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Elmer

How to handle a cheater????

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So couple weeks ago I was playing in the my golf league's mid season tournament. We played a local Muni par 71, great challenging course. I was riding in a cart with a guy who is an A flighter which is a 5 handicap for 9 holes. I carry a 9 per 9.

Now during league play I dont have to play him at all since we are in different flights. Anyway we both bogie the 1st hole, par 5 We both bogied the 4th a par 3 The 7th a par 3, he hit his ball OB, duffed a chip, chipped short and 2 putted and carded a 6. Now the person had 1 birdie, a few pars and and bogies. I know he was atleast 6 over after the 1st 9. During the dinner and awards portion of the night, he wins the 2nd low gross score with a 77 and pockets a prize.

Later on someone remarked about him parring the 1st hole, which I know we both boggied. So I am assuming he changed his card (he was the scorer for out 4 some) Like I said I had him atleast 6 over for the front nine, and even with a birdie on the back he by no means shot par. Do you call this indivual out now that it is a few weeks after the fact.

Do you report him to the league?

Do you confront him quietly one on one?

Now once you answer that, what do you do if it is my father? So there is the kicker. My father who is 65 and plays atleast 4 times a week. He can hit the ball well, but he can not recover from bad golf. He began playing in retirement and learned to play alone when he worked on a golf course. He keeps a ball in his pocket and always gets a magic kick out of the woods.

He always speaks in "should have". That should have been a par. Should have been a birdie...... If he misses a 5 foot for par he puts down a par. his ego will not allow him to be human and mortal like the rest of us. He never shoots above an 83. He always has a second ball in his pocket, because he plays with a top flight off the tee, but puts with a pro v 1. He never marks his ball, so there is no identifying which his ball is.

Now we we are just playing 18 during the week in NON league play. I dont care what he does. I usually keep my own score card, so put down what ever you want. This is one of the reasons I wont bet on the course with him. If he cheats in league play, it is up to him opponent to catch him. But in a league tournament, where we are all competing against each other, it is different. What I find worse is that I am in the cart with him and if people know he cheats that is a reflection upon me.

It took me 30 years to establish a realationship with this man and it is largely on a golf course and in the bar afterwords. At 65 I know he does not have that many more years left especially playing at a 10 handicap. I have a feeling when his swing starts to go he will quit because he will refuse to play from the senior tees and will not tolerate playing bogie ball at best. So do I find another 4 some for league tournament? Do I tell him why I dont ride with him? Do I keep score from now on and call him out on the course (his golf buddies who are in the league know he does this, but never say anything. they silently condone it). Do I say nothing and enjoy what time I have?

In closing I will say it makes it real tough when he busts my chops for my lack of golf skills. I may not be very good, but I play the ball as It is and I know how to count!

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Below is the OP broken into paragraphs:

So couple weeks ago I was playing in the my golf league's mid season tournament. We played a local Muni par 71, great challenging course. I was riding in a cart with a guy who is an A flighter which is a 5 handicap for 9 holes. I carry a 9 per 9.

Now during league play I dont have to play him at all since we are in different flights. Anyway we both bogie the 1st hole, par 5 We both bogied the 4th a par 3 The 7th a par 3, he hit his ball OB, duffed a chip, chipped short and 2 putted and carded a 6. Now the person had 1 birdie, a few pars and and bogies. I know he was atleast 6 over after the 1st 9. During the dinner and awards portion of the night, he wins the 2nd low gross score with a 77 and pockets a prize.

Later on someone remarked about him parring the 1st hole, which I know we both boggied. So I am assuming he changed his card (he was the scorer for out 4 some) Like I said I had him atleast 6 over for the front nine, and even with a birdie on the back he by no means shot par. Do you call this indivual out now that it is a few weeks after the fact.

Do you report him to the league?

Do you confront him quietly one on one?

Now once you answer that, what do you do if it is my father? So there is the kicker. My father who is 65 and plays atleast 4 times a week. He can hit the ball well, but he can not recover from bad golf. He began playing in retirement and learned to play alone when he worked on a golf course. He keeps a ball in his pocket and always gets a magic kick out of the woods.

He always speaks in "should have". That should have been a par. Should have been a birdie...... If he misses a 5 foot for par he puts down a par. his ego will not allow him to be human and mortal like the rest of us. He never shoots above an 83. He always has a second ball in his pocket, because he plays with a top flight off the tee, but puts with a pro v 1. He never marks his ball, so there is no identifying which his ball is.

Now we we are just playing 18 during the week in NON league play. I dont care what he does. I usually keep my own score card, so put down what ever you want. This is one of the reasons I wont bet on the course with him. If he cheats in league play, it is up to him opponent to catch him. But in a league tournament, where we are all competing against each other, it is different. What I find worse is that I am in the cart with him and if people know he cheats that is a reflection upon me.

It took me 30 years to establish a realationship with this man and it is largely on a golf course and in the bar afterwords. At 65 I know he does not have that many more years left especially playing at a 10 handicap. I have a feeling when his swing starts to go he will quit because he will refuse to play from the senior tees and will not tolerate playing bogie ball at best. So do I find another 4 some for league tournament? Do I tell him why I dont ride with him? Do I keep score from now on and call him out on the course (his golf buddies who are in the league know he does this, but never say anything. they silently condone it). Do I say nothing and enjoy what time I have?

In closing I will say it makes it real tough when he busts my chops for my lack of golf skills. I may not be very good, but I play the ball as It is and I know how to count!

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I read it just fine. Tough one but I think a private conversation away from the course should be had. No need to call him out and if his friends quiet condone it, well shame on them. I wouldn't let it destroy what you have built but he should respect your feelings in the subject. (New paragraph) Good luck in whatever you choose. Just hold onto what you have built.
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Looks like you have the choice between two of my favorite American idioms:

"Let sleeping dogs lie."

or

"Call him out."

The type of relationship between you two is the major factor in which you decide.  Being that none of us know you or your father it would be hard to give good advice.  But I would say the closer I am to him, the more likely I am to call him out (privately) on his poor integrity.

If my dad did that, I'd have nipped it in the bud the first time he "found" his ball or took a "gimme" on a putt (especially a 5 footer LOL).  Be assertive and be certain to illustrate exactly what he did wrong.  I.e. give him a playback of the hole counting his strokes on your fingers.

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Not sure what an extra space does to help a person understand the words better, but whatever...

If I were in your shoes I think I would choose to speak to him privately, one on one, rather than call him out in front of his buddies.  If he doesn't like what you have to say and his other playing partners don't see a problem with his actions then you're going to either have to accept it or find another group to play with.  I don't envy you though either way... Good Luck!

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Thanks for the paragraphs.

I think you gotta call him out.  Maybe make in a joking way at first or like he made a mistake.  But the sooner the better.  The longer it goes on the tougher it will be.  Also, I don't think you can play one ball and putt another anyway.  But if he misses a 5 footer, he has to count that stroke.  Explain to him that everyone else is counting it - so he's gotta count it.  If he starts making them, then he can score it that way.

I've got a buddy that cheats and I call him out every time.  Endless arguments.  He never concedes, just puts what he's gonna put.  I only pay so much attention to his game, but when I notice it, I always call it out.  It is ridiculous for grown people to act that way.

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If it was my dad I was say something to him personally, if it was someone I didn't know well I'd tell whoever is in charge.  Trimming a few strokes off here and there wouldn't be worth an argument if it was just another round, but if you're unfairly pocketing cash that's a whole different ball game.

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I'd simply call him out and 'rib' him.  But it doesn't sound like you have the same relationship with your Father?  So maybe address the subject a little different?  I'd definitely broach the subject of cheating...

One other thing you could try, which I was taught by my golf coach... Is to simply ask every one in the foursome/threesome/twosome what their scores were after every hole... Which makes them verbally confirm their score.  Then record the scores on your own card...

The verbal confirmation piece is the key... If a person says a score different than you counted, then call them out on it at that moment, instead at the end of the round.  This usually clears the air and lets the 'cheaters' know you're counting their strokes and will not tolerate it.  Also I think there are some folks who think they can take par - when they really scored a bogey and it's not a big deal.  But there is something about actually having to say your score aloud, such that everyone can hear it in the group... It makes it harder for that cheater to say 'Par' when he knows he really got a Bogey.

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It's competition, so he definitely needs called out. The field has to be protected.

The rub, as you pointed out, is that he's your father.

So how about this - obviously you're not the only one who has noticed his transgressions. Talk to someone else, another competitor, and let them do the dirty work by calling him on it.

Cuz here's the thing. While cheating in golf is bad, it would be a real shame if you calling him out on it would make your relationship with him suffer. It's not that important.

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"Sorry Dad, but that's the last time I'm going to sit there and be embarrassed by you at a presentation. You've basically just stolen something.

Everyone there knows you cheat, they're just too polite to say anything.

It's making me look bad too, so if you can't play by the rules, maybe you're better off not playing at all."

I'm going to ask your opponents to keep track of your scores very carefully, so consider yourself oficially warned.  OK?" -- followed by knowing, friendly smile.

Oh, and he needs to know that he is clearly more than double a 10 handicap. This is vanity "handicapping" at its worst.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

"Sorry Dad, but that's the last time I'm going to sit there and be embarrassed by you at a presentation. You've basically just stolen something.

Everyone there knows you cheat, they're just too polite to say anything.

It's making me look bad too, so if you can't play by the rules, maybe you're better off not playing at all."

I'm going to ask your opponents to keep track of your scores very carefully, so consider yourself oficially warned.  OK?" -- followed by knowing, friendly smile.

Oh, and he needs to know that he is clearly more than double a 10 handicap. This is vanity "handicapping" at its worst.

Haha, this exactly.  Or tell him that you won't play with him anymore in tournaments because you'd rather not know if he's cheating, then you don't have to feel guilty too.  But yea, sitting through that presentation watching your dad enjoy his "victory", talk about uncomfortable.

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Maybe you can buy him a gag gift for his birthday, or for Father's Day.  Like a calculator, so you can be sure he knows how to add.  Also, I'm a big fan of the informal ribbing during a round.  Playing strictly by the rules isn't for everybody - certainly some folks just can't enjoy the game if they aren't as good as they'd like to be...but cheating in a tournament shows a lack of honor, which is an unpardonable sin.

With so many cliches out there about the parallel between golf and life, it's a tough pill to swallow to think that your own dad may be a cheating dirtbag.  :)

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Maybe try one of those stroke counter doodads. And make him use it.
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Originally Posted by TJBam

Maybe try one of those stroke counter doodads. And make him use it.

He'd find his faulty,if you know what I mean.

Problem is also that these types are generally dishonest in many other aspects in life.

The way a person plays golf tells you everything you need toknow about him, unfortunately - or fortunately.

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During one of your casual rounds with him, have him write your scores too and start fudging your numbers, once he calls you on it it's open for discussion.

By the way... 65 is not old!

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During one of your casual rounds with him, have him write your scores too and start fudging your numbers, once he calls you on it it's open for discussion.

This, is a pretty good idea. A casual unofficial way to bring it up.

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