My Swing (Lihu)

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Thanks, this is appreciated. Yes, I've become really angry about wasting months of time, and unfortunately Bill struck a nerve point with me that started with @Golfingdad's comments that I was swinging as fast as I could in some video I posted which to me felt like I was swinging half speed or less. So, I spent a couple months worth of time with a SS monitor and swingbyte to try to get my swing speed down. Now, thanks to Mike, of course, I realized that all this crap about slowing down my swing was slowing down the back swing and transition. This change worked fine on the driving range yesterday, but fell completely apart on the course today. I feel like I could have been working on this 3 months ago along with my other swing changes.

@Lihu , I love ya man, but I really doubt the "change worked fine on the driving range" and then fell apart on the course.

You keep talking about swing speeds and stuff. Nobody here is talking about that.

You keep getting almost identical lessons from @mvmac because you never practice properly. You never seem to change the picture. You never seem to stick to something. Like I said, you go off on your own weird tangents and explore stuff that you have no business exploring, or trying to do, etc.

So yeah, you have a choice:

• Take a break from working with Mike and just play golf.
• Actually work with Mike and DO WHAT HE SAYS for the practice. Your next lesson should be 50% what to work on (dollars to doughnuts it's the same thing as always) and then 50% of the time showing you how to practice.

You should bring a camcorder or something that can record for 30 minutes straight so that you can record everything Mike says about HOW to practice and WHAT to practice, then do NOTHING ELSE but that for two months, SLOWLY ramping up the speed starting from 10%.

I posted in the Forum Leader discussion thread a bit more, so I don't want to duplicate stuff, but go read that too please.

This was like wasted development time. I could have been working on my short game and putting. Plus, I am not making progress nearly as fast as I think I should.

@Lihu , at the risk of beating a long-since-dead equine… that's because you don't practice properly. You don't make progress because you ignore what you are supposed to do and then go off on tangents of your own invention. You practice too quickly (balls/minute) and too fast (swing speed). You don't change the picture.

You think "I got it" after taking a lesson and that you should be able to "do it" because you understand it. And yet… .

As far as my equipment is concerned, I am using the "old faithful junk". It seems like steel feels good to me, and now that I can actually swing these clubs it's a cheaper solution. As far as my distances are concerned, I'm posting pretty much what I hit. I gained 33% swing speed or efficiency or some combination of the above. Okay, so I felt really good about this 2 months ago, but it's not good enough to only have this added distance.

Just being honest, but I doubt it. If you plotted all of your shots, I doubt you hit your 8I five yards past me. Maybe you do, and if I could see it I'd say I was wrong, but I doubt it. That's not even the point here, though. You should not be hitting an X100 steel shafted driver. No way, no how.

But what do I know…?

[Lihu]

@Lihu, I love ya man, but I really doubt the "change worked fine on the driving range" and then fell apart on the course.

If you plotted all of your shots, I doubt you hit your 8I five yards past me. Maybe you do, and if I could see it I'd say I was wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm exaggerating the "poor" performance on the course and my "pristine" performance on the driving range a tad. They were probably pretty similar, but on the range I don't get to see the ball go into a ditch. I was pretty upset about not shooting a lot better given how I hit on the range. . .I shot a practice round of 43 on the front 9 of the 6000 yard course without hitting extra balls except when required. It's not really just the score, but how I arrived at it that made me feel bad about it.

You hit your driver something like 286 yards, right? I barely hit mine 245, I don't understand how there could even be a comparison in 8i distances between the two of us?. . . Hitting an 8i past you? I also doubt that too. You definitely hit it straighter than me as well, so maybe I'm over swinging? Or something? Didn't even consider making any comparison between a pro and myself?

I do know that my 8i usually hits the distance to the center of the green from just a bit longer than the 150 marker. Some shots are lower and shorter , and usually roll to a few yards less. Maybe my use of the markers is faulty? If so, my PW and 9i need to be adjusted accordingly. . .But this one thing I can stand behind and prove anytime.

BTW, I have no idea what are my swing speeds.

[iacas]

I'm exaggerating the "poor" performance on the course and my "pristine" performance on the driving range a tad. They were probably pretty similar, but on the range I don't get to see the ball go into a ditch. I was pretty upset about not shooting a lot better given how I hit on the range. . .I shot a practice round of 43 on the front 9 of the 6000 yard course without hitting extra balls except when required. It's not really just the score, but how I arrived at it that made me feel bad about it.

I don't want to belabor this more than I already have… but you missed the point. Your swing doesn't change much. If it's looks like whatever on the range, it's probably almost identical on the course.

You hit your driver something like 286 yards, right? I barely hit mine 245, I don't understand how there could even be a comparison in 8i distances between the two of us?. . .Hitting an 8i past you? I also doubt that too.

You posted a list of your distances recently and put your 8I at 155 or so. Did you not?

Average distances, and I measured them today on the course from different lies in opposing light breeze conditions.

8i - 155 carry

9i- 145 carry (maybe a little more?)

P - 135 carry

52 - 120+ carry (use this for "127 yard" par 3 off the tee) How far I use it from is a feel thing.

60 - 95-98 carry (Pretty sure about this one. I can hit it over 100 yards if I deloft it severely)

I would imagine that's an "optimistic" look at your distances, particularly given the true averages factoring in your contact. Given your recent video, you may also be pulling the heck out of them.

I think you have an unrealistic view of a few things in golf.

• How long changes take to sink in.
• How to practice.
• How "good" you are or aren't.

And none of that - to be abundantly clear NONE OF THIS - is meant to make you feel bad.

It's important, very very very important, to not con yourself. And @Lihu , you're guilty of conning yourself.

So, that's all I have. You're a good dude. I'm done with the "tough love" stuff now.

[Lihu]

You posted a list of your distances recently and put your 8I at 155 or so. Did you not?

I would imagine that's an "optimistic" look at your distances, particularly given the true averages factoring in your contact. Given your recent video, you may also be pulling the heck out of them.

So, you're saying I'm lying about my stated distance with my 8i then proposing the reason is that I am hitting it the wrong way? Sure, I am probably pulling the heck out of them to get these distances, but I am telling the truth about my distances to the best of my ability.

Sigh, politics. Clearly there is something more at stake than my statement that I hit my 8i a little more than 150 yards. I'm not conning myself or anyone else, if you and others really think this I should just quit this site as there's nothing likeable about someone who lies or is deluded about themselves. Likewise, there is nothing I could gain, as any "advice" would be tainted with this doubt and hatred in some cases.

Sorry you all feel this way. @hacker101 was right about this site.

[newtogolf]

So, you're saying I'm lying about my stated distance with my 8i then proposing the reason is that I am hitting it the wrong way? Sure, I am probably pulling the heck out of them to get these distances, but I am telling the truth about my distances to the best of my ability.

Sigh, politics. Clearly there is something more at stake than my statement that I hit my 8i a little more than 150 yards. I'm not conning myself or anyone else, if you and others really think this I should just quit this site as there's nothing likeable about someone who lies or is deluded about themselves. Likewise, there is nothing I could gain, as any "advice" would be tainted with this doubt and hatred in some cases.

Sorry you all feel this way. @hacker101 was right about this site.

@Lihu you're taking too much of this the wrong way, I don't think Erik is accusing you of lying.

The question isn't what is the max you hit an 8i, it's what is the average distance you hit with a 8i.  I have hit an 8i 155 yards, but I average 135.  The shot I hit 155 was hit thin and rolled out a lot.  If you have 155 to the flag, are you pulling 8i or 7i?  If you hit 8i are you reaching your target as often as you'd expect?  Distance only matters once we have consistency.  IMO a pulled shot that misses the target isn't what we're striving for and certainly shouldn't be the basis for club selection.

It seems like you're being too hard on yourself and misinterpreting some good advice.

[mvmac]

So, you're saying I'm lying about my stated distance with my 8i then proposing the reason is that I am hitting it the wrong way? Sure, I am probably pulling the heck out of them to get these distances, but I am telling the truth about my distances to the best of my ability.

Sigh, politics. Clearly there is something more at stake than my statement that I hit my 8i a little more than 150 yards. I'm not conning myself or anyone else, if you and others really think this I should just quit this site as there's nothing likeable about someone who lies or is deluded about themselves. Likewise, there is nothing I could gain, as any "advice" would be tainted with this doubt and hatred in some cases.

Sorry you all feel this way. @hacker101 was right about this site.

You're obviously free to leave or stop posting. I would recommend taking a few days off and coming back with a fresh perspective.

You feel attacked when no one is actually attacking you, it's just called tough love because people are seeing you need a "kick in the butt" about the way you practice. I agree you need to take a hard look at HOW you practice. Erik posted this another thread, " Hitting 20 balls properly often does more to change your swing than 100 balls hit improperly". You need to get out of the "rapid fire" mode and really work on changing the picture. The thing is you know you can do it, you've demonstrating it during and shortly after our lessons.

There are no politics, we aren't out to get you, people are taking the time out of their day to try and help. If they really didn't like you or think you weren't a good guy they wouldn't even post in your thread.

I think you have an unrealistic view of a few things in golf.

How long changes take to sink in.

How to practice.

@Lihu the above is more of what Erik is referring to when he says you're "conning" yourself, not the 8 iron distance. He says you're being optimistic about the distance you hit it, which doesn't mean that you've never hit an 8 iron 155 yards just that it's probably not your average stock 8 iron distance.

So like I said, take a couple days off and understand that the advice you've been given is constructive criticism and not an attack on you personally. You've been a member for a while, you've gotten to know some of the posters, you see how Erik and I help golfers we'll never meet in person, you've read LSW, I think you know they're all good guys.

[iacas]

@Lihu , I sent you a PM, as something is clearly being lost in translation here.

Nobody's being rude, mean, etc. Everyone posting wants you to get better at golf.

The "don't con yourself" line is something @david_wedzik and I say all the time to ourselves . It speaks to having a false confidence about something - which leads to spending time going down the wrong road. It speaks to fully understanding something, testing it thoroughly before adopting it, and more.

[Lihu]

The question isn't what is the max you hit an 8i, it's what is the average distance you hit with a 8i.  I have hit an 8i 155 yards, but I average 135.  The shot I hit 155 was hit thin and rolled out a lot.  If you have 155 to the flag, are you pulling 8i or 7i?  If you hit 8i are you reaching your target as often as you'd expect?  Distance only matters once we have consistency.  IMO a pulled shot that misses the target isn't what we're striving for and certainly shouldn't be the basis for club selection.

It seems like you're being too hard on yourself and misinterpreting some good advice.

No way you can average 135, and hit one freak shot 155.

[mdl]

No way you can average 135, and hit one freak shot 155.

The key word was thin.  With short irons you can easily hit an ugly thin one 20 extra yards.  Yes, without monster wind, it would be incredibly rare if you average 135 to hit a flush shot 155.

[newtogolf]

No way you can average 135, and hit one freak shot 155.

Interesting that you were offended by someone calling you a liar had no issue with accusing me.

@mdl is correct, I said I hit the shot "thin".  Also average 135 means shots typically range from 130 - 140 yards, it doesn't take much to get a lot of run out if the ground is hard and you strike the ball thin.  That also doesn't mean I can't hit my 8i longer, but to try and hit it longer introduces a greater risk of a pull shot so I'd rather just use a longer club.

The original point I was making is that the distances you hit each iron isn't a competition, the important part is that you know which club to pull for a given distance so that you reach your target.

[Phil McGleno]

What in the name of all that is holy did I miss in here? My oh my. Where are the rude posts? I did not see any.

[Dave2512]

You can certainly have that much variation from average as a higher handicap golfer because your average shot distance with any club is more mishits than perfect strikes. I urge you to look at the Game Golf profiles of some of the better players on TST. I peeked at the profile of a very well respected member that plays near scratch. Their average was mid 140's with a best to worst in the 130-165 range.

[iacas]

I urge you to look at the Game Golf profiles of some of the better players on TST. I peeked at the profile of a very well respected member that plays near scratch. Their average was mid 140's with a best to worst in the 130-165 range.

Mostly OT, so…

To be fair (you may have been talking about me, or @mvmac ), GAME Golf obviously includes every shot that isn't deemed to be a punch-out or a horrible shot or something, and only from the last 20 rounds or so. If you face a few 8-irons into a breeze, or you flight your 8-iron and hit a little punch shot with them more than a few times, the average can be brought down. From a good lie on the fairway and no wind, my stock 8I yardage is about 151. I hit it within a few yards of that the vast majority of the time.

Mike's is a bit shorter but again he's pretty consistent with that.

FWIW I almost never hit a shot inside of 160 yards 100%. I'm almost always flighting the ball a little bit.

But anyway, that's OT since this is still @Lihu 's Swing thread, regardless of how badly he wants to misinterpret what's been done to try to help him.

[Play4Fun]

hi Lihu,

You sounded like me lol. I'm determined to be a better student and not over analyse. I am a science person myself and that is more detrimental to golf than anything.

Take it easy and really keep nailing one thing at a time no matter how much time. I think we are in good hands here. Good Luck.

[No Mulligans]

hi Lihu,

You sounded like me lol. I'm determined to be a better student and not over analyse. I am a science person myself and that is more detrimental to golf than anything.

Take it easy and really keep nailing one thing at a time no matter how much time. I think we are in good hands here. Good Luck.

I'm in this camp too, is I'm an analytical personality type both at work and away from work.  I have to fight that when it comes to golf practice.  This thread and specifically the comments from Erik have been helpful as a reminder to me on how I should be practicing and that is the 5 S's with an emphasis on slow and specific.

[iacas]

Though I feel it was made abundantly clear already, I will state unequivocally that nobody that I know of (including myself) think @Lihu is a "liar."

This shouldn't even need to be said, but… there it is, despite that.

@Lihu , people meant this when they said "slow": .

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, you're saying I'm lying about my stated distance with my 8i then proposing the reason is that I am hitting it the wrong way? Sure, I am probably pulling the heck out of them to get these distances, but I am telling the truth about my distances to the best of my ability.

Sigh, politics. Clearly there is something more at stake than my statement that I hit my 8i a little more than 150 yards. I'm not conning myself or anyone else, if you and others really think this I should just quit this site as there's nothing likeable about someone who lies or is deluded about themselves. Likewise, there is nothing I could gain, as any "advice" would be tainted with this doubt and hatred in some cases.

Sorry you all feel this way. @hacker101 was right about this site.

@Lihu you're taking too much of this the wrong way, I don't think Erik is accusing you of lying.

The question isn't what is the max you hit an 8i, it's what is the average distance you hit with a 8i.  I have hit an 8i 155 yards, but I average 135.  The shot I hit 155 was hit thin and rolled out a lot.  If you have 155 to the flag, are you pulling 8i or 7i?  If you hit 8i are you reaching your target as often as you'd expect?  Distance only matters once we have consistency.  IMO a pulled shot that misses the target isn't what we're striving for and certainly shouldn't be the basis for club selection.

It seems like you're being too hard on yourself and misinterpreting some good advice.

Yeah, thanks, and see below for my apology to you. . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

No way you can average 135, and hit one freak shot 155.

The key word was thin.  With short irons you can easily hit an ugly thin one 20 extra yards.  Yes, without monster wind, it would be incredibly rare if you average 135 to hit a flush shot 155.

I need to read through this thread better, and my PM to you was prior to my reading the latest posts. Thanks for the support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

No way you can average 135, and hit one freak shot 155.

Interesting that you were offended by someone calling you a liar had no issue with accusing me.

@mdl is correct, I said I hit the shot "thin".  Also average 135 means shots typically range from 130 - 140 yards, it doesn't take much to get a lot of run out if the ground is hard and you strike the ball thin.  That also doesn't mean I can't hit my 8i longer, but to try and hit it longer introduces a greater risk of a pull shot so I'd rather just use a longer club.

The original point I was making is that the distances you hit each iron isn't a competition, the important part is that you know which club to pull for a given distance so that you reach your target.

Sorry for this, it was completely unintentional that I called you a liar, that was as far from what I wanted to do as possible. I was responding as if I were hitting the balls with my 135 yard iron, and would almost never expect it to go 155 yards. Again, sorry for unintentionally accusing you.

What in the name of all that is holy did I miss in here?

My oh my.

Where are the rude posts? I did not see any.

No rude posts, except maybe mine?

I'm getting some friends to help me read through the posts so I can understand them better.

hi Lihu,

You sounded like me lol. I'm determined to be a better student and not over analyse. I am a science person myself and that is more detrimental to golf than anything.

Take it easy and really keep nailing one thing at a time no matter how much time. I think we are in good hands here. Good Luck.

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Play4Fun

hi Lihu,

You sounded like me lol. I'm determined to be a better student and not over analyse. I am a science person myself and that is more detrimental to golf than anything.

Take it easy and really keep nailing one thing at a time no matter how much time. I think we are in good hands here. Good Luck.

I'm in this camp too, is I'm an analytical personality type both at work and away from work.  I have to fight that when it comes to golf practice.  This thread and specifically the comments from Erik have been helpful as a reminder to me on how I should be practicing and that is the 5 S's with an emphasis on slow and specific.

Thanks, again. . .

Though I feel it was made abundantly clear already, I will state unequivocally that nobody that I know of (including myself) think @Lihu  is a "liar."

This shouldn't even need to be said, but… there it is, despite that.

@Lihu, people meant this when they said "slow": ​ .

Just read this, Erik. I didn't see it when I responded to you two PM ago. Thanks for clearing this up.

Thanks guys, it will take some time for me to digest everything written here, and I will be busy engineering stuff for the next 3 weeks or more. When I get back from travel, I'll put a lot more effort into trying to understand what was stated. . .

[Play4Fun]

Lihu, I took a look at this thread and I think I could explain your irons shots. My irons is also like that. Used to. My 7 irons could go 185 yards but left and right. But my driver could go 290 yards and my 3 woods also around 280. That was before and the thing is I really go for it like a long drive champion. And nobody can get good scores like that. The swing should be relaxing with little effort. I lost tons of distance in irons. But so what. Golf is much easier when we are relaxed. It's not a distance enhancing game. It's a scoring game. We can hit 7 irons 135 yards but if it's straight and controllable and we have a relax state of mind and swing. We can score better. I know it's impressive to hit distance but it's not consistent. And the score became inconsistent. So the objective should also change, build a relax repeatable controllable swing. And the distance will slowly come after that. Being relaxed equals better state of mind too. Just my 2 cents .