Etiquette: Having lunch after 9

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I play twice a weekend morning rounds with a foursome and we almost always stop to get hot dogs and drinks. Sure, sometimes someone wants a breakfast sandwich or something and it takes a little longer but still we never had an issue. Sit down lunch is a little much to expect though. If it takes us 5 to 7 minutes at the turn and we can't get back in our spot then maybe the course shouldn't pack them in so tight and I am sure at that point pace has already been a problem. And I chuckled at the thought of a starter keeping me from making the turn. How are you going to stop me, stand in front of me while I tee off?

[quote name="Dave2512" url="/t/68533/etiquette-having-lunch-after-9/72#post_1004674"]He is making it up .Seriously this isn't even an issue. You pull out your phone place an order and pick it up.[/quote] This was my original post on this thread and then it went into hypothetical of being pushed around by the course. And I will extend my original post to 10 or 15 minutes. Not like I control the pace of the snack bar. Not sure what I made up.

[jetsknicks1]

As I said, I simply did my job as I was trained and instructed to do.  Players were allowed 5 minutes at the turn to hit the rest room, grab a dog and be on the 10th tee.  That was over and above the time between the groups on the course, which was typically 9 minutes.  The 8th and 9th holes usually played fairly fast, so groups would usually be well spaced at the turn.  A group which took no more than 5 minutes would at least be on the 10th tee before the next group got there.  A group that took 10 minutes or more would find the next group already hitting on 10, and they would find very few gaps on a typical day from 8 AM until well after noon, even on a weekday.   It was part of my job as starter to keep that flow moving.  I recorded the turn times for every group as they came off the 9th green.  If they were behind the pace, I was required to tell them to speed up and get back in position.  If it was their fault that they were already behind pace, they sometimes even lost the opportunity to hit the snack bar.   The course makes it's money on golf, not on food.  They are not in the restaurant business, and they don't try to be.  The food service is contracted out and the course only makes whatever the contract is for, not a per hot dog profit.  It's to the benefit of the food service provider to make sure that their service meets the needs of the course, or they won't get renewed when their contract comes up.

There's a good point in this post. How many threads do we have here about slow play, about a thousand? Keeping things flowing at the turn is essential to keeping a reasonable pace of play.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo

I am not talking about sitting down and eating. I've never done that. I do exactly what you said here. But it can take 15 minutes to just get food at some courses especially if someone just teeing off is getting stuff in front of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave2512

He is making it up .Seriously this isn't even an issue. You pull out your phone place an order and pick it up.

Exactly, five minutes is max time we spend and that includes a bathroom break for some of us.  I'm guessing @whatwoodtigerdo doesn't call in his order, so depending on the course they may cook to order.

Which is a terrible policy when you are catering to golfers in mid round.  We didn't do call ahead, but our snack bar had hot dogs on the dog heater, and other cold sandwiches pre-made and ready to grab and go.   It typically took me about 3 minutes to get my hot dog, pay for dog and drink, dress the dog as I liked, and be headed for the tee.  When I played an early round, I didn't eat until after I finished, whether at the course, at another restaurant, or at home.

[Dave2512]

Most of the food at the courses I play is prepared, dogs spinning around, wrapped burritos, pizza in a warmer and sandwiches. If you want a burger and fries you call. I don't understand his objections. He's making his turn harder than it needs to be. Actually he's creating an argument to support his imaginary cause.

[flopster]

Yeah why would I let a golf course employee push me around. Contrary to what some starters may think I am a paying customer and if you don't want me at your course then you can give me a full refund and the course can lose more revenue. If you fight me on that I will leave and have my bank reverse the charges so fast it will make your head spin. Another course will get my money. A lot of starters I have interacted with seem to be power hungry for stupid little things because they think they can. For instance a couple of weeks ago I was at a course I play all the time and the starter was the slowest human being I have ever seen. He was taking tickets and writing down carts numbers like it was the first time he had ever read and wrote and I loaded my cart and he told me to take a different cart. I told him my cart was loaded already and he said he should make me switch. I simply explained I doubt that's a conversation he wants to go have with the course manager so I would suggest he change the cart number on his sheet and we move along. He decided to go with my idea.

As far your statement you sound like the aggressive one. If I took 10 or 15 minutes, especially because of slow service at the turn, I would not need any threats. I would simply go tee off 10 and laugh at you getting angry and drive off. The ball would be in your court. You can decide to let it go or get aggressive. If you choose the former we go along with our day and maybe you are pissed off for a little while. If you choose the latter and come at me then I have every right to defend myself and you can call the sheriff anytime you want. I am a grownup paying $50 to $60 to hit a ball off of your grass. I am not a child in school.

Does everyone see the pattern here? Your words @whatwoodtigerdo

Originally Posted by flopster

This really strikes a nerve because a lot of these people are usually retirees who sometimes volunteer so they can play golf for free since in some cases they are on a fixed income, he went along with you because you were acting up about only having to move into another cart and also he may have been new and was nervous and thought he could lose his spot if something reaches the manager and he loses his playing priviliges from something he probably loves to do.congratulations on acting like a complete horses ass.

[/

Yep he was older. But I unloaded into the cart which means my bag was loaded, drinks, keys, wallet, balls and tees I bought there and range balls all in the cart. Let's see I can move all this or you can change a cart number on a piece of paper. But right I am the ass buddy. Seriously Ioaded after standing there 10 minutes with me and 2 other people there. To check a ticket and write a cart number down. Like I said above I don't complain at places which is why I don't say anything but I show up to my tee time 40 minutes early to practice and be at the box at least 5 minutes early. Not stand there a quarter of my practice time watching someone go as slow as humanly possible to do a simple job.

Oh okay I see, so if you do something that causes people to wait or any other inconvenience that's okay because you paid but if somebody is only trying to do their job and you think they are holding you up they need to just stop it and let you be on your way or else you will complain to the manager, for some reason you have a very skewed attitude of entitlement just because you paid some money, I'm not saying customers don't deserve service at a facility but there are also rules and conduct that should be abided to also. I volunteer at a course and your name would probably wind up on the "banned" list if you acted out like you say you would by taking too long at the turn and ignoring the starter and being confrontational, that would be it.

[Elvisliveson]

Yes. And also, he seems to be intimating that his entire foursome is at the snack shack waiting 15 minutes for their food.  One would think it prudent to send the rest of your group on ahead to tee off while one or two grab the food. This way, at least half the group has already teed off by the time the lunch grabbers make their way to the tee.

[Dave2512]

I wouldn't play a course that was so inefficient. My experience is if one thing is poorly managed so is everything else. Still I never see the long wait scenarios being tossed around here. When I play later I'll snap some pics of the GPS alert to call ahead and the call box on the 8th tee at my home course. You can order anything on the restaurant menu and have it waiting for you by the time you spend 20-25 minutes finishing 8 and 9. If you want to fuss with eating a steak you can get it.

[ay33660]

I wouldn't play a course that was so inefficient. My experience is if one thing is poorly managed so is everything else. Still I never see the long wait scenarios being tossed around here. When I play later I'll snap some pics of the GPS alert to call ahead and the call box on the 8th tee at my home course. You can order anything on the restaurant menu and have it waiting for you by the time you spend 20-25 minutes finishing 8 and 9. If you want to fuss with eating a steak you can get it.

You obviously play at a much higher class of courses then I have access to.

I am in Vancouver BC and out of 40 or so courses in the area I can only say maybe two or three (Shuksan Golf Course in Washington and Big Sky Golf Course in Pemberton) have access to such a service in their carts. I'm sure there are more but I think they are still in the minority.

Even the private club that I belong to doesn't have GPS on their carts let alone a call in service.

I can also tell you the name of the course whereby the turn at nine is always plugged up on the weekend.

Both the Ridge and Canal courses at Northview Golf course in Surrey BC do not route back to the main club house at the turn. Instead there are small snack shacks where one can buy some food and drinks and visit the washroom.

On the weekends there is always a delay there and often there is two or three groups bunched up.

Generally it is not because of the food but rather access to the washrooms.

There is a golf course in Phoenix (Trilogy Golf Club at Vistancia) that used to have a great outdoor snack bar (with bbq) right next to the 9th green. Smell of grilled onions as I head up the par 5 9th mmmmmmmmmmm. Now they have closed it and if you want some food at the 9 your need to drive quite a distance back to the club house.

Both are examples whereby the turn at the nine can exceed the 8 to 10 min interval and are issues caused by course design and not caused by the players.

The vast majority of the time if every group goes in for food or use the washrooms then there is no issues as they just line up behind the group ahead and there is no need for some to jump back into place. The issues arise if one of the group don't go for food or use the washrooms and they want to jump ahead.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Does everyone see the pattern here? Your words @whatwoodtigerdo Oh okay I see, so if you do something that causes people to wait or any other inconvenience that's okay because you paid but if somebody is only trying to do their job and you think they are holding you up they need to just stop it and let you be on your way or else you will complain to the manager, for some reason you have a very skewed attitude of entitlement just because you paid some money, I'm not saying customers don't deserve service at a facility but there are also rules and conduct that should be abided to also. I volunteer at a course and your name would probably wind up on the "banned" list if you acted out like you say you would by taking too long at the turn and ignoring the starter and being confrontational, that would be it.

Is this question serious? Did you just ask me if it's different if a paying customer is holding up a line for other customers versus an employee doing it. Just because you are a starter somewhere doesn't skew an argument towards your side. Especially with the fact In this scenario I loaded my cart to speed things up and didn't even say anything to the slow guy until he decided to try a power trip on something that meant absolutely nothing to him. [quote name="Dave2512" url="/t/68533/etiquette-having-lunch-after-9/90#post_1004717"]I wouldn't play a course that was so inefficient. My experience is if one thing is poorly managed so is everything else. Still I never see the long wait scenarios being tossed around here. When I play later I'll snap some pics of the GPS alert to call ahead and the call box on the 8th tee at my home course. You can order anything on the restaurant menu and have it waiting for you by the time you spend 20-25 minutes finishing 8 and 9. If you want to fuss with eating a steak you can get it.[/quote] Only courses here that had gps at all and they allowed you to order through them were a group of 6 which first got rid of the gps then went bankrupt. I am getting a sneaky suspicion that I have riled up all the power hungry starters in this thread.

[ay33660]

The course makes it's money on golf, not on food.  They are not in the restaurant business, and they don't try to be.  The food service is contracted out and the course only makes whatever the contract is for, not a per hot dog profit.  It's to the benefit of the food service provider to make sure that their service meets the needs of the course, or they won't get renewed when their contract comes up.

I find this to be contrary to my understanding of golf club operations.

The vast majority of the courses I play at encourage the players to spend time and money in their restaurants.

I am not in the golf business so I will defer to those that are in the business.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I find this to be contrary to my understanding of golf club operations. The vast majority of the courses I play at encourage the players to spend time and money in their restaurants. I am not in the golf business so I will defer to those that are in the business.

It sure wouldn't make sense why private courses would have food minimums. Maybe it's a different thing on public courses though. I have to think they are making something off the 150%+ charge up on beer or it's a horrible business design.

[Dave2512]

Only courses here that had gps at all and they allowed you to order through them were a group of 6 which first got rid of the gps then went bankrupt.

We don't use the GPS to order food it simply displays a message, basically it's encouraging golfers to spend money and reminding that you can call in an order. As soon as the cart moves away from the 8th tee it resumes regular GPS functions. Courses without GPS always have a sign with the grill phone number in the area of the holes 8 and 9.

I find this to be contrary to my understanding of golf club operations.

The vast majority of the courses I play at encourage the players to spend time and money in their restaurants.

I am not in the golf business so I will defer to those that are in the business.

Depends on the course. Some own the restaurant and grill and others don't. My home course was once private so everything is owned by the course. At my former home course the food and bev is owned by a local tavern group. Another course I frequent has a privately restaurant with it's own licenses, can't take food, beer or anything from the restaurant on to the course.

[flopster]

Is this question serious? Did you just ask me if it's different if a paying customer is holding up a line for other customers versus an employee doing it. Just because you are a starter somewhere doesn't skew an argument towards your side. Especially with the fact In this scenario I loaded my cart to speed things up and didn't even say anything to the slow guy until he decided to try a power trip on something that meant absolutely nothing to him.

Only courses here that had gps at all and they allowed you to order through them were a group of 6 which first got rid of the gps then went bankrupt.

I am getting a sneaky suspicion that I have riled up all the power hungry starters in this thread.

How do you know for a fact your actions were speeding things up? You may have grabbed a cart that was meant for someone else already or some other event, carts have hour meters on them and courses have to keep track of the hours on these carts to stay within warranty limits. You see there is more to it than just getting you in a cart and on your way to getting players to the first tee.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

How do you know for a fact your actions were speeding things up? You may have grabbed a cart that was meant for someone else already or some other event, carts have hour meters on them and courses have to keep track of the hours on these carts to stay within warranty limits. You see there is more to it than just getting you in a cart and on your way to getting players to the first tee.

They line them up outside to take. It's Sunday morning at 8. Anymore straws you want to grasp at to try to prove some lame point?

[Shindig]

They line them up outside to take. It's Sunday morning at 8. Anymore straws you want to grasp at to try to prove some lame point?

I'm still trying to picture the situation with this added information. Starter tells you to take any cart you want, and then tells you to take a different one?

[flopster]

I'm still trying to picture the situation with this added information. Starter tells you to take any cart you want, and then tells you to take a different one?

He's just adding this to try and substantiate his argument, otherwise he would have said they were all out front to just take as you please to begin with, he probably grabbed one out of order since he's one of those individuals who doesn't think he has to obey the rules like everyone else why else would the starter take cart numbers. It's not a lame point when some jerk threatens a volunteer who is only doing the task he was asked to do, why do you have a problem with going along with what the course wants in order to run a smooth operation for everyone to enjoy.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I'm still trying to picture the situation with this added information. Starter tells you to take any cart you want, and then tells you to take a different one?

He did not tell me to take whichever. They line them up 4 by 5 outside. After the 2 guys in front of me got done paying, I then paid, grabbed my bag and walked around the building, got my range balls and then waited a couple of minutes and this guy was still checking the first guys receipt. So I figured the only way to speed things up was to load up. I loaded on the first cart of the second row instead of the last cart of the first row. I did it five feet away from him and then when he got done with them he said he was going to give me a different cart. That's how oblivious the guy was. He didn't even notice me loading a cart right in front of him. [quote name="flopster" url="/t/68533/etiquette-having-lunch-after-9/90#post_1004989"] He's just adding this to try and substantiate his argument, otherwise he would have said they were all out front to just take as you please to begin with, he probably grabbed one out of order since he's one of those individuals who doesn't think he has to obey the rules like everyone else why else would the starter take cart numbers. It's not a lame point when some jerk threatens a volunteer who is only doing the task he was asked to do, why do you have a problem with going along with what the course wants in order to run a smooth operation for everyone to enjoy. [/quote] This course has you sign a receipt being responsible for cart damage and they take the cart number in case of damage. Wow your arguments are weak. You must be as slow as the guy I am talking about. Heck maybe it's you. You ever been a starter in charlotte?

[Slice of Life]

Now I am really scared. I will let my group know no more lunches in case you are in the group behind us. Hard to take someone serious who thinks they can beat everybody up as not being an internet tough guy.

I wouldn't expect someone who acts like a 4 year old to have any kind of reading comprehension skills. Where did I say anything about beating you up? You're the one talking about throwing fists and calling the police...I said I'd put you in your place. Telling you to quit acting like an a-hole and then me and my group teeing off anyway, is putting you in your (rightful) place.

The only internet tough guy here, is you.