Chamblee and Nobilo get technical about Tiger's swing

[Mulligan Jeff]

Skydog you hit on a very good point that Tiger was born with one of the greatest swings in all of golf. He understands swing mechanics at such a high level that he could very well be self-coached.

[skydog]

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/76408/chamblee-and-nobilo-get-technical-about-tigers-swing#post_1036413"]   Good thread for you…  [CONTENTEMBED=/t/70065/everyone-is-a-feel-player layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED] So do I. and Tiger's swing looks very similar to how it did last year.   So according to you: [LIST] [*] you know golf swings [*] you think Adam Scott and Rory McIlroy have similar swings [/LIST] Is that about right? [/QUOTE] Yes, Tiger's swing now looks a lot like it did in 2013 (I wasn't trying to imply otherwise) and that's a very bad thing. Again, he won last year in spite of his swing and Foley's changes not because of them. His natural talent and short game made up for a lot of ball striking flaws last year (he was still double missing it a lot last year). All top pro swings share a lot of similarities, but to me, Rory and Adam's swings are close cousins (more so than most pros), they are the two best swings in the game today, and to my merely mortal golf eye, their rotation, free-ness and power from the ground up remind me a lot of Tiger's original swing.

[mvmac]

Again, he won last year in spite of his swing and Foley's changes not because of them.

How do you know that? It's not like Tiger was playing great golf when he and Haney parted way. He was much more "lost" with his swing back then than he is now.

His natural talent and short game made up for a lot of ball striking flaws last year (he was still double missing it a lot last year).

You can't win 5 tournaments just relying on the short game and natural talent, you have to strike it well, which Tiger did last year.

[iacas]

Again, he won last year in spite of his swing and Foley's changes not because of them. His natural talent and short game made up for a lot of ball striking flaws last year (he was still double missing it a lot last year).

This is the problem with relying on your perception.

Tiger gained 1.64 strokes just with his approach shots . He lead that category by more than half a shot. That lead over second place is larger than the 0.424 strokes gained putting.

He's not top five in any of the short game or putting (or short game + putting) categories (except "full swing" strokes gained - he gained 0.07 strokes per round driving, which means he was still better than average off the tee).

2.02, btw, minus 1.71 = 0.31, which implies that he lost strokes to the field with his short game.

[mvmac]

@iacas has said the same thing to me several times before. I saw something very similar when I was filming Tiger at the US Open at Olympic.

[Zeph]

Which is something we've seen before. He's looked good on the range, he's said himself he plays great at his own course and hits good shots on the range, but is unable to bring it to the course. As far as I can remember, this issue solved itself after he got more practice and tournament reps in. It seems more like a mental change when he enters the course than swing mechanics.

I don't know about this year, maybe the Notah Bengay Challenge is a bit more low-key even where he can play well, but if his health is good, I'm interested in seeing what he can bring to the table next year. This year has been ruined by injuries.

[iacas]

@iacas has said the same thing to me several times before. I saw something very similar when I was filming Tiger at the US Open at Olympic.

Which is something we've seen before. He's looked good on the range, he's said himself he plays great at his own course and hits good shots on the range, but is unable to bring it to the course. As far as I can remember, this issue solved itself after he got more practice and tournament reps in. It seems more like a mental change when he enters the course than swing mechanics.

I don't know about this year, maybe the Notah Bengay Challenge is a bit more low-key even where he can play well, but if his health is good, I'm interested in seeing what he can bring to the table next year. This year has been ruined by injuries.

I don't think the Notah tournament will matter at all. He may not even play. Notah would understand.

I'll just put this out there for discussion: I think that, given Tiger's inability to take the range play to the course, his "mental game" has been vastly overstated . It should not be this hard for someone with such a great mental game to carry it over to the course. To "will himself" to making the same swings on the course as on the range.

[atb5079]

And see that post by Mayo is why I really question the injury excuse. I dont think Tiger is 100%, but if he is hitting it so pure on the range, why is that not transferring to the course? Injuries dont show through more on the course than the range. He definitely isnt feeling 100%, but Tiger just is not playing good golf and his driver is horrendous for him; not because of back issues IMO.

[Zeph]

And see that post by Mayo is why I really question the injury excuse. I dont think Tiger is 100%, but if he is hitting it so pure on the range, why is that not transferring to the course? Injuries dont show through more on the course than the range. He definitely isnt feeling 100%, but Tiger just is not playing good golf and his driver is horrendous for him; not because of back issues IMO.

The range vs tournament difference is probably more a mental thing, but he did feel it on the range too. That's early in the day though, and it's bound to be more sore during the tournament after the warmup. He's probably more relaxed on the range and able to focus on the swings.

Woods went home and had treatment, keeping everyone in suspense until arriving on Wednesday to play nine holes and walk the remainder of Valhalla's 18 to reacquaint himself with the course where he won the 2000 PGA in a playoff over Bob May. But the first round took its toll on Woods, and he knew when he hit balls on the range that Friday would be a long day.

"It was sore," Woods said. "... It was telling me on the range probably wasn't a good idea, but I'm not exactly a non-stubborn person."

[AmazingWhacker]

I saw that on the golf channel. I thought for a minute they were going to step out to the parking lot, lol. I thought the main argument nobilo and Begay were making was that tiger is recovering from injury so you cant over analyze the current swing. Chambee was insisting that because tiger said he was healthy at start of Bridgestone that he must've been. I thought he was being kind of ridiculous about that. It's not hard to understand why tiger may have thought, said and hoped he was 100% on Thursday at the Bridgestone but obviously he wasn't.

[newtogolf]

I don't think the Notah tournament will matter at all. He may not even play. Notah would understand.

I'll just put this out there for discussion: I think that, given Tiger's inability to take the range play to the course, his "mental game" has been vastly overstated. It should not be this hard for someone with such a great mental game to carry it over to the course. To "will himself" to making the same swings on the course as on the range.

Tiger claimed in his post Round 2 press conference to have tweaked his back during warm ups on the range and when he teed off yesterday it felt as it did after he fell backward into sand trap last week.  I don't know how strong his mental game is, but I do know that when you have an injury you subconsciously change things to protect the injury.  On a flat lie Tiger may not fear injury but when he gets into more awkward positions he may not have enough "trust" that he's healed to make his normal swing.

During the conference he also said the injury to his back prevented him from being able to take a full backswing which ruined his normal tempo and forced him to try to make adjustments with his small muscles (hands, arms) to get the club face back in the right position at impact.

[Golfingdad]

I'll just put this out there for discussion: I think that, given Tiger's inability to take the range play to the course, his "mental game" has been vastly overstated. It should not be this hard for someone with such a great mental game to carry it over to the course. To "will himself" to making the same swings on the course as on the range.

My first thought since I read Mike's post.  This is unfathomable for me.  We're talking about Tiger Woods, arguably the greatest golfer in the history of the sport.  We're not talking about some journeyman with loads of talent but with, perhaps, a screw loose.  A Nuke Laloosh type with a "million dollar arm and a 5 cent head."  Tiger was always the guy with a million dollar swing and a million dollar head.  He should not be having a problem like this.  Wow.

[mvmac]

Tiger's launch angle numbers, not sure if this is for the year or just for the PGA

https://twitter.com/GolfDigestMag/status/498126100728270849/photo/1

[jamo]

Tiger's launch angle numbers, not sure if this is for the year or just for the PGA

Sean O'Hair isn't in the field at the PGA, so it's probably for the year.

[Zeph]

Are there any good driver swings from this year that has a proper angle? There are so many videos with different angles thrown around.

[ChrisP]

The question I would like to know is why is his body breaking down so much in a 5-year span? And I don't want to hear "There's a lot of golfers who deal with many injuries." A lot of those same golfers get injuries in the same area or have re-occuring injuries. Tiger's injuries are happening all over his body, from the neck to the elbow to the lower back to the hip (or wherever the SI Joint is) to the knee to the calf to the ankle, etc. This is bizarre. You just know if he gets this back problem figured out by February there's another injury just waiting to happen sometime next year. All of this is happening in such a short time frame.

We all have our theories...and I've heard them all....but what is the real reason? Is it too much body building? Is it the torque on the body with the swing? Is it the fact he played so much since the age of 3 and his body is just tired? Is it...dare I say...ped's? Is it a poor fitness schedule? Is it old age? Is it a combo of several of those things. Something is causing different parts of this body to break down in such a short time span and I just wonder what it is.

[iacas]

Tiger claimed in his post Round 2 press conference to have tweaked his back during warm ups on the range and when he teed off yesterday it felt as it did after he fell backward into sand trap last week.  I don't know how strong his mental game is, but I do know that when you have an injury you subconsciously change things to protect the injury.  On a flat lie Tiger may not fear injury but when he gets into more awkward positions he may not have enough "trust" that he's healed to make his normal swing.

I'm talking about last year, and the year before too. He's been striping it by all accounts on the range for three years now, and yet we've got moderate play in the majors and so on to show for it.

Originally Posted by ChrisP

The question I would like to know is why is his body breaking down so much in a 5-year span?

The question I have for you is "have you paid attention to the other years in which he's had surgeries on his knees, etc.?" Also, he wasn't nearly 39 five years ago.

You just know if he gets this back problem figured out by February there's another injury just waiting to happen sometime next year.

I'll take that action.

[RandallT]

What did they do with Brandel tonight? He's jovial with and complementary of Nobilo and Begay. I wanted more fireworks!