Is Golf a Sport or a Game?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm not the starting shortstop for the Pirates because I don't have the skill, not because I don't have the physical ability.

Are you sure about this one?  I believe you about the Steelers and the Penguins, but the Pirates?  Don't sell yourself short.

You don't have to reply, I'll do it for you ... "At least they're not the Padres."

Ouch.  Touche.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

I saw someone who said anything with judges was not a sport. That means boxing is not a sport, when in fact its the oldest sport in the world. Older than wrestling, which goes back to the greeks.

That was me, and I realize that it is ridiculous.  In fact, I even mentioned boxing when I wrote that "rule."  Boxing, at its essence, based on the common definitions on here is about as "sport" as you can get.  Athleticism, physical skill, competitiveness, rules, etc.  It has it all.  But also, at its essence, there is an end result of somebody being unable to continue fighting (KO or TKO or, in ancient times, death), thus the other fighter is obviously the winner.

But when they stop the game, then somebody makes an arbitrary decision about who was better, its hard to consider that a sport.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

That was me, and I realize that it is ridiculous.  In fact, I even mentioned boxing when I wrote that "rule."  Boxing, at its essence, based on the common definitions on here is about as "sport" as you can get.  Athleticism, physical skill, competitiveness, rules, etc.  It has it all.  But also, at its essence, there is an end result of somebody being unable to continue fighting (KO or TKO or, in ancient times, death), thus the other fighter is obviously the winner.

But when they stop the game, then somebody makes an arbitrary decision about who was better, its hard to consider that a sport.

See, I saw the same thing, especially with stuff like skating and snowboarding. True, those guys can do some pretty ridiculous stuff, but winning and losing is an arbitrary matter, how can it be considered a sport?

[0ldblu3]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

At the higest level they are. They require physical precision and effort. I dont like darts, but that shit is HARD. Horseshoes, not so much, more of a game imo. Are there Horseshoe championships? Shooting sports are in the olympics. They are definitely sports, and are precision based.

I saw someone who said anything with judges was not a sport. That means boxing is not a sport, when in fact its the oldest sport in the world. Older than wrestling, which goes back to the greeks.

Everyone tries to make their own definition, when it very clearly has an exact one.

I made the comment about judging.  The reason for it is that judging is biased and whereas most judged competitions do what they can to eliminate bias, it is still biased. Boxing is a difficult one because it can live in both worlds: it has an absolute "win" criteria in that one contestant can knock out the other and render any judges scoring moot, or it goes to the judges cards.  The scoring in boxing is something that I do not understand.

However, I will say "Boxing not a sport" because this is an argument that I've enjoyed for nearly 20 years in my household and I've got to stick to my guns.  My point is that you need to be able to declare a winner based on a quantifiable win condition (score/time).

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by 0ldblu3

However, I will say "Boxing not a sport" because this is an argument that I've enjoyed for nearly 20 years in my household and I've got to stick to my guns.  My point is that you need to be able to declare a winner based on a quantifiable win condition (score/time).

Soccer, Football, Hockey, and many other sports can end in a tie, without a winner declared...

[Kapanda]

On boxing, I heard somewhere that thoughts of changing the scoring system be implemented, since the technological ability to do so now exists.

So, let the matches be scored by the number of punches landed and stuff.

Not going to completely get rid of ambiguity but...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Yeah, cuz nothing defines speed, strength, agility, and quickness like a 4 iron out of the rough...

You need those things to hit that shot.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I love football, and I used to play it. I never made the big leagues because I wasn't athletic enough AND I wasn't skilled enough. I'm never going to be a a pro MMA fighter neither, because I'm not athletic or skilled enough. Golf, however, requires a lot more skill than I currently have, but not much more (if at all) athletic ability.

You don't really have a clue whether you're "athletic" enough. You're guessing, based on the one round of golf that you've played. You still haven't defined "athletic ability."

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Soccer, Football, Hockey, and many other sports can end in a tie, without a winner declared...

A tie is not the same thing as somebody arbitrarily choosing a winner.

If, in soccer, at the end of the game, the referee said that "Man U had a few more crisp passes and chest traps than Arsenal, therefore, I declare them the winner" ... then you'd have an argument there.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by iacas

You need those things to hit that shot.

You don't really have a clue whether you're "athletic" enough. You're guessing, based on the one round of golf that you've played. You still haven't defined "athletic ability."

Also thought it was obvious I was using myself as a mere example.

Say I'm a fat out of shape dude. My point would still stand.

I did define athletic ability anyway. Not going to regurgitate that as well.

Will regurgitate this though, just to put a full stop on this: it's not like some level of athleticism isn't required to play golf at a pro level, it's that the level of athleticism and physical ability required to do so is not much higher (if at all) than the level an average, off the street individual would be able to show. Unlike consensus sports like football, basketball, etc., that require levels many times higher than the average person has.

You can say I'm just saying this because I don't have any golfing experience. I would be surprised if you didn't know yourself people with golfing experience that are saying the same thing. Some of them have posted in this thread.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Say I'm a fat out of shape dude. My point would still stand.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I did define athletic ability anyway. Not going to regurgitate that as well.

You defined it by saying a bunch of other words that you failed to define. Words like "speed" which I contend golf requires.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Will regurgitate this though, just to put a full stop on this: it's not like some level of athleticism isn't required to play golf at a pro level, it's that the level of athleticism and physical ability required to do so is not much higher (if at all) than the level an average, off the street individual would be able to show.

Finally, something semi-concrete. It gives me the chance to say this: you're wrong. The average dude off the street ain't swinging a club at 110+ MPH let alone controlling it. Golf requires "many times higher" what the average person has.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

You can say I'm just saying this because I don't have any golfing experience. I would be surprised if you didn't know yourself people with golfing experience that are saying the same thing. Some of them have posted in this thread.

I haven't seen any good players saying anything like that. Which speaks to a point I made earlier: I think that as you get to the higher levels of the sport you appreciate the athleticism required more and more.

[rossvanwyk]

I can't believe this thread is still so active. Golf is so obviously a sport it seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.

[ejimsmith]

no, its not a sport.

[burtonda]

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

I can't believe this thread is still so active. Golf is so obviously a sport it seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.

Completely agree.  This thread is pointless semantics.

Each sport requires varying levels of conditioning, strength, agility, balance, flexibility, coordination, and focus, among others.  All require large amounts of practice to master.  Golf requires high levels of balance, flexibility, coordination, and focus.  At the elite levels I'm sure strength and conditioning play a larger role than they appear to.  Judging from the responses on here people think there are only 4 or 5 games in the world worthy of being called a sport.  That's just silly.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by iacas

I haven't seen any good players saying anything like that. Which speaks to a point I made earlier: I think that as you get to the higher levels of the sport you appreciate the athleticism required more and more.

The athleticism necessary to play at the highest levels is ridiculous. All anyone would need to do is play with a good touring pro to realize that. I am a pretty good golfer and I definitely consider myself an athlete. I played baseball at the top college level and several other sports with great success in high school. Golf, even at the level I play takes an athletic movement to perform. The guys I compete against are athletes. This debate is absurd, if you cannot see that golf is very much a sport played by athletes then you either don't play enough, don't play well enough, or both.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

The athleticism necessary to play at the highest levels is ridiculous. All anyone would need to do is play with a good touring pro to realize that. I am a pretty good golfer and I definitely consider myself an athlete. I played baseball at the top college level and several other sports with great success in high school. Golf, even at the level I play takes an athletic movement to perform. The guys I compete against are athletes. This debate is absurd, if you cannot see that golf is very much a sport played by athletes then you either don't play enough, don't play well enough, or both.

For sure, those are the only three possibilities.

http://golf.procon.org/

[MbolicGolf]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Are you sure about this one?  I believe you about the Steelers and the Penguins, but the Pirates?  Don't sell yourself short.

You don't have to reply, I'll do it for you ... "At least they're not the Padres."

Ouch.  Touche.

Remember the B &B; boys!!!

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by iacas

You need those things to hit that shot.

Technically, you are correct.  Again it comes down to how you define an athlete.  When I think of speed, quickness, and agility, I associate it with a persons ability to move and run, not stand stationary and swing an object.

I do agree golf is a sport, the only thing I am debating is the level of how 'athletic' golfers are.  By my definition of athletic, they are not . I do respect others opinion that think otherwise.

[sean_miller]

One thing for certain is that having something appear on TSN (or espn - whatever) does not make it a sport. Unless of course dog shows, new car reviews, liesurely riding from town to town on a motorcycle, and people sitting around a table playing cards are sports now. Still I'd rather watch any of those than MMA - every time I skim past it I see how it earned its nickname.