Club face at address

[David in FL]

I can place the club face square to any line or plane you wish but if it's not in a properly balanced square position in the hands to begin with then the lines you are referring to are falsely placed and will be meaningless when the club head is flying at 100mph towards the ball.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the question posed by the OP.  Out of courtesy to the OP, let's please keep on topic.

[iacas]

When discussing the target, i'd ask that people use the terms "right" and "left." Convention also says that unless you state otherwise, you're talking about a right-handed golfer.

It's confusing to say the clubface is "open" - that implies that the ball will cut because "open" implies or is often interpreted as "to the path."

A ball that draws properly is pointed right of the target at impact, with a path farther to the right.

So again:

- "Right" and "Left" when referring to target line (clubface or path).

- "Open" and "Closed" when referring to clubface relative to path.

---

And also: where you set it up at address bears only a tenuous relationship to where you return it at impact. I've known push-drawers who start with a clubface aimed well to the left. I've known faders who start with a clubface aimed well right of the target line.

[freedrop]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the question posed by the OP.  Out of courtesy to the OP, let's please keep on topic.

Sorry my friend but I addressed the posters question directly with my first post and know it's necessary to add caveats otherwise I/we are not giving him the full story.

[boogielicious]

I set my club face to bet slightly open to my intended path at impact, which is even more open to the final target landing area.  So it would look open to someone looking at me face on at address.

[Golfingdad]

And also: where you set it up at address bears only a tenuous relationship to where you return it at impact. I've known push-drawers who start with a clubface aimed well to the left. I've known faders who start with a clubface aimed well right of the target line.

Right, and I think this is precisely why the "old ball flight laws" had so much credence for so long, and sadly in a lot of peoples cases, they still do.  Guys made the assumption (because they didn't have high speed video or radar) that they were returning the club to its setup position at impact, when in fact, they were not.

[cuzcapri]

every we are talking about is the club face relative to the swing path for right handed golfer im assuming that we all set our body lines parallel to the target. so if your right handed swinging from in to out and the face is closed relative to the path the ball is going to start right of the target and work back toward to the target if your swing is in to out and your face s closed relative to your target line the ball is going to go left and curve even more left and vise versa

[iacas]

every we are talking about is the club face relative to the swing path for right handed golfer im assuming that we all set our body lines parallel to the target.

That's an irrelevant assumption. I can hit draws with an "open" (left of parallel) stance, and vice versa.

so if your right handed swinging from in to out and the face is closed relative to the path the ball is going to start right of the target and work back toward to the target

Not necessarily:

a) Face 10° left of target at impact.

b) Path "in to out" or 3° right of target at impact.

Ball starts left and hooks farther left. Note that my stance can be oriented any direction and produce the numbers above.

The words you use are important.

I'm going to enforce this rule (in my quote): posts which disobey this rule (i.e. they're confusing) will be deleted.

When discussing the target, i'd ask that people use the terms "right" and "left." Convention also says that unless you state otherwise, you're talking about a right-handed golfer.

It's confusing to say the clubface is "open" - that implies that the ball will cut because "open" implies or is often interpreted as "to the path."

A ball that draws properly is pointed right of the target at impact, with a path farther to the right.

So again:

- "Right" and "Left" when referring to target line (clubface or path).

- "Open" and "Closed" when referring to clubface relative to path.

[cuzcapri]

That's an irrelevant assumption. I can hit draws with an "open" (left of parallel) stance, and vice versa.

Not necessarily:

a) Face 10° left of target at impact.

b) Path "in to out" or 3° right of target at impact.

Ball starts left and hooks farther left. Note that my stance can be oriented any direction and produce the numbers above.

The words you use are important.

I'm going to enforce this rule (in my quote): posts which disobey this rule (i.e. they're confusing) will be deleted.

you know exactly what im trying to say. not trying to be confusing. please clarify so if it comes up again i don't sound like an idiot

[iacas]

you know exactly what im trying to say. not trying to be confusing. please clarify so if it comes up again i don't sound like an idiot

All we can do is read what's written. That's why I'm asking that everyone follow the very basic rules to avoid confusion.

I don't know to what part of my post you're replying specifically, so I'll just leave it at that.

[cuzcapri]

every we are talking about is the club face relative to the swing path for right handed golfer im assuming that we all set our body lines parallel to the target. so if your right handed swinging from in to out and the face is closed relative to the path the ball is going to start right of the target and work back toward to the target if your swing is in to out and your face s closed relative to your target line the ball is going to go left and curve even more left and vise versa

sorry if this was confusing. after rereading it i think i understand what i didn't say. as a right handed golfer setting up to the ball with your body lines parallel to the target line swing from in to out if the face is closed to the path the ball will start right and work back left.  if your swing path is in to out and the club face open to path the ball start right and curve farther right.

if your swing path is out to in and your club face is closed to the path the ball will start left and curve farther left and if your face is open to the swing path your ball will start left and curve right

[iacas]

sorry if this was confusing. after rereading it i think i understand what i didn't say. as a right handed golfer setting up to the ball with your body lines parallel to the target line swing from in to out if the face is closed to the path the ball will start right and work back left.

That's the part that's confusing: you could have the face so closed to the path that it's also pointing left of the target, and thus, will start left.

You make the same error here:

if your swing path is out to in and your club face is closed to the path the ball will start left and curve farther left and if your face is open to the swing path your ball will start left and curve right

Unless it's pointing so far to the right that it starts right…

[Golfingdad]

.... swing from in to out if the face is closed to the path the ball will start right and work back left.

Nice try, but you're still leaving out words.  If the face is closed to the path it will definitely curve left, however, you have not said where the face is in relation to the target.  If its left of the target (which is still closed to the path) then its going to start left and work more left.

If you said swing path out to the right, and clubface closed to that path, but also to the right of the target , then yes ... it will start right and work back left.

[cuzcapri]

That's the part that's confusing: you could have the face so closed to the path that it's also pointing left of the target, and thus, will start left.

You make the same error here:

Unless it's pointing so far to the right that it starts right…

you my friend are absolutely correct. thank you for clarifying this for me so i don't make that mistake again.

[golferJake]

i used to have a problem of coming through with a closed face but i have fixed it by moving my stance up a few inches

[cutshot878]

If you've already gripped the club in the left hand, doesn't opening the face at address just strengthen your left hand grip (more clockwise) and therefore offset any extra lofting of the clubface by opening it? When I look in the mirror, having already gripped the club with my fairly weak left hand grip and I open the face as I address the ball, this is what happens:  My grip strengthens, even though the face is open. I know have a "Neutral" grip.

When I close the face at address, my left hand grip becomes more weak--- more counterclockwise with the V pointing up at the chin.  So if you've already gripped the club and then you close or open the face, does this really change anything? Closing the face weakens the grip and offsets any change at impact. Opening the face strengthens the grip and offsets any change.

Mr. Nicklaus?  A little help here?  Why do most good ball strikers address the ball with the clubface open?  So they can be free to release it as hard as they want without closing the clubface too early? Wasn't that your explanation in "Golf My Way?"

[mvmac]

If you've already gripped the club in the left hand, doesn't opening the face at address just strengthen your left hand grip (more clockwise) and therefore offset any extra lofting of the clubface by opening it?

You hold the club in front of you, set the face a little right and then grip it. Or you can do like Sergio does, right hand on the club, came aim the face where you want the ball to start and then grip it. You should never change the face once you've gripped it with both hands.

Why do most good ball strikers address the ball with the clubface open?

Because better players tend to draw the ball. Obviously the ball curves from right to left when you draw it, so you have to start the ball somewhere right of the target, face determines start line. You can also hit the ball higher when the face is right.

[cutshot878]

Sounds logical. Makes sense. Better players naturally tend to draw the ball because they hit the ball from the inside? Because they know how to start the transition and downswing by leading with the lower body by executing a left-hip-clearing pivot? Or because they have learned (found it in the dirt after 750,000 swings) to release the club more naturally and powerfully?   Or both?

[mvmac]

Sounds logical. Makes sense. Better players naturally tend to draw the ball because they hit the ball from the inside? Because they know how to start the transition and downswing by leading with the lower body by executing a left-hip-clearing pivot? Or because they have learned (found it in the dirt after 750,000 swings) to release the club more naturally and powerfully?   Or both?

Because they own the first 3 Keys