no such announcement.  If you do not announce provisional then even if your original ball is sitting in the middle of the fairway you have to play the second ball.  And if you announce provisional then if your original ball is found in the middle of a bush deep in the trees, where you are absolutely dead with no shot even with taking one or more unplayables, then you are still stuck with the original shot.  And your best option may be to go hit a THIRD tee shot, under a stroke and distance penalty.  You cannot use the provisional, in this case, because the moment your ball is found in bounds the provisional ball is abandoned.  You NEVER get a choice between 2 balls in (potential) play.

Sorry. I didn't know you could do that. What is the penalty when opting to do this? Are you hitting three from the tee? Is it the same result stroke-wise as taking a provisional?

I really need to get an easy to follow rules book.

You can play under penalty of stroke and distance any time you choose to.   What you are essentially doing is declaring your original ball unplayable (the rules don't allow you to declare it "lost"), and taking the maximum penalty under Rule 28.  As soon as you play that second ball from the tee, or as soon as you drop a ball if played from anywhere else through the green, the original ball is abandoned and the substituted ball becomes the ball in play.

[bplewis24]

I'll tell you a good way to piss people off: a course not staking off any of their hazards.

In the tournament I played this weekend, the course apparently removed all hazard stakes from the course over the past year.  On the card it stated "all lateral hazards are marked with red stakes."  So it made for a helluva time trying to determine what to do when a ball was lost in what appeared to be a hazard (because it played as hazard in the past) that wasn't staked off.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I'll tell you a good way to piss people off: a course not staking off any of their hazards.

In the tournament I played this weekend, the course apparently removed all hazard stakes from the course over the past year.  On the card it stated "all lateral hazards are marked with red stakes."  So it made for a helluva time trying to determine what to do when a ball was lost in what appeared to be a hazard (because it played as hazard in the past) that wasn't staked off.

That sucks, but when they aren't marked, the only way to play it is to go by the natural margin of the watercourse.

[carrx]

I'm a rules guy, at least as compared to my regular groups.  As far as I can see it, you were trying to legitimately post your best ever score, and you didn't want any taint on it by abusing the rules.  I respect that.  The fact that you made the decision to go back to the tee after whiffing your attempted escape shot is confusing, but there's some nobility to trying to stick to the rules of golf, as long as it doesn't greatly inconvenience your playing partners.

[Billmc]

Its golf not a car race you do what you feel is best!. I for one I am not a rule guy,way!!! from it LOL. I do not play for money(not even for a soda) i do not really play In tounerments and i don't play competive rounds with anyone so i will admit I Greatly fudge the rules, actually the rules for golf just will piss me off LOL.I belive you play the game the way you like it no matter what people say

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Billmc

Its golf not a car race you do what you feel is best!. I for one I am not a rule guy,way!!!

One would never want to confuse a game of golf with something as serious and sacred as a car race. No fudging the rules there. It just wouln't be right, would it? I mean - several hundred years of sporting history could never rise to the heights of car racing.

Geeeeeez.

Why have you posted a handicap here?

You admit to being a cheat.

Why do you do "what ypu feel is best"? To lower your scores.

That's what cheats usually do.

I don't give a XXXX if you want to hit a golf ball around the course and do what you like. But don't score and don't pretend to have a handicap.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Shorty

One would never want to confuse a game of golf with something as serious and sacred as a car race. No fudging the rules there. It just wouln't be right, would it? I mean - several hundred years of sporting history could never rise to the heights of car racing.

Geeeeeez.

Why have you posted a handicap here?

You admit to being a cheat.

Why do you do "what ypu feel is best"? To lower your scores.

That's what cheats usually do.

I don't give a XXXX if you want to hit a golf ball around the course and do what you like. But don't score and don't pretend to have a handicap.

Unless he's going to use that pretend handicap to play me in a real golf match, for money.  Then it's just fine!

[GoalsAndPar]

Find people that are as serious as you are to golf with. If you're just being paired up with some random people at the course, make sure they know that you follow ALL the rules so they know what to expect while playing with you.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by GoalsAndPar

Find people that are as serious as you are to golf with. If you're just being paired up with some random people at the course, make sure they know that you follow ALL the rules so they know what to expect while playing with you.

Today I got paired with a guy who hit a 2nd tee shot off every 3rd hole (or so) and gave himself preferred lies seemingly every opportunity.  I didn't really feel the need to explain anything to him, nor did I feel he needed to explain anything to me...other than the obligatory "I'm going to hit another one" so that I knew not to go sauntering off the tee box while he was swinging.  IMO, me playing by the rules and him not playing by the rules shouldn't impact each others' game.  When it does, something is wrong.

For example, if he was slowing down our pace too much while hitting those multiple tee shots, I would have a problem with it.  As it was, we were always waiting on the group of four in front of us, so I had no issues with it.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Today I got paired with a guy who hit a 2nd tee shot off every 3rd hole (or so) and gave himself preferred lies seemingly every opportunity.  I didn't really feel the need to explain anything to him, nor did I feel he needed to explain anything to me...other than the obligatory "I'm going to hit another one" so that I knew not to go sauntering off the tee box while he was swinging.  IMO, me playing by the rules and him not playing by the rules shouldn't impact each others' game.  When it does, something is wrong.

For example, if he was slowing down our pace too much while hitting those multiple tee shots, I would have a problem with it.  As it was, we were always waiting on the group of four in front of us, so I had no issues with it.

I agree, I think this is the only sensible and realistic way to go about it. You want to have a good time, not play a tension filled round because you've decided it's your duty to defend the integrity of the game by calling out strangers on their rules infractions.

Playing a casual round with someone (especially if it's a random pairing) and playing a competitive round against someone are two very different scenarios and shoud be treated as such IMHO.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoalsAndPar

Find people that are as serious as you are to golf with. If you're just being paired up with some random people at the course, make sure they know that you follow ALL the rules so they know what to expect while playing with you.

Today I got paired with a guy who hit a 2nd tee shot off every 3rd hole (or so) and gave himself preferred lies seemingly every opportunity.  I didn't really feel the need to explain anything to him, nor did I feel he needed to explain anything to me...other than the obligatory "I'm going to hit another one" so that I knew not to go sauntering off the tee box while he was swinging.  IMO, me playing by the rules and him not playing by the rules shouldn't impact each others' game.  When it does, something is wrong.

For example, if he was slowing down our pace too much while hitting those multiple tee shots, I would have a problem with it.  As it was, we were always waiting on the group of four in front of us, so I had no issues with it.

Yep.  The way you treated is is how any sensible person would do it.  While I always prefer to play strictly by the rules, it could be taken as being very unfriendly and unlikable when playing with people you don't know.   I want to have fun while playing, and that means making those I play with comfortable while still playing the game the way I prefer.  I never try to ram my philosophy down anyone's throat, and I don't go all ballistic when they unknowingly do something as innocent as knocking a "gimme" putt back to me.

I know that I often come across on the forum as a stiff-necked rules nazi, but I like to believe that I have at least a modicum of common sense, and can recognize when it's necessary to back off in the interest of having a pleasant time on the course.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

and I don't go all ballistic when they unknowingly do something as innocent as knocking a "gimme" putt back to me.

One thing I've noticed is that, at least for me, most strangers I get paired with will at least ask if I want that "gimme" before knocking it back to me for the first time.  I typically say no thanks, I'll tap it in (even if it isn't a tap-in).  It probably helps that I don't mark my 3-4 footers, which in turn encourages more people to want to "give" those to you in order to avoid the extra minute or two it will take for somebody marking it.

Anyhow, I think only one or two times has somebody just knocked back a 3 footer on the first hole before I let them know I'd prefer to putt out.  Thankfully most people realize that you shouldn't assume to know how somebody else plays the game.  On a tangent, I also think one of the reasons why I feel like I'm pretty good at the 3-6 foot putts, is because I putt all of them out AND I don't spend tons of time studying them.

[Billmc]

Originally Posted by Shorty

One would never want to confuse a game of golf with something as serious and sacred as a car race. No fudging the rules there. It just wouln't be right, would it? I mean - several hundred years of sporting history could never rise to the heights of car racing.

Geeeeeez.

Why have you posted a handicap here?

You admit to being a cheat.

Why do you do "what ypu feel is best"? To lower your scores.

That's what cheats usually do.

I don't give a XXXX if you want to hit a golf ball around the course and do what you like. But don't score and don't pretend to have a handicap.

Being a Cheat!, like cheating in what?. What have I claim to cheat? a handicap?, a handicap that's mine!, i bought the right to post anything i want. Now If i go and post a score In a tounerment,useing my handicap then yes then you would have a argument,wich in turn sounds like what you really want anyways!. You go play your XXXX game anyway you want and i will do the same. I will post any score i want, and If you don't like it,well then you will just have to live with it.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Billmc

Its golf not a car race you do what you feel is best!. I for one I am not a rule guy,way!!! from it LOL. I do not play for money(not even for a soda) i do not really play In tounerments and i don't play competive rounds with anyone so i will admit I Greatly fudge the rules, actually the rules for golf just will piss me off LOL.I belive you play the game the way you like it no matter what people say

Originally Posted by Billmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

One would never want to confuse a game of golf with something as serious and sacred as a car race. No fudging the rules there. It just wouln't be right, would it? I mean - several hundred years of sporting history could never rise to the heights of car racing.

Geeeeeez.

Why have you posted a handicap here?

You admit to being a cheat.

Why do you do "what ypu feel is best"? To lower your scores.

That's what cheats usually do.

I don't give a XXXX if you want to hit a golf ball around the course and do what you like. But don't score and don't pretend to have a handicap.

Being a Cheat!, like cheating in what?. What have I claim to cheat? a handicap?, a handicap that's mine!, i bought the right to post anything i want. Now If i go and post a score In a tounerment,useing my handicap then yes then you would have a argument,wich in turn sounds like what you really want anyways!. You go play your XXXX game anyway you want and i will do the same. I will post any score i want, and If you don't like it,well then you will just have to live with it.

I have just one question for you then... why are bothering to read and post in a RULES forum?????  Discussions here generally revolve around legitimate questions or clarifications of the actual rules.  Since you state that the rules "will just piss you off", then why not just leave before we piss you off any more.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Billmc

Being a Cheat!, like cheating in what?. What have I claim to cheat? a handicap?, a handicap that's mine!, i bought the right to post anything i want. Now If i go and post a score In a tounerment,useing my handicap then yes then you would have a argument,wich in turn sounds like what you really want anyways!. You go play your XXXX game anyway you want and i will do the same. I will post any score i want, and If you don't like it,well then you will just have to live with it.

You admit that you cheat.

You are dishonest and you don't respect the game of golf because you want others to think you are better than you are by making up scores.

You say that you are "not a rules guy".

You say you "do what feels best".

You say you will post "any score I want".

Therefore - you are a cheat and a liar because there would be times when you claim a score that you haven't had.

Hardly the type of player that other golfers respect.

But...in car racing it's different.  Unbelievable.

[jamo]

Being a Cheat!, like cheating in what?. What have I claim to cheat? a handicap?, a handicap that's mine!, i bought the right to post anything i want. Now If i go and post a score In a tounerment,useing my handicap then yes then you would have a argument,wich in turn sounds like what you really want anyways!. You go play your XXXX game anyway you want and i will do the same. I will post any score i want, and If you don't like it,well then you will just have to live with it.

Question: Well then why do you pay for the official handicap? If it's going to be inaccurate, and you're not going to play in tournaments, why not just use a spreadsheet and do the math yourself?

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Billmc

a handicap that's mine!, i bought the right to post anything i want.

Who did you buy that right from? The USGA?