Going forward I am starting a shame file. That's me personally.

[Moxie Dawn]

Reading this and it dawned on me:  We are walking a fine line when we are holding up conversational writing to the same standard of grammar rules as we do regular print writing.  These message boards are sometimes a lot closer to being like texting than they are essays (not counting @FarawayFairways, of course. )

And when you're having back and forth conversations, especially ones that might involve heated discussion or arguing, then it's not only a good idea, but it's almost paramount to throw in extra words if they can help convey tone or mood.

Sometimes phrases like "to be honest" help paint the picture of the persons mood.  Maybe it isn't the best choice of words, but it is one that, I think, does sometimes help.

English major, reporting to the thread. The above quote reminds me of something my favorite professor said once. "If you say, 'I ain't got no,' it's OK. If you write it, it's wrong." The idea was to point out that there is a difference between spoken language and written language, and further, to point out that we all use different languages inside the English language when speaking. There are the ways we communicate verbally at work, at home, with our best buddy, in front of the preacher, etc. Those "languages" may vary widely. Traditionally, written communication has always been expected to be more rigid in terms of rules and structure, but in this modern age of social media our communication almost always feels more like a casual conversation (verbal) rather than written correspondence. Holding message board discussions to a formal style of writing would be horrible.

Kudos to those referencing Talladega Nights. Second only to Highlander in the vote for Best Movie Ever Made.

[GolfLug]

We aren't worried about people who have trouble expressing themselves, are not native English speakers or those who are uneducated.

The issue is with people who use meaningless vogue terms like "going forward" (who is going backwards?) and clutter up their speech with phrases and words that shouldn't be there.

I feel for you as far phrases that are redundant, misplaced, misdirected, overly formalized, 'vogue', etc., but you did not mention anything about folks who do not proof read entire sentences before hitting 'submit'. But yes, things can get outta hand and sensitivities can get greatly offended. Here's to simple, clean and 'straight forward' posting.

[jamo]

Kudos to those referencing Talladega Nights. Second only to Highlander in the vote for Best Movie Ever Made.

I saw that Highlander movie. It was shit.

[Moxie Dawn]

Oh, now I remember why Zip told me to visit this thread. I have bitched about the same stuff in my old blog.

http://hellosillykat.blogspot.com/2009/12/i-got-your-paradigm-shift-right-here.html

[Shorty]

but you did not mention anything about folks who do not proof read entire sentences before hitting 'submit'.

Again - not an issue. I've done it a thousand times.

And that's where some people get overly concerned

I don't care about typos, I don't care about autocorrect or the hassles when typing on phones or iPads.

In this context, not really even worried about grammar.

Not concerned about lack of education or lack of confidence.

I don't want to stifle debate or upset people.

It's about horrible and meaningless terms and words that are being used to fluff up business reports, CVs and speeches which, when picked up and overused elicit a groan and make people cringe. And they have invaded everyday conversation.

Going forward.......in terms of........to be quite honest with you........skill set.........blue sky thinking.........etc.

Another is "it is what it is", meaning you are too lazy to say or write what "it" is, which may well be quite nuanced.

Every once in a while these things are fine, but some are taking on the ubiquity of "like" and "you know", where people don't even know they're saying it.

The "personally" one is just SO redundant in the majority of cases and I seem to read it in every thread.

[Moxie Dawn]

I have to admit, I love "it is what it is."

[Shorty]

I have to admit, I love "it is what it is."

You're not blogging enough, Moxie. Is that how you explain it? Surely there's more to it! Don't use that cop out line!

[dsc123]

I've had it! This epidemic has to stop.

This is going to be my shame file.

If you don't want to be in it, don't write things like this:

Personally, I have no desire to buy anything from TM,

If it's what YOU think, or what YOU are going to do, the "PERSONALLY" bit is redundant, so STOP IT!!!!!!! Please!!!!

Use "personally" only if people would otherwise think that someone else did it or thought it.

Eg. The manager of the plumbing company said that he PERSONALLY repaired the pipes, whereas you'd otherwise assume it would be an employee.

Anytime I see "Going forward" it's getting a mention too. These idiotic BS "business language" atrocities have no place in normal conversation. Use that term in a meeting, let alone in a frickin' golf forum and you've lost the respect of every semi-literate person around. There is nothing wrong with "from now on" or "in the future".

Going forward, I, personally, am compiling a list. I won't name names.

Shame me if you like for being a jerk or for any other reason, but FFS, it's out of control.

I'm going to attempt to shame you and everyone else who agrees with you.

The purpose of language is to convey thoughts.  If you understand what the person meant, they succeeded.  End of story.

People use idioms to convey messages.  If the reader understands the idiom, even if grammatically incorrect, they succeeded in communicating their thought.  Saying "it is what it is" is shorter than saying " This circumstance is simply a fact and must be accepted or dealt with as it exists."  Valuing brevity as we do, idioms are useful, if not essential.

People write variations of "I personally" because they want to reader to understand, as @Golfingdad said, that they are not applying that opinion to anyone else.  Every one of you understands that, so what's the problem?  Writing does not always successfully convey tone and is easily susceptible to misunderstandings.  What's wrong with adding something which, though perhaps redundant, helps to convey your thought more accurately.

Sure, you could achieve the same thing by writing clearer but that may not be enough.  What good is being correct if its misunderstood?  Maybe shorty will understand correctly but the idiot trying to convince the writer that he's going to be a Tour Pro because he's 13 years old and can hit the ball 375 yards once a week might not be as wise (or as careful) as shorty and misinterpret the sentence.  Then we spend 29 posts explaining that it wasn't meant to be offensive and generally flaming each other, all to save Shorty & Co. the trouble of reading a second word where one could have sufficed.

Hell, Shorty says "These idiotic BS "business language" atrocities have no place in normal conversation" but "BS" is short for bull shit, which is animal waste.  Words are not literally things that come out of a bull after it eats--its an expression that we all understand.  The only difference between "bullshit" and "it is what it is" is that Shorty likes it.   like it.

And yes, the sentence, "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" may be grammatically correct, but it doesn't make any f'ing sense and not a single person here would understand it if they hadn't previously looked it up.  Sure, you can write correctly and get all haughty and feel good about yourself, but at the end of the day , you're just stroking your own ego.

Its sort of a jerk thread so I don't think I have to sugar coat it. But I say this with love, see:

To be honest, I personally believe, that at the end of the day, it is what it is; therefore, I going forward I will continue to utilize idioms that accurately convey my thoughts and I literally couldn't care less what the rest of you of you think about that.

P.S.  I'll be sure to follow up with a status later.

[Shorty]

I'm going to attempt to shame you and everyone else who agrees with you.

The purpose of language is to convey thoughts.  I

P.S.  I'll be sure to follow up with a status later.

People write variations of "I personally" because they want to reader to understand, as @Golfingdad said, that they are not applying that opinion to anyone else.  Every one of you understands that, so what's the problem?

Seems you didn't even try to understand what I am writing, nor did you read my explanations.

It has nothing to do with correctness or grammar. Where have I even hinted at that?

It is not about idiom, the need for brevity or formality v informality.

Adding sludge to sentences does the opposite of conveying thoughts. It stops the process.

Gawd-----how many times to I have to say that "personally" is fine with regard to opinions?  But you ignore that and the knee jerks.

When you say "I personally own a Volkswagen", you could simply say "I own a Volkswagen".

I personally am about to have breakfast.  Does that not seem a silly thing to say? Do you think I might be talking about the neighbour's friend?

[dsc123]

Seems you didn't even try to understand what I am writing, nor did you read my explanations.

It has nothing to do with correctness or grammar. Where have I even hinted at that?

It is not about idiom, the need for brevity or formality v informality.

Adding sludge to sentences does the opposite of conveying thoughts. It stops the process.

What you call "sludge," helps convey the thought.  For example, the use of "I personally" helps convey the point that the writer is not criticising whoever the statement is directed to. It is redundant, but it serves a purpose.  The purpose might not be to accurately communicate to you specifically, and it might not be useful for that purpose, but it serves a different purpose.  And that was my point.

Gawd-----how many times to I have to say that "personally" is fine with regard to opinions?  But you ignore that and the knee jerks.

When you say "I personally own a Volkswagen", you could simply say "I own a Volkswagen".

I personally am about to have breakfast.  Does that not seem a silly thing to say? Do you think I might be talking about the neighbour's friend?

And edit to "follow up" on your edit:

I really don't think we're talking about different things.  Here, I'll use your example.

Personally, I have no desire to buy anything from TM ,

In the context of a discussion about TM products, adding "Personally" serves the purpose of softening the statement, making clear to othersthat the writer is not judging them for having a different desire.  Its redundant and it serves no purpose when directed at you, shorty, because you are intelligent and read carefully and thoughtfully.  But when discussing a topic on a message board, with people who read something quickly and fire off responses without a lot of thought, it can be useful.

[Shorty]

What you call "sludge," helps convey the thought.  For example, the use of "I personally" helps convey the point that the writer is not criticising whoever the statement is directed to. It is redundant, but it serves a purpose.  The purpose might not be to accurately communicate to you specifically, and it might not be useful for that purpose, but it serves a different purpose.  And that was my point.

Yes.

And my point is that I don't have an issue in that sense.

My issue is that when I read.

"Personally, I'm only buying Cleveland wedges going forward", I'd prefer to read "I'm buying Cleveland wedges from now on".

I do understand what you are saying. I'm about clarity, not obfuscation.

[Moxie Dawn]

You're not blogging enough, Moxie. Is that how you explain it? Surely there's more to it! Don't use that cop out line!

Not sure why I like "it is what it is." It seems to convey the idea that there is nothing more to say about a given topic, the situation can't be changed, there is no choice in course of action, we must accept. I could say all those things about whatever it is we're discussing, or I can just say, "it is what it is," and you understand.

[GolfLug]

I 'personally' have no issues with overuse of most of the mentioned buzz word, phrases, etc., in this thread that are annoying to folks, mainly (another overused word) because I almost always (damn, I just can't stop!!) notice that a deliberate attempt at a raised level of civility (also admittedly passive-aggressiveness) accompanies the use, or even an attempt to sound more intelligent (articulate?). While annoying at an immediate level I think these are good things. We can always use more of either. Think less war.

[GolfLug]

Not sure why I like "it is what it is." It seems to convey the idea that there is nothing more to say about a given topic, the situation can't be changed, there is no choice in course of action, we must accept.

Yes, but lot of time people will use it to convey that as a fact to get out of doing more about the said situation, where more could actually be done but they simply don't want to. My boss does it all the time (literally, not figuratively). Terribly annoying and even a disservice to the person on the receiving end.

[GolfLug]

Yes, but lot of time people will use it to convey that as a fact to get out of doing more about the said situation, where more could actually be done but they simply don't want to. My boss does it all the time (literally, not figuratively). Terribly annoying and even a disservice to the person on the receiving end.

BTW, 'it is what it is' is in a league of it's own and subject to a diff. criteria than all the other annoying phrases mentioned on this thread.

[Golfingdad]

I'm going to attempt to shame you and everyone else who agrees with you.

The purpose of language is to convey thoughts.  If you understand what the person meant, they succeeded.  End of story.

People use idioms to convey messages.  If the reader understands the idiom, even if grammatically incorrect, they succeeded in communicating their thought.  Saying "it is what it is" is shorter than saying "This circumstance is simply a fact and must be accepted or dealt with as it exists."  Valuing brevity as we do, idioms are useful, if not essential.

People write variations of "I personally" because they want to reader to understand, as @Golfingdad said, that they are not applying that opinion to anyone else.  Every one of you understands that, so what's the problem?  Writing does not always successfully convey tone and is easily susceptible to misunderstandings.  What's wrong with adding something which, though perhaps redundant, helps to convey your thought more accurately.

The last paragraph perfectly explains the reason I sometimes use that phrase.

The rest of your post perfectly explains why things like "I could care less" don't bother me in the least.  It's become such a cliche that people don't consider the literal meaning of the words when they say or write it.  We can chuckle at their "stupidity" if we want, but nobody doesn't know what they meant.

To be honest, I personally believe, that at the end of the day, it is what it is; therefore, I going forward I will continue to utilize idioms that accurately convey my thoughts and I literally couldn't care less what the rest of you of you think about that.

LMAO ... I almost injured myself reading this sentence.

---

I don agree with @Shorty though on a lot of the language used jsut as "fluff."  If you're writing something that helps your point, great, but if you're just barfing out catch phrases and buzz words, that can be pretty annoying.

[dsc123]

Fwiw, meaningless buzzwords drive me crazy, too.

[Golfingdad]

I don agree with @Shorty

LOL, whoops ... I left you guys hanging there, huh?  "Does he or doesn't he?!?!"

That was supposed to be a "do."  I DO agree with Shorty!!