"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Man up and lay down the law.

Where did I hear that before?

Bastard...

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Yes, unfortunately, being married and getting stuck in a 4.5-5 hour round is no good. My wife knows I can usually play solo in 2.5 to 3 hours (average). So when I partner up, she knows it's going to be ~4 hours.

Do you know how frustrating it is to be stuck at a standstill, end up with a ~5 hour round AND end up in the doghouse/yelled at on the phone for messing up plans?!

Worst round ever on record... 6 hours and 20 some minutes for our foursome to play 18 with a 5 minute stop at the turn for a quick cooler refill (we weren't going to drink but the 3+ hour 9 hole pace forced us to fill up a 6-pack cooler each) and a dog.

I do the opposite, I set her expectations at 5-6 hour rounds and surprise her when I'm home early because I missed her so much.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I do the opposite, I set her expectations at 5-6 hour rounds and surprise her when I'm home early because I missed her so much.

I won't go off-topic, but she's italian ! There's no setting her expectations . She has her own expectations, realistic or not, and that's that! LOL

On a side note, if I were guaranteed a 4 hour round every time I went out from this point on, I would gladly take it. All Summer so far, I've been screwed and wound up with more rounds over 4 hours than under.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by iacas

As a point of reference, I played along with a kid I'm coaching today.

We got to the course at about 9:20. We putted for a little bit, then teed off. We let a single in a cart through on five. We hit a few extra shots (he did, I mean) here and there, and I didn't always putt out, but we also stood and talked start lines and strategy a few times too.

We got to the back nine where a ladies league was a few holes ahead, and several singles and doubles were backed up behind them. It was 88°.

We felt like the pace of play was g-l-a-c-i-a-l.

We got a gatorade on the way home, and I looked at the clock.

It said 1:29.

Moral of the story: four hours is NOT fast (but we'd be happy if that was the new average).

I showed up as a single one weekday a couple of years ago, and I had the choice of playing alone, which I hate, or joining a foursome of friends and coworkers from the course playing a money game (the course allows fivesomes on weekday if all players share 3 carts and they commit to keeping up with any traffic).  I joined the group, making it 5.  At that time there was nobody in sight in front of us and the tee sheet was open behind us.  On 13 we caught a threesome, who were following another threesome.  From then on in we waited on every shot for the last 5 holes, and still finished in 4 hours.

When 4 hours feels slow with a fivesome, you know that 4 hours should be a near death experience for 2 players.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Moral of the story: four hours is NOT fast (but we'd be happy if that was the new average).

Originally Posted by Fourputt

When 4 hours feels slow with a fivesome, you know that 4 hours should be a near death experience for 2 players.

I've only played 2 rounds recently as only a two-some.  Once with my wife last year (she's a beginner) where we never waited for anybody and, in fact, we didn't even see another person on the course until we got near the end and a couple of singles played through us on consecutive holes.  It didn't seem like we played fast or slow.  We just played and had fun, and when we were done, it had been pretty much exactly 4 hours.

And then last month when I played Old Works with my dad.  Again, almost nobody on the course, and other than maybe 3 holes, we never waited on anybody.  Finished, again, in almost exactly 4 hours.

The common denominator is vacation.  I'm thinking that played into it, because when I have other stuff I know I need to do afterwards, I'm more in a rush to get through it.

Last weekend, as a foursome, on another fairly quiet day with little to no waiting, we finished in under 3:30.

Go figure.

[Lash]

Interesting background on the line and a bit about Rodney Dangerfield.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/07/08/rodney-dangerfield-caddyshack-usga/2500667/?sf14782586=1

[Slice of Life]

That's a pretty good read.

[Brandaman]

The only way to pick up pace-of-play on a round of golf is to employ course marshals that maintain a strict time limit on each group that goes out...  PERIOD. They have to baby-sit that golf course like a teacher in a pre-school, and keep the "unruly" ones from log-jamming the whole thing.

There is no need to spend thousands of $$ on commercials to inform people that golf is being played too slow...  we already know that.  Watching Arnold Palmer & Carlie Rymer act out a ridiculous commercial isn't going to do a thing for addressing the problem.  And whats even more annoying is the fact that only golf nuts watch golf on TV anyway.  99% of the hackers that slow down pace-of-play couldn't care a bit less about watching golf on TV, and therefore are never gonna see the commercial...  not that the damn commercial is gonna open their eyes anyway!  To truly fix the problem will require $$ spent by each individual course to maintain their own set of standards for pace-of-play. Outside of that, it's just an awareness campaign that will never do a thing to improve the problem.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Brandaman

The only way to pick up pace-of-play on a round of golf is to employ course marshals that maintain a strict time limit on each group that goes out...  PERIOD. They have to baby-sit that golf course like a teacher in a pre-school, and keep the "unruly" ones from log-jamming the whole thing.

There is no need to spend thousands of $$ on commercials to inform people that golf is being played too slow...  we already know that.  Watching Arnold Palmer & Carlie Rymer act out a ridiculous commercial isn't going to do a thing for addressing the problem.  And whats even more annoying is the fact that only golf nuts watch golf on TV anyway.  99% of the hackers that slow down pace-of-play couldn't care a bit less about watching golf on TV, and therefore are never gonna see the commercial...  not that the damn commercial is gonna open their eyes anyway!  To truly fix the problem will require $$ spent by each individual course to maintain their own set of standards for pace-of-play. Outside of that, it's just an awareness campaign that will never do a thing to improve the problem.

Unfortunately, I believe you are right on. Funny marketing campaigns aren't going to do a damn thing but entertain those of us who suffer from people who just do not care, or are oblivious to pace of play.

I tried to play last Saturday morning and finished in 5 hours as a single. I booked a 6:57 tee time and ended up being behind 4 foursomes, all of which were sandwiched together like sardines. The twosome behind me always stayed back away from me as well and looked like they were ball hawking in the downtime, so I was stuck in the middle of molasses. It sucked pretty bad...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Brandaman

The only way to pick up pace-of-play on a round of golf is to employ course marshals that maintain a strict time limit on each group that goes out...  PERIOD. They have to baby-sit that golf course like a teacher in a pre-school, and keep the "unruly" ones from log-jamming the whole thing.

There is no need to spend thousands of $$ on commercials to inform people that golf is being played too slow...  we already know that.  Watching Arnold Palmer & Carlie Rymer act out a ridiculous commercial isn't going to do a thing for addressing the problem.  And whats even more annoying is the fact that only golf nuts watch golf on TV anyway.  99% of the hackers that slow down pace-of-play couldn't care a bit less about watching golf on TV, and therefore are never gonna see the commercial...  not that the damn commercial is gonna open their eyes anyway!  To truly fix the problem will require $$ spent by each individual course to maintain their own set of standards for pace-of-play. Outside of that, it's just an awareness campaign that will never do a thing to improve the problem.

It's pretty much only golf nuts who are capable of recognizing slow play, and many of them don't know they are slow.  That being the case, I'll have to disagree with your  apparent premise that doing nothing is better than doing something.  If you had read the entire thread, the consensus is that you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually at the beginning.  The beginning in this is spreading awareness.  Of course that won't end the problem, but you never find the solution if you don't at least start a few people thinking about it.

Awareness, education, enforcement.  Enforcement can't be successful until players know what you are talking about and how to implement it.

[David in FL]

The first out 4-somes that take 5 hours to get around on Saturday morning should be beaten with a rusty 2-iron, have their testicles removed, and be banned from golf! Not necessarily in that order......

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by David in FL

The first out 4-somes that take 5 hours to get around on Saturday morning should be beaten with a rusty 2-iron, have their testicles removed, and be banned from golf!

Not necessarily in that order......

Not to mention, force-fed every Top Flite that they dig out of hazards and forced to sit at the turn... spread eagle and allow everyone inconvenienced by their idiocy to kick them square in the gooch.

[Dave2512]

I'm glad I've made the decision to primarily play courses that require golfers to ride. The GPS carts at those two courses have replaced the rangers. There's two sets of starters at one course, the first simply a station to assign you a cart. They have a laptop on the tarmac to sync your cart number with your tee time. Get out of position and the cart lets you know it. Get off the path on a path only hole and the cart lets you know it. The carts remind golfers to repair divots and ball marks. Carts can be used to order food before getting to the turn and summon the beverage carts, GPS can be used to report problems with the cart. Both play fast unless it's unusually busy. Jerk around and the pro shop can shut down the cart between holes. We use GPS in our company vehicles. Amazing how much can be done with them now and how affordable the technology is. The majority of the cost is in the display, which isn't more than an average e-reader. The product we use is a flat fee for airtime included in the cost of the unit with a three year renewable subscription. I'm surprised more courses haven't gone in that direction.

[Brandaman]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

It's pretty much only golf nuts who are capable of recognizing slow play, and many of them don't know they are slow.  That being the case, I'll have to disagree with your  apparent premise that doing nothing is better than doing something.  If you had read the entire thread, the consensus is that you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually at the beginning.  The beginning in this is spreading awareness.  Of course that won't end the problem, but you never find the solution if you don't at least start a few people thinking about it.

Awareness, education, enforcement.  Enforcement can't be successful until players know what you are talking about and how to implement it.

Your's is obviously a politically correct stance to take...  and one that has much support because it lets the people who don't "sit on their hands" in life feel good about doing something instead of nothing .  But, the truth still remains that unless you can monitor these idiots, you'll never speed them up.

[newtogolf]

While many people complain about pace of play one might conclude that we are vocal minority given most people on courses we play seem content to play a round in five hours or are at least oblivious to the fact that it's taking that long.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

While many people complain about pace of play one might conclude that we are vocal minority given most people on courses we play seem content to play a round in five hours or are at least oblivious to the fact that it's taking that long.

While I definitely think there is something to be said for the consensus of this forum being a vocal minority, I don't know that "content" is the right word.  Probably something more like "resigned to the fact that it's probably going to take xxx hours, but love playing the game too much to give it up based solely on time."

And I also think this forum is a mirror of the country's political culture.  In politics, we spend way too much time hearing from the right wing nut jobs and the left wing crazies, when, in reality, most of us are waaaay closer to the middle.

Here, it seems like the most vocal are the ones saying an 18 hole round should take 3 hours or less, and on the other end of the spectrum, they're complaining about 7 hour rounds.

Since I sort of re-picked up the game a little under 2 years ago, I'd say that the fastest 18 hole round I've played with a foursome was 3:30 (a couple of weeks ago) and the slowest on the busiest course, was about 5:15.  If I had to take a wild guess, I'd bet they average out to around 4:20.

Lastly, I can't remember the last time that a slow round was caused by anybody I could see (meaning there were no groups immediately in front of me with big gaps in front of them) so I'm still wondering if we underestimate the role that tee time spacing plays in this.  Meaning, is it really caused by all of the little things that the TGC commercials are trying to fix, or are there just too many golfers crammed onto the course?

I've made this comparison before, but I think it's like traffic.  Here is Socal, the freeways are frequently a mess, and while I'm sure we'd all like to believe it's caused by some old lady going 40 in the fast lane 4 hours ago, in reality, there are just too many cars on the road and the freeway can't handle it.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

While many people complain about pace of play one might conclude that we are vocal minority given most people on courses we play seem content to play a round in five hours or are at least oblivious to the fact that it's taking that long.

I think the threshold separating vocal minority and casual golfer is lower than 5 hours.  I was chatting with a couple buddies this weekend that I go to South Carolina with once a year.  They typically play golf a couple times a year: during the South Carolina trip and maybe 1-2 times the rest of the year.  One of them happened to play this weekend for an employee sponsored scramble event, and it was 5.5 hours.  The other said he recently had a similar outing, but during a casual round with friends.  They both complained about how long it took.

My guess is that 5 hours is still too long for the casual golfer, but they would be happy with 4.5.  I, on the other hand, played a 4 hour round (maybe a bit less) this weekend, where I waited for 1-2 minutes on each tee box for the foursome ahead of me on roughly 7-9 holes.  By no means was I frustrated, but it just illustrates that 4.5 hours (and perhaps 4.25 hours) is not a fast round.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Brandaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

It's pretty much only golf nuts who are capable of recognizing slow play, and many of them don't know they are slow.  That being the case, I'll have to disagree with your  apparent premise that doing nothing is better than doing something.  If you had read the entire thread, the consensus is that you have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is usually at the beginning.  The beginning in this is spreading awareness.  Of course that won't end the problem, but you never find the solution if you don't at least start a few people thinking about it.

Awareness, education, enforcement.  Enforcement can't be successful until players know what you are talking about and how to implement it.

Your's is obviously a politically correct stance to take...  and one that has much support because it lets the people who don't "sit on their hands" in life feel good about doing something instead of nothing.  But, the truth still remains that unless you can monitor these idiots, you'll never speed them up.

Not much of the milk of human kindness in you, is there?  I can just about guarantee that this is the first time anyone has ever called me "politically correct".

While I may agree that there are indeed a few idiots on many golf courses, just having difficulty keeping pace doesn't make a player so.  He is more likely ignorant of the actions which are necessary for maintaining a good pace, but that alone doesn't qualify him for your appellation of mental deficiency.  Only if he is apprised of the problem and taught the solution and still has an issue with slow play can I include him him your sub-set of slow players.  Most simply don't know any better, and it's ostriches like you with their heads in the sand who help to perpetuate the problem with your constant harping about enforcement.  My feeling is that it's idiocy to think that you can find logic in punishing first and training second.

All your kind of enforcement accomplishes is to alienate players and make them dislike the rangers even further, and gives them a tendency to resist any ensuing attempts at education.  If you first make sure that the course policy is well publicized, explain what is expected and how to attain compliance with those expectations, then when the ranger enforces the policy a slow group can have no defense against whatever judgement is passed.