Michelle Wie... Love Her or Hate her?

[mvmac]

Hope she continues to play well, she's good for golf, good for the LPGA.

[1badbadger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Love watching her play, really happy for her recent success, hope that she can continue as the LPGA needs all the help it can get, and unlike you, @1badbadger , I realize a few facts…

You do realize she was 14 years old at the time, right? Let's go back and take a look at the things you said when you were 14… I'm pretty sure you said some awfully stupid things then too. You were - and she was - a child.

Things that happened afterward were grandfathered in? Her first PGA Tour event was in 2004. She nearly made the cut and was the talk of the town. Sponsors often use their invitations on local players.

Do… you expect the caddies to stick around for a player who is in college and playing a partial schedule, or do you expect them to seek employment on a week-to-week basis?

Wie (or her parents/agents) fired a few (I almost said "a couple of" because it's really not that many) caddies, true, but she's only had nine in ten years of playing, which is about the average for a regular PGA Tour player who plays a full schedule, so…

She was also injured at the time, and was routinely seen wearing bandages and getting treatment on her wrists.

So… the decision of the USGA reflects poorly on Michelle Wie how?

BTW, she finished T13 and was tied for the low amateur in that event. So…

---

Don't let a few facts get in the way of your narrative…

I've been critical of the mistakes she's made, but I've chalked them up to the mistakes made by a girl who hadn't even graduated from high school yet.

Seriously, what has she really done in the last five years except win four times (including a major) and, you know, graduate from freaking Stanford? (The water hazard penalty, for which I was quite bothered, is barely in this window).

Thanks for the reply iacas.  I certainly don't mind an intelligent, civil debate with meaningful remarks...I appreciate that.  You made some valid points that I'll respond to:

Quote:

You do realize she was 14 years old at the time, right? Let's go back and take a look at the things you said when you were 14… I'm pretty sure you said some awfully stupid things then too. You were - and she was - a child.  I've been critical of the mistakes she's made, but I've chalked them up to the mistakes made by a girl who hadn't even graduated from high school yet.

A blogger named Spencer Hux summed it up really well shortly after she turned pro:

"I know she’s only 16. But professionals in any occupation don’t get away with ignorance in their respective fields. I know that Wie’s mishaps aren’t illegal, immoral, or even uncommon, but that doesn’t mean we must constantly justify her mistakes, whether she is “still developing” or not.  When Wie became a professional, she opened herself up to the same criticism that anyone in a major spotlight can expect, so I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her."

Yes, I understand that some of the things I mentioned happened before she turned pro, and she was just a kid (and I undoubtedly said some stupid things when I was that age, and still do!) but high profile people get scrutinized.

Quote:

Things that happened afterward were grandfathered in? Her first PGA Tour event was in 2004. She nearly made the cut and was the talk of the town. Sponsors often use their invitations on local players.

The comment about "things being grandfathered in" was for me...meaning after I became a non-fan, everything, including things that had already happened, turned me off...not just things moving from that point forward.  It was meant tongue in cheek.

Quote:

Wie (or her parents/agents) fired a few (I almost said "a couple of" because it's really not that many) caddies, true, but she's only had nine in ten years of playing, which is about the average for a regular PGA Tour player who plays a full schedule, so…

Yes, she's had her current caddie for a few years now, but she had gone through 9 or 10 by 2010, so it was really after about 5 years of playing professionally.

Quote:

She was also injured at the time, and was routinely seen wearing bandages and getting treatment on her wrists.

Then she shouldn't have been playing.

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So… the decision of the USGA reflects poorly on Michelle Wie how?

BTW, she finished T13 and was tied for the low amateur in that event. So…

I think it reflects poorly on her because she accepted it.  She should have attempted to qualify the same way everyone else has to.  If it was a regular tour event, that's one thing, but it was the U.S. Open...everybody has to qualify.

Quote:

Seriously, what has she really done in the last five years except win four times (including a major) and, you know, graduate from freaking Stanford?

You're absolutely right...she has done well the last 5 years and I give her a lot of credit for going to school and graduating while maintaining her career.  It's quite an accomplishment.  Prior to that, she hadn't performed anywhere near her potential yet she was one of the top money earners under 25 years old in sports and entertainment behind LeBron James, Reggie Bush and Maria Sharapova.

Having said this guys, I think she's good for the game, and any time a phenom reaches their potential it's good for the sport.  But just like some people get irritated when someone cuts them off in traffic, something about her rubs me the wrong way like Tiger does to some people.  Remember, this is just for entertainment value and meant to be thought prevoking, but doesn't have to be taken too seriously.  Thank you.

[Shorty]

Hate? Does anyone seriously hate other golfers? I hope not.

Really happy to see her win the U.S. Open and hoping the way is now clear for her to realise her huge potential.

Was not a fan of her behaviour in the club grounding incident - far from it. That was as close to blatant lying (and by extension cheating) as you can get.

Didn't like the Solheim Cup antics, but am becoming a big fan. She seems to be made of tougher stuff than many thought.

The LPGA seems to need her to do well.

Now that her mother seems to be somewhat out of the picture she can only improve.

The monkey is off her back and she may well continue to play amazing golf for a while. Hope so.

[jamo]

FWIW, I like Michelle Wie. She's interesting. She's one of the few people that could get me to watch women's golf on occasion. I don't "love" her or "hate" her, or even come particularly close to either of those extremes. [quote name="1badbadger" url="/t/75494/michelle-wie-love-her-or-hate-her/0_30#post_1012898"] A blogger named Spencer Hux summed it up really well shortly after she turned pro: "I know she’s only 16. But professionals in any occupation don’t get away with ignorance in their respective fields. I know that Wie’s mishaps aren’t illegal, immoral, or even uncommon, but that doesn’t mean we must constantly justify her mistakes, whether she is “still developing” or not.  When Wie became a professional, she opened herself up to the same criticism that anyone in a major spotlight can expect, so I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her." [/quote] That seems like an absurdly callous justification for being an ***hole to a 14-year-old.

[mvmac]

Then she shouldn't have been playing.

It's pretty common for players to play with injuries every week, some have to withdraw.

[PuttsLefty]

She's adorable and finally matured into a professional.  I really enjoy watching her play.

+2

[RJH999]

I give absolutely NO SHITS about womens golf, but Michelles a beast. I'd party with her

[MS256]

There's a lot of ground between love and hate and I would say she falls just about exactly in the middle for me (so no vote). Wish I was a bigger fan because I basically like rooting for winners and I still think she has huge potential. How she acted as a teenager means nothing to me. I'm sure most adults probably thought I was a twerp when I was a teenager.

[1badbadger]

I give absolutely NO SHITS about womens golf, but Michelles a beast. I'd party with her

That might be my favorite reply so far!

[mchepp]

I wrote an article about her in my recent Thrash Talk article. I am sure it will be up soon. I think her story is one the media loves to cover. Tons of promise and talent, then gets lost, makes mistakes, and then makes an inspiring comeback to win and be a leader in her sport. I think we all like this kind of story. She is not perfect but nobody is.

As sport fans we typically have short memories and she now has the chance to make everyone forget ignore about her past.

Was not a fan of her behaviour in the club grounding incident - far from it. That was as close to blatant lying (and by extension cheating) as you can get.

I had forgotten this incident, I remember listen to her whining and making herself look terrible.

[iacas]

http://thesandtrap.com/t/75517/michelle-wie-back-from-golfing-exile#post_1013164

A blogger named Spencer Hux summed it up really well shortly after she turned pro:

"I know she’s only 16. But professionals in any occupation don’t get away with ignorance in their respective fields. I know that Wie’s mishaps aren’t illegal, immoral, or even uncommon, but that doesn’t mean we must constantly justify her mistakes, whether she is “still developing” or not.  When Wie became a professional, she opened herself up to the same criticism that anyone in a major spotlight can expect, so I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her."

Not worthy of a response. People being held to different standards when they're 14 than when they're 24, 34, and even 44 makes perfect sense to me.

Yes, I understand that some of the things I mentioned happened before she turned pro, and she was just a kid (and I undoubtedly said some stupid things when I was that age, and still do!) but high profile people get scrutinized.

Scrutiny is one thing. Lack of understanding and forgiveness is another. Move on. She was 14. You did stupid things - but because you're not otherworldly talented, nobody's bringing them up these days.

The comment about "things being grandfathered in" was for me...meaning after I became a non-fan, everything, including things that had already happened, turned me off...not just things moving from that point forward.  It was meant tongue in cheek.

You cited something that caused you to be "not a fan" and then cited things that occurred AFTER as being "grandfathered in." They happened after, not "things that had already happened." Your timeline is off.

Yes, she's had her current caddie for a few years now, but she had gone through 9 or 10 by 2010, so it was really after about 5 years of playing professionally.

During which time she was not a full-time member of the LPGA Tour, was attending high school and college , and so on. Also, the average caddie on the PGA Tour goes through players (or vice versa) about that quickly. Again, don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative or anything…

And I'll say this again just to be clear: you get to have your own opinion. Great. Good for you. But I get to point out that it's based on a foundation of incorrect facts and poor reasoning.

Then she shouldn't have been playing.

People play hurt on the PGA Tour all the time. Tiger, Sergio, Phil, Rory… Phil had an injured wrist at Oakmont, had it all taped up and everything, and still played the 2007 U.S. Open.

Again, you are trying to shape the facts to fit your opinion, not letting the facts inform your opinion.

I think it reflects poorly on her because she accepted it. She should have attempted to qualify the same way everyone else has to. If it was a regular tour event, that's one thing, but it was the U.S. Open...everybody has to qualify.

Everybody does not have to qualify, no. The USGA gives out exemptions from time to time. She backed up their choice to do so by finishing low amateur. At 14 years of age. Plus… you seem to be keen to leave out the fact that she'd won the U.S. Women's Amateur PubLinks in 2003.

You're absolutely right...she has done well the last 5 years and I give her a lot of credit for going to school and graduating while maintaining her career.  It's quite an accomplishment.  Prior to that, she hadn't performed anywhere near her potential yet she was one of the top money earners under 25 years old in sports and entertainment behind LeBron James, Reggie Bush and Maria Sharapova.

Prior to that… she was in freaking high school.

And for all you know, Sony is completely happy with what they paid her. Nike could be too. She was huge in the Asian regions (for obvious reasons) even if she wasn't seen as a star here.

[Crim]

The poll speaks.

Wie is loved.

<3

[misty_mountainhop]

Personally, her use of the (made up) word "grinded" does it for me. Really?? Hate!

Seriously though, she's just a golfer. I certainly don't love her but then again, hate is far too strong a word. I'd rather not have the awful celebrity circus surrounding her, much of it before she'd done anything of substance, but accept she probably had a minimal input to that. If she carries on playing excellent golf and winning tournaments, so much the better and good luck to her.

[CarlSpackler]

I don't know if I would go so far to say I Love Her, but I fail to see how anyone could hate her unless they have firsthand personal experience. I just don't get how people can "love" or "hate" people they don't know personally. I voted Love Her, but only because I don't hate anyone.

...unless they cut me off in traffic of course.

[RonTheSavage]

Love[quote name="boogielicious" url="/t/75494/michelle-wie-love-her-or-hate-her#post_1012755"]She's adorable and finally matured into a professional.  I really enjoy watching her play.   [/quote] +3 Nothing more I could add this is perfect

[legitimatebeef]

I am squarely in the middle. I can relate to a lot of the OP. She is a huge pre-Madonna. Physically I have the hots for her. But her personality seems lousy and she casts such a strong spell over the entire coverage it makes her success kind of grating to me. I'm kind of like, who cares, she has already received as much adulation as a female golfer could hope for. Anything she does is cast in a divine light, like she is preordained to do all these things, finally fulfilling her destiny, blah blah blah. Meanwhile her record reflects a middling-to-top level LPGA pro, albeit one who is trending upwards. I understand the appeal to some extent. When she makes a controlled swing with an iron or fairway wood, it looks amazing, on another level even. But I do not like her driver swing and let's face it, her putting shtick is most likely a mental crutch that is going to stop working sooner or later. It looks tiring, even for her. How you gonna practice like that, day in and day out. It's not sustainable, I am guessing.

[Lihu]

I am squarely in the middle. I can relate to a lot of the OP. She is a huge pre-Madonna. Physically I have the hots for her. But her personality seems lousy and she casts such a strong spell over the entire coverage it makes her success kind of grating to me. I'm kind of like, who cares, she has already received as much adulation as a female golfer could hope for. Anything she does is cast in a divine light, like she is preordained to do all these things, finally fulfilling her destiny, blah blah blah. Meanwhile her record reflects a middling-to-top level LPGA pro, albeit one who is trending upwards. I understand the appeal to some extent. When she makes a controlled swing with an iron or fairway wood, it looks amazing, on another level even. But I do not like her driver swing and let's face it, her putting shtick is most likely a mental crutch that is going to stop working sooner or later. It looks tiring, even for her. How you gonna practice like that, day in and day out. It's not sustainable, I am guessing.

I was kind of wondering how many people are in the "middle" as the poll is binary.

[1badbadger]

Quote:

Everybody does not have to qualify, no. The USGA gives out exemptions from time to time.

You're right...not sure what I was thinking when I said that.  My bad.