Vanity Capping Is Worse Than Sandbagging

[billchao]

Originally Posted by trackster

If you don't like sandbaggers don't play handicap tournaments.  Play straight up.  What I'm saying is that a sandbagger still has to play good come tournament time.  A vanity cap never has to play well.  They can always say they just did this and that.

I voted sandbagging. A sandbagger can win tournaments. A vanity capper can't.

My MIL's ex bf is a sandbagger, albeit inadvertently. He didn't understand the concept of ESC. He is perfectly capable of shooting in the mid 70s, but almost always cards several quads and triples every round. Thus, he thinks he is a 17. He creams me in match play, but I occasionally get him on strokes.

If he vanity caps himself to a 5.... $$ baby!

But seriously, I'm just not bothered by other people's fish stories. Yea, ok you shot par on that really hard course the other day, how come you always shoot 98 when we play together? I guess I've been around enough exaggerators in my life that I just don't care what people claim they can do unless they back it up.

[Zachari208]

Vanity capping can be called V-Bags to go along with scumbaggers .

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by trackster

I could turn the same side and say that we have 25 vanity cappers in the thread right now.

If you don't like sandbaggers don't play handicap tournaments.  Play straight up.  What I'm saying is that a sandbagger still has to play good come tournament time.  A vanity cap never has to play well.  They can always say they just did this and that.

Right, because only vanity cappers hate sandbagging.  Whereas it is perfectly reasonable that only someone who is a sandbagger would hold to the preposterous notion that someone who cheats to inflate their own ego is worse than someone who cheats to win money and/or tournaments.

Why should you care if a vanity capper ever has to play well?  Even if they do play well they aren't going to unfairly win money or a tournament because they have torpedoed themselves.  Whereas the sandbagger doesn't even really have to play good, he only has to play better than the false picture he has dishonestly painted of his ability.  Saying that a sandbagger still has to play well to win is simply rationalization on his part.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by MS256

I would place sandbagging worse because of the potential to cheat someone else out of the chance to win (and their money) and a vanity capper is more likely to end up costing themselves money.

+ 1. MS says it all.

trackster , golf is a sport, not a religion. In a world where children are starving, vanity capping doesn't register on my radar.

[Lihu]

I could turn the same side and say that we have 25 vanity cappers in the thread right now.  If you don't like sandbaggers don't play handicap tournaments.  Play straight up.  What I'm saying is that a sandbagger still has to play good come tournament time.  A vanity cap never has to play well.  They can always say they just did this and that.

Ultimately, if your goal is to improve, is to report the score you actually got. If you played really well a few holes in a row and don't report your 8 on a par 3, what's the point of keeping score at all? What I am saying is that you hurt yourself as a vanity capper, but you hurt others when you sandbag. Therefore, I vote, already counted in the tally, that sandbagging is the worse offense.

[billatthebar]

golf is a sport based on honesty - some people are just cheats - cheats should not be playing our game - both sandbaggers and vanity cappers are cheating - shame on both , those attitudes have no place in our sport as it goes against everything it stands for...

[Lihu]

golf is a sport based on honesty - some people are just cheats - cheats should not be playing our game - both sandbaggers and vanity cappers are cheating - shame on both , those attitudes have no place in our sport as it goes against everything it stands for...

I agree with the vanity capper part if it means that they say they hit less than they actually did, or do anything against the rules on purpose. There are many rules to learn, so I would not say someone is cheating because neither they nor I really knew them well.

[tristanhilton85]

Sandbagging is far worse... and the poll seems to agree with that.

[trackster]

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

[Wansteadimp]

The Vanity Capper is a product of the US handicap system, sandbaggers exist wherever golf is played. In the UK all counting scores for handicap have to come from a comp. or a designated supplimentary round (declared before you go out) in either case the card needs to be signed off by the marker and the player. Pretty hard to record lower than you shot there without collusion. If it's in a comp you're flat out cheating, if its an additional card you need to get the marker to buy in to it. Sandbagging is still the same - miss the short putt on 18, dump the ball in the water on 17 etc etc. Sandbagging is much the bigger issue.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

The poll answered your question already.

One is lying to yourself.

The other is lying to others.

People always prefer that someone lies to themselves than to them.

[MacDutch]

No we are discussing the 'on purpose sandbaggers' not the guy who is in the lift to a lower handicap. The latter is not a sandbagger.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I'd rather be called a sandbagger.  The vanity guy just seems so douche.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

Being called a Sandbagger would be a compliment of sorts, sure.  However, if I was called a vanity capper I would laugh it off, whereas if I were called out as a sandbagger I would feel the need to be defensive and explanatory.  I'd rather not have to go through that.

That's not really the barometer you think it is, but still I'd probably prefer being accused of a Vanity Capper, because it's harmless.  And guess what?  If I'm not a vanity capper, that's the point where I take the guy's money.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

That might be a better question than the original one you posed and could provide different poll results.

The sandbaggers I knew in bowling seemed to have almost a sense of pride in being called out as sandbaggers.  Sandbagging means you're actually better than your average/handicap states and you're gaming the system.   Calling someone out as a vanity capper is basically saying you don't believe they are as good as their handicap which not only calls them a cheat but also a crappy golfer.

Male golfers would probably take offense at being accused of either one, but if they were being 100% honest I'd guess they would rather be a sandbagger than vanity capper.

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

Honestly, I would rather not be accused of anything.

However, in playful jest, I agree that being accused of being a sandbagger is more fun.

However, It is rare that someone would say something like "Man, you must be a vanity capper". For one, that is a sure way never to play with them again. Secondly, they could just be having a bad day.

Incidentally, I just looked at your original post. Your playing partner was more or less correct. 25 to 30 doesn't really make that much difference. Just like my "18" handicap. The purpose of my 18 is that when I do play under tournament conditions, that I am not given something like 2 strokes per hole. That would be unfair, since on any given day I could play much better than that.

For example, if you and I play against each other. You are a 15 HP, and I can play anything from 15 to 25 over on any given day. By your logic, I should take a 25 HP. So, I get 10 strokes more strokes more than you on the get go, rather than 3. Let's also say I am having a 15 over kind of day. By the end of the day I would have netted 10 strokes on you. Do you consider this fair?

In fact, the lower your handicap the more important it is to keep and report it accurately. You are in this category, because you need to par 2 to 3 holes per round. I can bogie all of them, and even double some of them depending upon the course.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by trackster

Would you rather be accused of being  a Vanity capper or a Sandbagger?  I personally would be more offended by being called a vanity capper.  By calling someone a vanity capper you are accusing them of not having the potential that they claim.  If you call someone a sandbagger, you are pretty much complementing them and telling them that they are better than they claim.  Seeing as I would bet most people would much rather be accused of sandbagging than vanity capping, it only seems right that vanity capping is worst.

That is a very weird set of values you have there.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by turtleback

That is a very weird set of values you have there.

Why? You would rather have someone say that you are worse than you are?