Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Hi Colin... I can't agree.  It has to do with the ol' supination/pronation thing.  If you come into impact all squared up you'll be flipping the club and leaving everything to the right... slice or push.  That toe passing the heel speeds everything up... higher swing speed... more distance.  Promotes a draw... more roll out.

No.

[HitAndGiggle]

5 hours ago, Grinde6 said:

I lifted and trained this off-season like I never have before.  Started working on golf specific muscles/movements, lots of core, legs, back, twisting, etc, to see if it would help me with distance/swing speed.  I put on about 10-15lbs of muscle with my routine.  I was also stretching alot which I hadn't really ever done before.  I gained about 3 mph of clubhead speed since the end of last year.  I would say it is more attributable to the stretches I have been doing than it is to the lifting, or equal at best.  I think that if a person did yoga and became more flexible without lifting weights, that person would see a small gain in ss and distance IMO. 

I was a pretty serious lifter from high school until about 45. Terrible for my golf swing. Leg strength and core strength are helpful though - other stuff being equal. Flexibility is key. 

[Double Mocha Man]

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

No.

Well, if you're squaring up early, a foot or two from impact, then you end up in "block" mode... because there's no room left for the toe passing the heel. If it does you've got your duck hook.  What I'm suggesting, maybe not so eloquently, is the push-draw.  A downswing path a few degrees inside to out with the face pointing a degree or two left of that path/plane.  

[colin007]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Hi Colin... I can't agree.  It has to do with the ol' supination/pronation thing.  If you come into impact all squared up you'll be flipping the club and leaving everything to the right... slice or push.  That toe passing the heel speeds everything up... higher swing speed... more distance.  Promotes a draw... more roll out.

You do realize that a draw that ends up at the target was hit with an open clubface, right? You can flip badly and hit pulls all day.

Distance is a factor of centered contact, smash factor, and swing speed, among other things.

18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, if you're squaring up early, a foot or two from impact, then you end up in "block" mode... because there's no room left for the toe passing the heel. If it does you've got your duck hook.  What I'm suggesting, maybe not so eloquently, is the push-draw.  A downswing path a few degrees inside to out with the face pointing a degree or two left of that path/plane.  

The difference between path and face is what creates the curve of the ball. It has almost nothing to do with the face turning over at impact, that's far too little time to impart spin in a millisecond.

Edited April 14, 2017 by colin007
Spelling

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, if you're squaring up early, a foot or two from impact

Who said anything about doing that?

And nobody squares it early and then holds it or rotates it open. Doesn't happen.

52 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

What I'm suggesting, maybe not so eloquently, is the push-draw.

I can hit push draws all day without excessively letting the toe roll over.

[rehmwa]

7 hours ago, Grinde6 said:

I think that if a person did yoga and became more flexible without lifting weights, that person would see a small gain in ss and distance IMO. 

You do serious yoga, and one will get a TON of strength and muscle.  Can only be good for all aspects of life, including the golf game.

[Double Mocha Man]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

Who said anything about doing that?

And nobody squares it early and then holds it or rotates it open. Doesn't happen.

I can hit push draws all day without excessively letting the toe roll over.

I think if you square up early you may hold off your right hand over left so as to not get the quick hook.  Thus blocking.  As a function of a good swing the clubface is naturally rotating from open to closed.  Though not excessively, as you said. With all due respect,  I suspect this is an issue of semantics.

[rehmwa]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, if you're squaring up early, a foot or two from impact, then you end up in "block" mode... because there's no room left for the toe passing the heel. If it does you've got your duck hook.  What I'm suggesting, maybe not so eloquently, is the push-draw.  A downswing path a few degrees inside to out with the face pointing a degree or two left of that path/plane.  

The face coming to its contact angle is a component of the flight path, sure.  But I really don't think thing that the rate of the (toe vs heel) relative closure adds anything special to distance

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I think if you square up early you may hold off your right hand over left so as to not get the quick hook.  Thus blocking.  As a function of a good swing the clubface is naturally rotating from open to closed.  Though not excessively, as you said. With all due respect,  I suspect this is an issue of semantics.

semantics - well, you just opened that can of worms.....enjoy  (once you noted naturally getting the face to contact I'm ok with it now)

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, rehmwa said:

The face coming to its contact angle is a component of the flight path, sure.  But I really don't think thing that the rate of the (toe vs heel) relative closure adds anything special to distance

I agree.  In and of itself the toe passing the heel adds nothing.  Not a yard.  But, in my view, the concept of this swing thought as you begin the downswing sets you up physically for a better path, faster arms, faster swingspeed... everything else being equal and sequentially timed.

The sun is out today... it's getting warmer... I may have to change my photo.  :)

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I think if you square up early you may hold off your right hand over left so as to not get the quick hook.

Literally nobody is suggesting that.

28 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

As a function of a good swing the clubface is naturally rotating from open to closed.

Key word there: naturally.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Literally nobody is suggesting that.

Nor am I suggesting that.  But that is what happens if the swing squares up too early.  And you let things continue to rotate and you get the severely closed face at impact... 

[Pretzel]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Nor am I suggesting that.  But that is what happens if the swing squares up too early.  And you let things continue to rotate and you get the severely closed face at impact... 

If you do that you hit a snap hook unless you made some crazy OTT move to get there and the face is somehow square to your path. The problem is, nobody does that ("squares" the face too early).

3 hours ago, iacas said:

And nobody squares it early and then holds it or rotates it open. Doesn't happen.

Try it for yourself and you'll see why it doesn't happen. Try to make an entire swing with the clubface hooded and you'll realize how unnatural feeling it is and why no golfer would be doing that. You'll find that it's incredibly uncomfortable on your wrists to do. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Nor am I suggesting that.  But that is what happens if the swing squares up too early.  And you let things continue to rotate and you get the severely closed face at impact... 

Why do you keep talking about the swing "squaring up too early?" Nobody's talking about that.

This is what you originally said:

6 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If you come into impact all squared up you'll be flipping the club and leaving everything to the right... slice or push.  That toe passing the heel speeds everything up... higher swing speed... more distance.  Promotes a draw... more roll out.

The toe passing the heel happens naturally. People shouldn't try to force it. "Coming into impact all squared up" is vague, but if you're squared up you're not gonna push it or slice it. And people rolling their hands over to try to "toe pass the heel" will tend to flip a lot more than someone coming into impact "square."

Also, all else being equal… the toe passing the heel actually promotes cut bias. Just like when you heel it. Gear effect.

Anyway, to be clear, please stop talking about the club being "square" a foot or two before impact, and please stop talking about making the toe pass the heel. It happens, it's not something I think people should TRY to MAKE happen.

[Jack Watson]

I think choppers swing through as if the sweet spot and shaft were inline the way an axe is.  Same with a hammer.  The golf club is not designed that way.

The real swing has the sweet spot move differently from that in relation to the shaft.

Imo you don't obstruct the sweet spots passage consciously and you don't force it through consciously in a good swing.

It just happens to come through.

 

 

[mvmac]

8 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

That toe passing the heel speeds everything up... higher swing speed... more distance.  Promotes a draw... more roll out.

As others have pointed out, this isn't correct, kind of golf magazine jargon. 

Bubba and DJ, toe isn't rolling" over the heel and they hit it pretty far. The toe rolling over the heel doesn't automatically create more speed or make it draw (if anything it can do the opposite). And you certainly don't need to do it in order to avoid a slice/push.