Gross Misrepresentation of Truth

[Beachcomber]

I agree the first video is disingenuous. Even the second video has what appears to be an abbreviated back swing and calling it TGM which is pretty inaccurate at best. But... He did come back with what I'd call some pieces of meat in his last response. And while the meat may not have been cooked to your liking. There was some meat in the post. I'm not sure if the majority read it though because most of you have already wrote the guy off as a snake oil salesman.

[Zeph]

I agree the first video is disingenuous. Even the second video has what appears to be an abbreviated back swing and calling it TGM which is pretty inaccurate at best. But... He did come back with what I'd call some pieces of meat in his last response. And while the meat may not have been cooked to your liking. There was some meat in the post. I'm not sure if the majority read it though because most of you have already wrote the guy off as a snake oil salesman.

What meat? I can only find something about his thumb. [QUOTE]When learning or changing your Golf Swing the first thing to should do is look at the swing of the instructor that is going to teach you. If you do not like what you see, don't take lessons from him.[/QUOTE] By his own recommendation, I will stay well clear of STG. This guy on the other hand...

[Beachcomber]

I wanted to get something to discuss here, so I went ahead and bought the DVD. Here is my review: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/products/straight-talking-golf-dvd-by-dalton-mccrary/reviews/4775]Don't waste your money. This DVD will hurt your swing.[/URL]

Ok, this is constructive. Finally. Nice review by the way Zeph. Thank you for putting an end to the mystery. Sounds like terrible swing advice at impact.

[TJBam]

I think the conclusion we can draw is that mvmac has sick visor game (in addition to a beautiful, repeatable swing).

[RandallT]

My only other conclusion is that I'd look like a dweeb if I capitalize the letter "G" in every instance of the word "golf," particularly when it makes no sense to do so. Not sure anyone else noticed that in the OP's writing pattern (in addition to being long-winded, like many other DM acolytes seemed to be). I reviewed the pro-DM user profiles, and nearly all of them joined the site just for these two threads on DM and posted no other particularly interesting things about other topics on TST in their time here. Anyone neutral person evaluating these two threads should consider that as noteworthy.

Oh well, I can't wait to get out and Golf next week and forget this whole thread.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Erik and Mike are passionate about sharing their findings and have forged a path to a better golf game.  They help each person individually.  They are incredibly generous in their time and efforts to help the community become better golfers.  Come to think of it I need to make a donation to the site in the near future.

Cheers!

Thanks appreciate it

Originally Posted by dsc123

But his real offence, in my opinion, was his swiftboating of Mike.  He disparaged him in an unfair and misleading way comparing a drill to a full swing.  Mike handled it with his usual aplomb, but that's the sort of thing that someone might come across on youtube or on google searches and form a negative opinion for all the wrong reasons.  I've received some instruction from mike via evolver and that video really made me cringe.

Exactly the way I feel, well said.  I would have no issue with someone taking a somewhat recent swing of mine off my youtube page and tearing it apart.  It's just a swing and no swing is perfect.  There's nothing they can point out that I don't already know unless it's mumbo jumbo advice like the club traveling down the target line.  I'm not happy about the way Richard put his video together and the content he used for the reasons dsc123 stated above, the video is misleading and Richard knows it's misleading.

Originally Posted by Zeph

What meat? I can only find something about his thumb.

By his own recommendation, I will stay well clear of STG.

This guy on the other hand...

Thanks for using a real swing!

[rr1963]

From the Straight Talking Facebook page "Straight Talkers, If you are looking to know if my system works or not here's a link to an independent website called GolfReviews.com, some 13 years a ago they created a post that lets anyone review my product. The link below has 13 years worth of reviews and they have all been done by people like you off of their own back:" http://www.golfreview.com/cat/accessories/dalton-mccrary/straight-shootin-golf/prd_76476_2947crx.aspx#reviews They include reviews posted by Dalton McCrary and Richard Greening. Oh Zeph's is on there as well.

[bplewis24]

First off, I'd like to say that I read the first 3-4 paragraphs of that long-a** post from Richard Greening and it didn't share one freakin thing about the golf swing.  Just more and more anecdotal, philosophical, metaphorical bull****.

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

When I watched Dalton's old video for the first time he didn't just explain the grip, he explained how the muscles in my arms work. He explains that your little finger, ring finger and middle finger control the inner muscles in your arm and these are the controlling muscles and your index finger and thumb are connected to your outer muscles which are your power muscles. He was the first and only person in 15 years to teach me that!

Anyway, I have my doubts about this paragraph.  I thought Dalton's method was "this isn't rocket science, who cares how it happens...it just happens!!!"?  You guys are all full of sh**.

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rr1963

They include reviews posted by Dalton McCrary and Richard Greening.

And these, too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

But... He did come back with what I'd call some pieces of meat in his last response. And while the meat may not have been cooked to your liking. There was some meat in the post.

Very little meat, yes - a "long thumb is bad" but we're never told why or anything - and I think it falls under a case of "too little, too late" - especially when Richard has said more than once that "he's done."

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillR

Either Mr Greening is telling lies or the owners plagiarised http://www.purestrike.com/.

I said I will not list the lies, but three off the top of my head are:

1) Showing Mike's drill as if it was his real swing.

2) Suggesting that Mike or I own anything. Mike is a Director of Instruction for PureStrike/5 Simple Keys®. I am the Director of Instructor Development. This is not hard to find.

3) Saying that anyone has been rude to him.

So those are three very basic lies and/or misrepresentations, plain and obvious for all to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillR

I have to point out that Mr Greening has not actually told a lie.

"This is Mike's golf swing" is a lie. Using it in a video as he did is a lie, uncouth, and a gross misrepresentation of the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillR

I can (as an independent adjudicatory visitor)

The evidence for you being "independent" is slim. You joined on August 20, 2013. Seven of your nine posts are in these two threads. One other one is "I'm a sports scientist." The ninth is a short couple of sentences in "what makes golfers happy?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillR

If I were to choose a camp that welcomes people openly and does not suffer foolish behavior, I would honestly not choose this website (namely Sandtrap and associates)

Okay. Goodbye.

BTW, Zeph, this was particularly funny:

Quote:

Amidst all this terrible swing advice, there is a little humor, though not on purpose. While talking about how you want the clubface square at impact (which is apparently what makes you pull or slice, never mentions swing plane), he says: "Murphy's law: What goes up must come down." This is a quote, but from Isaac Newton. Murphy's Law says "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". Which ironically is what I feel about this DVD and what would happen if you take up his advice.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I agree the first video is disingenuous. Even the second video has what appears to be an abbreviated back swing and calling it TGM which is pretty inaccurate at best.

But... He did come back with what I'd call some pieces of meat in his last response. And while the meat may not have been cooked to your liking. There was some meat in the post.

I'm not sure if the majority read it though because most of you have already wrote the guy off as a snake oil salesman.

I read the first half of the wall-o-text and got bored with it.  When the "meat" is buried so deep you can barely find it, there's usually a reason for that.

Would you eat a sandwich with 1 piece of hot pastrami between 12 slices of bread?!?  I ask you again!  Would you eat a burger with 1 ounce of meat between 24 buns?!?

I SAID GOOD DAY SIR!

[Hacker James]

just let it die.  Deleting posts as soon as they appear is also a waste of time and effort and only serves to motivate multiple identity posts to get the final word.  The goal at least partially has already been achieved  i.e. to generate enough interest to cause curiosity seekers to make a purchase. I would wager there have been more than one. So what?  No need to lock the thread, just stop prolonging it by responding. People can make of it as they wish.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Hacker James

just let it die.  Deleting posts as soon as they appear is also a waste of time and effort and only serves to motivate multiple identity posts to get the final word.  The goal at least partially has already been achieved  i.e. to generate enough interest to cause curiosity seekers to make a purchase. I would wager there have been more than one. So what?  No need to lock the thread, just stop prolonging it by responding. People can make of it as they wish.

In defense of Erik / Mike, I marked the post as spam because I saw Richard created another id to respond within a thread he was banned from.  The creation of multiple ID's is a violation of the TOS for the site, plus the bulk of his post was filled with cheap personal shots at 5SK (Erik / Mike) and more plugs for his product.

[rr1963]

I agree with Newtogolf. I also found this: uk.linkedin.com/pub/steve-draper/33/743/568 Weeting, Norfolk, United Kingdom - ‎Head of Online Development _STG Steve Draper's Overview. Current. Head 0f Online Development at Straight Talking Golf; Owner at Better-Marketer. Education. Otley College, Ipswich, Suffolk ... They should be banned. I found other sites with random posts asking about DM and/or his videos but the threads would die out. I think that they were more successful in creating dialogue for the relaunch of his program.

[Hacker James]

Precisely!  It would appear that my original assessment was spot on. Others obviously, had the same assessment. Both threads did in fact create dialogue which in turn may have led some to investigate, purchase in an effort to find out for themselves.  The marketing ploy succeeded to a limited degree. The Draper thing also points to a marketing campaign/strategy.

[rr1963]

Props to Zeph for taking one for the team.

[birlyshirly]

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Not sure I'd want to be in a hospital run by that dictum, but I think it applies here.

If this thread gets picked up by googling Dalton McCrary Straight Shooting' Golf - then I think that's a public service.

[Russtopher]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

If this thread gets picked up by googling Dalton McCrary Straight Shooting' Golf - then I think that's a public service.

Really, I think that's what their true end goal was - to sell product (as others have mentioned), as well as to get DM's name along with the name of the program and links back to said program around the 'net. Google uses links to a site as a way to weight ranking, so even if the site is getting trashed, if numerous posts link to the site, Google gives it a higher rank. But thankfully the way DM and his reps acted and responded here will stay, so anyone looking for info on the program will hopefully find the threads here and be scared away. Very, very far away.

[iacas]

Really, I think that's what their true end goal was - to sell product (as others have mentioned), as well as to get DM's name along with the name of the program and links back to said program around the 'net. Google uses links to a site as a way to weight ranking, so even if the site is getting trashed, if numerous posts link to the site, Google gives it a higher rank. But thankfully the way DM and his reps acted and responded here will stay, so anyone looking for info on the program will hopefully find the threads here and be scared away. Very, very far away.

I think we've deleted all links to their sites (they've tried).