Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
MS256

Risk reward hole with no forced carry?

26 posts in this topic

My son and I argue about the best way to play this hole all the time.

It's 335 yards and quite a bit uphill for the first 250 yards. Most guys with respectable distance hit a driver to about where the last line is and hit a 3W to about where the first line is.

It's 33 yards from the tree on the left at the first line to OB on the right and it's 30 yards from the left side of the last line (where an OB stake is) to OB on the right, so you gain about 3 yards of width by laying back with the 3W.

With a 3W you are left with around a 100 to 115 yard blind shot to the green severely sloping away. I rarely see a birdie made from that side of the hill.

Basically no roll up the slope with a 3W but might get a little on top of the hill with a driver.

With a driver you have around a 60 to 70 yard shot with the green visible. Still not an "easy" shot with the green sloping away but many more birdies from there than back at 115 yards.

Either tee shot either requires a fade or a very high launch angle to not hit the two trees about 60 and 100 yards down the fairway.

BTW. I almost always hit a driver. Sometimes I pay a double bogey price, sometimes I have a good chance at birdie, and sometimes I hit a bad shot that ends up OK and about where a 3W would have been and can still make par.

What would you do?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

If I thought I could clear the trees, I would probably hit driver as well. Not too much safer here to go with 3W. If I didn't feel I could get 'round/over trees with driver, I might just hit a 3 hybrid and lay back a little further. Or, if playing the bag in my sig, 5W.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would use my driver.  I am pretty straight with it and I feel on a hole like that I would be in a good spot to hit the green in 2. I think it is the up hill that really must make this a killer if you do not get hold of the ball off the tee.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would use my driver.  I am pretty straight with it and I feel on a hole like that I would be in a good spot to hit the green in 2. I think it is the up hill that really must make this a killer if you do not get hold of the ball off the tee.


Until last year it was a fairly easy hole. I wouldn't say a birdie hole because of the slope of the green but not much problem making pars with it's share of birdies for longer hitters.

Then last year the OB stakes on the left were added because everybody was aiming for the loop in the cart path. There are tee boxes where the cart path loops. There is also a sign on the tee box telling players to not hit until the other tee box is clear. Adding those OB stakes completely changed the hole.

The enigma to me is why so many more birdies are made from 70 yards with a look at the green than from 115 yards with no look at the green. Any ball that rolls out on the green is not only downhill but breaking hard right. That creates a fairly small landing area on the front left part of the green that has a good success rate on getting close to the hole.

Balls that land short of the green don't bounce onto the green because of a little swale just in front of the green. Most people with the blind shot end up either in the swale short of the green or over the green.

Most of us like to think we are almost as accurate from 115 yards as we are from 70 yards but the results on that hole show that's simply not the case (at least for the people at our course).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Driver every time.  I see no benefit to hitting less club (no appreciably more risk hitting driver) and closer is always better for the approach shot.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Driver every time.  I see no benefit to hitting less club (no appreciably more risk hitting driver) and closer is always better for the approach shot.

I agree on that. Also the in course OB on the left could end by the time my ball stops. Not sure where that is at. Since OB is all the way down the right. I rather hit it as far as I can. If OB began down by the hole, I might consider laying back because it actually gives me an option of not having to worry about it. Since it forces my hand a bit, just grip and rip I say!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Then last year the OB stakes on the left were added because everybody was aiming for the loop in the cart path. There are tee boxes where the cart path loops. There is also a sign on the tee box telling players to not hit until the other tee box is clear. Adding those OB stakes completely changed the hole.

LOL, well I'm ****ed.

I was just scanning all of the previous posts to see if anybody had my answer, which (100% truth) was going to be: I'd pull driver and aim far enough left that I'd take all risk of the OB out of play ... basically at that loop in the cart path.  Easy hole. ;)

OK, since that is now out, and my choices are OB right and OB left, then it is 100% imperative that I find the fairway or something close to it.  So I'm going to hit 3 wood or hybrid or maybe even a 4 iron, to make sure I get off the tee in one shot.  A decent hybrid on flat ground would leave me with no more than a gap wedge coming in, so with a big upslope, its still not going to be more than, probably an 8 or 9 iron.  Should be able to get on or close from there and make a par.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

LOL, well I'm ****ed.

I was just scanning all of the previous posts to see if anybody had my answer, which (100% truth) was going to be:  I'd pull driver and aim far enough left that I'd take all risk of the OB out of play ... basically at that loop in the cart path.  Easy hole. ;)

OK, since that is now out, and my choices are OB right and OB left, then it is 100% imperative that I find the fairway or something close to it.  So I'm going to hit 3 wood or hybrid or maybe even a 4 iron, to make sure I get off the tee in one shot.  A decent hybrid on flat ground would leave me with no more than a gap wedge coming in, so with a big upslope, its still not going to be more than, probably an 8 or 9 iron.  Should be able to get on or close from there and make a par.

Me too.  In the fairway is paramount.  OB is stroke and distance.  I would be OB 30% of the time with only 30 yards to play with for my driver.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

We have a hole very similar to this where I play, it's a bit more uphill and probably a little wider with OB on the right about 1/2 the distance of the hole and trees to the left basically the same. There is a decent margin for error once you top the hill and it widens out. The main difference is there are bunkers guarding the front of the green on the hole I play. I rarely, if ever hit a drive short of the top of the hill and having a flat lie and being able to see the green is a much more beneficial position for me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I agree on that. Also the in course OB on the left could end by the time my ball stops. Not sure where that is at. Since OB is all the way down the right. I rather hit it as far as I can. If OB began down by the hole, I might consider laying back because it actually gives me an option of not having to worry about it. Since it forces my hand a bit, just grip and rip I say!!


There is an OB stake at the left end of the red line. The next OB stake down is at the right edge of the small dark patch and the last OB stake is just inside of the small pine trees left of the green.

So the really long hitters have a gradually widening landing area once past the red line. We only have a couple of guys that are long enough to take advantage of that consistently. You would probably be one of those.

My very best leaves me 35 yards to the green, and I can't count on my very best very often. I just aim at the OB stake on the left and hit a fade. If it doesn't fade I'm screwed.

P.S. The OB stake on the left side of the yellow line is left of the trees and there's a chance the trees can knock a ball down and save it from going OB. Still a very tough par if blocked by the trees left of the yellow line but at least a chance.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What am I missing-Blast a driver up the left side. If you miss the fairway so what? There's like one tree there and youre gonna be 50 yards from the green right?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

What am I missing-Blast a driver up the left side. If you miss the fairway so what? There's like one tree there and youre gonna be 50 yards from the green right?


As long as you aren't OB left which is the edge of the fairway. :-D

Probably easy for you but not so much of a sure thing for most of us.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree that closer is always better.  For instance, I would rather have a full shot into the green than a 1/2 or 1/4 shot.  Of course, this is just my opinion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


it would not matter to me I would hit those ****ing trees 70 or so yards out (get the chain saw)..........3h then 9i or pitching wedge.........3 putt  ppppffftttt

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is left OB?-Thats the golf course too. Is this one of those stupid internal OBs that shitty course layouts are forced to use to "protect" people?[quote name="MS256" url="/t/74567/risk-reward-hole-with-no-forced-carry#post_990289"] As long as you aren't OB left which [SIZE=14px] is [/SIZE] the edge of the fairway. :-D [/quote]
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I disagree that closer is always better.  For instance, I would rather have a full shot into the green than a 1/2 or 1/4 shot.  Of course, this is just my opinion.

It's off topic for this thread, but you're absolutely wrong about that. Perhaps not for your particular game… but if so, take 30 minutes and make yourself wrong. You're costing yourself shots by requiring a full shot.

Single strongest correlation to be found anywhere in golf: the closer a ball is to the hole before the stroke, the closer it will be after the stroke.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The green line on the left is the OB line.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The green line on the left is the OB line.

I'm with Phil. That's stupid.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • I used to play all the time as a single (not as much anymore). I never had problems like the ones you describe. I've had the occasional group not let me play through, and an occasional three-ball who didn't invite me to play with them, but nothing like this. I've found more issues when I'm walking. People assume you are going to be slow, or hit into you because they don't see a cart...stuff like that.  
    • My advice is play w what you are comfortable w and what you like the most. I almost didn't get my ap2 irons last year because I was scared into thinking it was more of a better players club. I hit them fine and love the way they fee and look and might end up getting a set of muscle back titleists next year when they release new ones. 
    • I have had somewhat similar issues with league people a time or two. Basically I walked in to the club house, they gave me a tee time that was after their league started, let me know I wouldn't be able to start until around 5 pm. I was fine with that as I just used the time to hit the range first which was by the first tee. I even gave a good buffer after the group before me teed off to just try to give myself extra room before I would catch up by finishing out the bucket of balls I had purchased. As I was getting ready to go over to the tee box which was right next to the range I see two carts pull up and people teed off. I thought I had screwed up by waiting and that another group had come in and gotten the tee time after me. No big deal, my fault I'll deal with it. I let them play up to the green before teeing off, I hit a good drive down the middle, drive up to it and proceed to sit in my cart for probably 10 minutes waiting for them to putt out. Hit the green on the next shot and putt out. As I finish putting the flag in I see they are still not off the next tee which is a par 3. Rinse and repeat the extra long wait on that hole. Then the third hole. Somehow I was actually playing pretty well even with the waiting so I wasn't bothered too much. After finishing up on the third hole and driving over to the tee on the fourth one of the guys in the group turns and tells me "we're in a league so it's going to be slow buddy". I responded that it was fine, I didn't mind. But the problem wasn't that they were in a league, it was that they were just slow players. There was at least two complete holes in front of the one they were on that were open, unfortunately it would have done me no good to jump ahead because then I would have just gotten stuck behind the rest of the league anyway. The wait got so long behind these people that I literally laid down on a couple of the tees and took some mini-naps. Needless to say, eventually it screwed up my game and my score tanked. Good thing the scored didn't count for anything. That's a bit strange that they guy caught up to you but somehow you ended up having to wait on him after that.... I can tell you right now if you let me through I'll typically be off the green before you even get ready to play your extra shot and you end up waiting very little time overall compared to how much time I'll have to wait on your group.  I never ask to play through and sometimes I'll even refuse the offer, especially since my single rounds don't count for handicap anymore. As for your last comment, well I'll just have to disagree there because I have just as much right to be on the course as any group out there. Please see the following comment: So yeah, a single has just as much standing on the course as everyone else. Never the right thing to do, though I admit to having the idea cross my mind a time or two I never actually do it.
    • drmevo, do you mind if I ask where you live (just a general idea)?  I live in northern Minnesota, and play all over the state and in Wisconsin, quite often as a single.  I have had no issues I can remember about either being allowed to play through, or asked if I want to join if it is 3 or less in the group.  I do walk often, using a push cart, or sometimes carrying if I am only playing 9.
    • http://www.gamegolf.com/player/billchao/round/1080660 Could have scored better, but couldn't buy a putt. Burned the edges of more than a few, didn't really get the greenside shots to tap-in distance either which didn't help. Ended up with 39 putts and 0% scrambling. Funny, at the time of the round, I thought I was hitting it pretty poorly since I didn't put any pars on the board until the back. I struggled some off the tee but how bad could I have possibly been hitting it with 7 GIR? Just want to add that the greens were slow and didn't break much, which threw me off all day. Not sure if it is due to all the rain recently or the greens just are slow here, but my partners did mention this course typically has slower greens compared to the rest of the county. Not a fan.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. CrappyGolfer
      CrappyGolfer
      (63 years old)
    2. Jacob Vance
      Jacob Vance
      (20 years old)
    3. jaytee31
      jaytee31
      (47 years old)
  • Blog Entries