Tiger Fires Sean Foley

[Yukari]

It's not like team sports, is it? Phil Jackson has a bazillion rings - so he commands respect. It's not like there's a teacher with 25 majors that Woods feels deferential to. I'm not saying that 25 majors makes one a good teacher, but the psychological impact.

With that logic, shouldn't Butch Harmon and Hank Haney deserve respect?

[nevets88]

With that logic, shouldn't Butch Harmon and Hank Haney deserve respect?

I meant the teacher himself winning 25 majors, not students.

[Mulligan Jeff]

Tiger should be self taught heck he would pick and choose what his swing coaches gave him direction on anyway; plus he knows more about the swing than most on tour.

[mvmac]

Tiger should be self taught heck he would pick and choose what his swing coaches gave him direction on anyway; plus he knows more about the swing than most on tour.

That's not really saying much though

Those guys know how the swing feels to them and with their instructors they're Stupid Monkeys . Quick example, until recently the vast majority of them thought the path was the main contributor to start line.

[Yukari]

I meant the teacher himself winning 25 majors, not students.

Phil Jackson did NOT win any championship.  He was merely the coach as was Butch and Hank.

I am merely pointing out that your logic is flawed.  You are comparing apples to oranges.

[cfritchie]

That's not really saying much though

Those guys know how the swing feels to them and with their instructors they're Stupid Monkeys. Quick example, until recently the vast majority of them thought the path was the main contributor to start line.

Until recently it was taught that path was the start line...

[Mr. Desmond]

Lovely discussion, redux from when Tiger left Butch, and then when Hank abandoned him...

Let's just not devolve into this:

I just wanted an excuse to use this pic...lol

[nevets88]

Phil Jackson did NOT win any championship.  He was merely the coach as was Butch and Hank.

I am merely pointing out that your logic is flawed.  You are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not saying Haney & Harmon don't command respect. Of course they do. Jackson was there at the championship games during "the back nine" - those close games with 2 minutes on the clock, experiencing the pressure with the rest of the team. There aren't any big name teachers that people are guessing might be Woods's future teacher that have experienced that situation that many times.

Now I'm not saying that's a requirement to be a good teacher. But Woods seems to be inferring he'll listen to a teacher more if he has that. But there's no one out there like that unless Nicklaus or Palmer starts teaching.

What I'm basically saying is T Woods is asking for the impossible if he wants his teacher to have lots of majors back nine contention experiences.

Lovely discussion, redux from when Tiger left Butch, and then when Hank abandoned him...

Let's just not devolve into this:

I just wanted an excuse to use this pic...lol

That is one ugly m*&f;*&ing; picture.

[Mr. Desmond]

That is one ugly m*&f;*&ing; picture.

It was inspired by Stevie taking a camera from a photographer...

[mvmac]

Until recently it was taught that path was the start line...

Maybe by most instructors but the correct information has been out there for a while now.

[bste]

Maybe by most instructors but the correct information has been out there for a while now.

This is the only place I've seen it, and I know it's been here for a while, years .

Thank you TST.

[turtleback]

Phil Jackson did NOT win any championship.  He was merely the coach as was Butch and Hank.

I am merely pointing out that your logic is flawed.  You are comparing apples to oranges.

Actually Phil won 2 championships as a player:  with the 1970 and 1973 Knicks.

And in a team sport it is clearly appropriate to say the coach won a championship.  In team sports the coach frequently (usually?) has more effect on the team's success/failure than any single player on the team.

[Mr. Desmond]

Actually Phil won 2 championships as a player:  with the 1970 and 1973 Knicks.

And in a team sport it is clearly appropriate to say the coach won a championship.  In team sports the coach frequently (usually?) has more effect on the team's success/failure than any single player on the team.

Clearly appropriate in many cases...

Look at the Mav's Championship in 2011 -- if not for Rick Carlisle making adjustments after 2 games, LeBron would have had another trophy.

A coach puts you in position to win ... he takes your talents and turns your potential into reality, or a team's potential into reality.

As to golf, a coach does similar work. He puts you in a position, or increases the probability of the golfer making a high quality swing when the pressure is on...

[Spitfisher]

Let's face it swing coaches are only as good as their last win, Harmon has had quite a run and continues to develop players to a higher caliber, Fowler is likely his latest accomplishment. I don't believe Tiger would have the same impact with Harmon today, he knows it and besides the personality conflict between the two, Butch has the most to lose and the least to gain IMO. Tiger in my opinion should go it alone, with possibly some help, but with no formal announcment, but if he does not know it now with video tape and track man analysis available, god help him. Perhaps he should become more of a feel player for example. Forget the distance, get in the fairway and if takes a smooth 8 iron rather than totally crushed PW, so be it. I also feel he has lost some fan base, certainly not trending up and yet others are ready to jump on the Rory bandwagon. The Pink hats have already jumped and will circle back to Tiger once he is in contention, that said tiger could use a shrink as well as an underwriter and planner for Tiger 2.0 going forward. His personality and interaction with fans, media, sponsors and even peers needs a major make-over. Suck it up and stop with the excuses. Especially as he falls more and more in mediocrity with his driver and some of the other skill sets he had almost 10 years ago. Can he win? Yup, but not another major until, he can hit that driver and accept 20-25 yards less then the youngsters out there. My 2 euros

[newtogolf]

Let's face it swing coaches are only as good as their last win, Harmon has had quite a run and continues to develop players to a higher caliber, Fowler is likely his latest accomplishment. I don't believe Tiger would have the same impact with Harmon today, he knows it and besides the personality conflict between the two, Butch has the most to lose and the least to gain IMO.

I agree, Butch is on the back 9 of his career as an instructor and is considered by most to be the best coach Tiger has worked with.  While there is a slight chance Tiger could excel working with Butch and exceed Jack's record, the odds are against him and there's nothing for Butch to gain in associating himself with Tiger's decline.

Tiger in my opinion should go it alone, with possibly some help, but with no formal announcment, but if he does not know it now with video tape and track man analysis available, god help him. Perhaps he should become more of a feel player for example. Forget the distance, get in the fairway and if takes a smooth 8 iron rather than totally crushed PW, so be it.

I also feel he has lost some fan base, certainly not trending up and yet others are ready to jump on the Rory bandwagon. The Pink hats have already jumped and will circle back to Tiger once he is in contention, that said tiger could use a shrink as well as an underwriter and planner for Tiger 2.0 going forward. His personality and interaction with fans, media, sponsors and even peers needs a major make-over. Suck it up and stop with the excuses. Especially as he falls more and more in mediocrity with his driver and some of the other skill sets he had almost 10 years ago. Can he win? Yup, but not another major until, he can hit that driver and accept 20-25 yards less then the youngsters out there.

If you believe what Hank wrote in his book about Tiger, I don't think Tiger can go it alone.  While he may know a lot about his swing and what he likes and doesn't like he also was portrayed as being very insecure about it.  I think Tiger needs affirmation from someone he respects that he's heading in the right direction.  I also believe he needs someone to fill the hole he lost when his dad passed away.

I'm trying to avoid being too analytical here, but Tiger is the person he is today because of his life experiences.  Earl kept Tiger on a pretty short leash and I get the impression wasn't too trusting a person.  Tiger was raised to be a champion, that was his focus, not being fan friendly, making friends with others on the Tour, etc.  Many of the things I hear and read about Tiger are not that much different what than I've read about Ben Hogan (minus the sexual indiscretions of course).

I'd like to see Tiger just enjoy golf and life.  He's been on this quest to be the greatest for his entire life and I don't think he's had much fun doing it.  He doesn't seem to have a passion for playing golf, his passion is to win.  Phil seems to love to play golf, even when he's out of contention he tries to have fun and doesn't give up.

When Tiger is playing poorly, he looks miserable, his body language, verbal language and approach to the game all become very angry and negative.  Some call that intensity but as he reaches the end of his career there are likely a lot more days ahead of him where he won't be winning and that will make him even more miserable if he can't find a way to enjoy golf again.  For that reason he needs a swing coach that can help him deal with his aging body and declining skills to make the most of what he has left of his career.

[Zeph]

I have bounced some things off Notah Begay III, my close friend and former Stanford teammate. We just kind of talked things through; he's like an older brother. We've discussed my options and what direction he thinks I should go. He's just trying to help out any way he can. I have been asked if I ever give him any advice about his on-course commentary, and I say, 'No, because I'm always on the other end of it.' Once he was standing in the middle of the fairway, and we had to yell at him to move out of the way.

http://www.tigerwoods.com/news/2014/09/18/95262536/tigers-blog-proud-of-hero-world-challenge-looking-forward-to-hosting-in-december/

I don't know about him coaching himself.

[mvmac]

I don't know about him coaching himself.

It wouldn't last, he's always had someone to bounce ideas off of or someone to give him answers to satisfy his curiosities.

[jamo]

It wouldn't last, he's always had someone to bounce ideas off of or someone to give him answers to satisfy his curiosities.

Didn't he say he was going to do this last time too?