Brett Favre :-(

[newtogolf]

Brett Favre is the biggest diva to ever play QB in the league. Tom Brady wears ugs but Favre is STILL a bigger diva in my opinion. But no matter how much I dislike the guy I cant wish CTE or anything like that on anyone. Yes he made a ton of money but the NFL has covered up the dangers of CTE for years. I believe the name of the documentary was League of Denial, but there's some good info on the subject. I watched it and was pretty surprised how far Goodell and his Goon Squad went to keep players in the dark on this. Made me feel a little bad to be a football fan.

Brady is a diva, Favre was a football player who mentally wasn't prepared to walk away from the game.  Favre is one of the few QB's I like because he played the game like a linebacker.  Unfortunately, his body was ready to retire before his mind was and he tried to extend his career in order to prove to  everyone he could still be a superstar.

Too many football players can't handle the silence of sitting in their houses on Sunday, Favre wasn't the first and won't be the last to play a few seasons too many.  It's most likely those hits he took late in his career that did the most damage.  People criticized Barry Sanders for hanging up the cleats at such a young age but seems he was wise beyond his years, maybe more pro's should use him as their role model and not the ones that hang on too long.

[0ldblu3]

I've lost interest each of the past five or six years. I've watched all of about two or three games this year.

The NFL is bad. I know parents who aren't letting their kids play, and I support that decision.

Regardless of the lawsuits and publicity, this is the death knell of the NFL. Parents are the ones that have the ability to steer their children to sports and if I am worried that my son will get hurt, badly hurt, playing football then I will steer them to something else. Everything has risk, heck, the highest incidence of paralysis comes from Cheer (not a school sport usually). But if I'm the parent of Michael Vick today, looking at my talented but small kid, then I'm going to get him into soccer. Before people pile on, I know that soccer has risk too, but contact is not designed into the game, so it is much less likely. That being said, they are now coaching away from heading the ball until the players reach at least 12 years old. Or baseball and basketball, also a game that has contact, but is not designed into the game. Golf and tennis seem to be the only sports without intentional contact.

The point being that once the parents out there stop the flow of kids to the sport, it's going to dry up and die. Look at the steps the NFL is taking right now and think about the legal resources they have at their disposal. Do D2 and D3 schools have those resources? They are going to drop football rather than withstand the lawsuits from all of the former student athletes. It's going to be an interesting 20 years for football.

[newtogolf]

Regardless of the lawsuits and publicity, this is the death knell of the NFL. Parents are the ones that have the ability to steer their children to sports and if I am worried that my son will get hurt, badly hurt, playing football then I will steer them to something else. Everything has risk, heck, the highest incidence of paralysis comes from Cheer (not a school sport usually). But if I'm the parent of Michael Vick today, looking at my talented but small kid, then I'm going to get him into soccer. Before people pile on, I know that soccer has risk too, but contact is not designed into the game, so it is much less likely. That being said, they are now coaching away from heading the ball until the players reach at least 12 years old. Or baseball and basketball, also a game that has contact, but is not designed into the game. Golf and tennis seem to be the only sports without intentional contact.

The point being that once the parents out there stop the flow of kids to the sport, it's going to dry up and die. Look at the steps the NFL is taking right now and think about the legal resources they have at their disposal. Do D2 and D3 schools have those resources? They are going to drop football rather than withstand the lawsuits from all of the former student athletes. It's going to be an interesting 20 years for football.

I have no doubt that some parents will discourage their kids from playing football, especially with all the news coverage and lawsuits highlighting the risks.  That said, there's a big difference between youth football, H.S. football, D2-3 football, D1 football and NFL football.   I played football from when I was 10-19 (youth - div 2 college) and I've coached youth football.  During all the years I played football I had one concussion that was completely unrelated to football (I fell down a flight of stairs in my home).

The kids in youth football can barely move in all the equipment so the chances of a kid getting a concussion from impact is just about nil.  H.S. football in most areas is also pretty safe, the number of violent collisions has increased over the years but not near what you see in div 1 college or pro levels.  The reality is 90% of kids that play youth or H.S. football aren't good enough to play college football no less in the NFL and are at minimal risk of injury.

The NFL has addressed the concussion issue and I don't see it slowing down the sport.  Football is a major part of the culture in many rural areas and most will ignore the risk of injury for a shot to play for their favorite college or NFL team.

[Golfingdad]

I've lost interest each of the past five or six years. I've watched all of about two or three games this year.

The NFL is bad. I know parents who aren't letting their kids play, and I support that decision.

Funny.  I actually disagree with your NFL is bad statement.  I love watching football, pro and college.  And, I love what they are doing to try and make it safer.

On the other hand, I am also probably going to be in the group of parents trying to keep my kids out of playing football.  I'm pretty laid back, I'll likely let him if he insists (the wife probably won't though) but we'll certainly be steering him to golf, tennis, baseball, and anything else with little to no potential head contact. :)

[SloverUT]

It is funny this argument came up. I played football and baseball from youth through h.s. with baseball being my favorite. However I saw more serious injuries in baseball than I did in football.

[RonTheSavage]

Alot of people are starting to disagree with your Pee Wee Football is safe theory. This is from another doc I saw called United State of Football. One of the most troubling issues raised by the documentary, though—some might say the most troubling issue—is the potential danger to boys playing youth or “pee-wee” football, which includes boys anywhere from the age of 5 to 14. There are numerous youth leagues, the most popular among them being Pop Warner, which boasted more than 250,000 participants in 2010. Dr. Ann McKee, chief neuropathologist at Boston University who testified before a House Judiciary committee on football brain injuries in 2009, explains in the film that “because a young athlete’s brain is still developing, the effects of a concussion, or even many smaller hits over a season, can be far more detrimental, compared to the head injury in an older player.” (Often accused of trying to kill football, Dr. McKee is a devoted Packers fan. “I’m a cheesehead!” she proclaims proudly.) One of the film’s most jarring moments comes when Hall of Fame wide receiver Cris Carter declares, “Our best coaches are coaching our best players, and that’s in professional football. Our worst coaches are coaching the most critical position, and that is the 9-, 10-, 11-year-old people.” When I talked to Pamphilon last week, he explained, “At this level, you have no idea what a coach’s qualifications are as an instructor or his maturity as a man.” Many organizations, including Pop Warner, simply require coaches to complete an online course every three years.

[Jakester23]

Brady is a diva, Favre was a football player who mentally wasn't prepared to walk away from the game.  Favre is one of the few QB's I like because he played the game like a linebacker.  Unfortunately, his body was ready to retire before his mind was and he tried to extend his career in order to prove to  everyone he could still be a superstar.  Too many football players can't handle the silence of sitting in their houses on Sunday, Favre wasn't the first and won't be the last to play a few seasons too many.  It's most likely those hits he took late in his career that did the most damage.  People criticized Barry Sanders for hanging up the cleats at such a young age but seems he was wise beyond his years, maybe more pro's should use him as their role model and not the ones that hang on too long.

This Dave

[boogielicious]

Concussions happen in other sports too.  Hockey, baseball and soccer have this problem as well.  We can't just single out football.

[Golfingdad]

It is funny this argument came up. I played football and baseball from youth through h.s. with baseball being my favorite. However I saw more serious injuries in baseball than I did in football.

You are probably an outlier here then.  I can think of a handful of twisted ankles on bases, and a couple of welts from balls hitting people.  Whereas, in football, I think of at least a handful of times (in a much shorter career - only 2 seasons, I played baseball for 20-25 years) where somebody was carried off on a stretcher and/or sent to the hospital.

Personally:  In baseball my worst injury was a line drive to the nuts that did, thankfully - my username is proof - no lasting damage.  In football, in consecutive games, I received a gash on my lip requiring a dozen stitches, and then broke my leg the following week.

[SloverUT]

I probably played a lot more baseball than most kids as well. I played travel ball and played 70 to 80 games a year when most normal leaguea were playing 15 to 20.

[Lihu]

Personally:  In baseball my worst injury was a line drive to the nuts that did, thankfully - my username is proof - no lasting damage.  In football, in consecutive games, I received a gash on my lip requiring a dozen stitches, and then broke my leg the following week.

Ouch, and more ouch. We were just talking about line drives...

Football is the only team sport where the intention is to hit someone, many times.

[0ldblu3]

Concussions happen in other sports too.  Hockey, baseball and soccer have this problem as well.  We can't just single out football.

I try to be careful, I'm not against football and sports are really important in the development of kids. Concussions happen in all sports, and as I mentioned in my initial post, one of the worst "sports" is Cheerleading which has quiet problem with concussion and paralysis according to an article that I read in the New Yorker. These kids get thrown in the air and if anything goes wrong they have terrible impacts with the kids catching them or the ground.

That being said, football has impact built in. It a major component of the game. A researcher at a D1 school put accelerometers on helmets and came away saying that the offensive and defensive linemen were absorbing 4 car crashes worth of energy each practice (also a New Yorker article). This was actual science, not anecdotes or personal experience. There is, for the first time, a groundswell of awareness and concern in the general population not just the medical professionals. As more of these ex-players come forward, hero's that people loved to watch play, and say things like "I can't remember that game", or "I can't walk and I'm only 50", parents are going to dissuade the kids from playing.

Do this for a completely unscientific approach, two Google searches...one for "high school football deaths in 2013" the other the same except for substituting in "soccer". From what I can tell, five kids died from hits in games in 2013. It's this groundswell of awareness that poses the biggest threat to football, and players like Favre coming out with statements is just the beginning.

[iacas]

Concussions happen in other sports too.  Hockey, baseball and soccer have this problem as well.  We can't just single out football.

Yes we can. It's by far the worst offender.

[0ldblu3]

Here is the article I mentioned from the New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=1

I know it's Malcom Gladwell and the New Yorker so it's going to have a liberal bias, but the section about the research is straight forward (page 5). Measuring collisions is something engineers know how to do.

[Ernest Jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Concussions happen in other sports too.  Hockey, baseball and soccer have this problem as well.  We can't just single out football.

Yes we can. It's by far the worst offender.

Over the past couple of years hockey has been giving football a run for it's money. In fact I would not be surprised in the least if hockey has surpassed football. It's very hard to say though because a lot of teams play coy with the definitions but the NHL season is not even a quarter of the way in and there are concussed players all over the league already. Actually just looked around the net and there's about 10 players currently listed as concussed, post-concussion or suffering the infamous " concussion like symptoms " plus a handful of players listed as having an unspecified head injury. The NHL seasons only about 16 games in.

[iacas]

Over the past couple of years hockey has been giving football a run for it's money. In fact I would not be surprised in the least if hockey has surpassed football.

I don't think it has. Perhaps in the context of high profile concussions, but:

a) many concussions are still left untreated in the NFL because there's more of a "tough guy" mentality

b) players in the NFL, particularly for linemen, linebackers, etc. see repeated small hits ALL THE TIME. Hockey doesn't have this - thousands and thousands of fairly forceful hits to your head per week.

These small hits add up over time and is a new area which is seeing a lot of research as far as developing CTE, etc. That's why even kids - whose brains are still developing - are being pulled from football games. It's these small, repeated hits that may have a larger impact than the "big" ones.

[newtogolf]

I don't think it has. Perhaps in the context of high profile concussions, but:

a) many concussions are still left untreated in the NFL because there's more of a "tough guy" mentality

b) players in the NFL, particularly for linemen, linebackers, etc. see repeated small hits ALL THE TIME. Hockey doesn't have this - thousands and thousands of fairly forceful hits to your head per week.

These small hits add up over time and is a new area which is seeing a lot of research as far as developing CTE, etc. That's why even kids - whose brains are still developing - are being pulled from football games. It's these small, repeated hits that may have a larger impact than the "big" ones.

Can't agree with you here, there are way more "tough guys" in hockey than football.  The mentality in hockey is go pick up your teeth off the ice and get ready for your next shift.  I'd much prefer my kids play football than hockey.

[iacas]

Can't agree with you here, there are way more "tough guys" in hockey than football.  The mentality in hockey is go pick up your teeth off the ice and get ready for your next shift.  I'd much prefer my kids play football than hockey.

Okay, we won't agree then. Hockey stopped being quite so much about tough guys IMO when speed was introduced to the game over the stupid crap that perpetuated the 80s and 90s, all the gooning and clutch-and-grab nonsense. And I'm not talking about playing through injuries, which hockey players do.

Hockey players simply don't get hit thousands of times in the head per week.

Kids aren't even allowed to hit in youth hockey, so your comment about your kids makes no sense to me at all.