What If Scenario: PGA Tour Becomes an All-Putting Tour or an All-Ballstriking Tour

[iacas]

Fair enough. Out of curiosity, where would you suggest the other 123/124 guys who would qualify for the "putting tour" come from?

The BILLIONS of people in the world. You. Me. Your mom. Who knows? Putting isn't hard.

[Golfingdad]

The BILLIONS of people in the world. You. Me. Your mom. Who knows?

Putting isn't hard.

Over the course of the last 3 or 4 mini golf rounds we've played, my 5 year old has more hole-in-ones than I do!!

But my mom is a horrible putter, no way she's making the tour!

[Abu3baid]

it is really unfortunate that I have seen this question and read the answer and the logic behind the answer, as this stops me from being able to come up with what my true answer would have been if I was seeing this question for the first time.  Too bad too, because I like this question.

I think any answer I end up giving will be tainted, so I will abstain from giving an official answer.

I will say that I am convinced that pga tour pros are there because of their ball striking though!  That I have no doubt about!

[Lihu]

1) I've seen too many seniors make 20 foot putts like it was nothing to them, and would guess there will be 90 year old golfers on the putting tour. So, the odds that the current pros make this tour are not that high.

2) Long drive people will flood this tour. I watched a scratch, 8 and  18 handicap (fists of stone), who hit long and make a lot of GIR because they only have a PW to the green. I know so many people who can hit greens to really be convinced that this tour will contain the current tour players. Just think of all the high school and college players who all hit long, and I can't imagine that they can't have a fighting chance on this tour against the current tour players.

IDK how many of the current pros would be on either tour, but I suspect not a lot. The current pros are great at being balanced in their skill sets, which is what probably separates them from the masses of other players.

[iacas]

1) I've seen too many seniors make 20 foot putts like it was nothing to them, and would guess there will be 90 year old golfers on the putting tour. So, the odds that the current pros make this tour are not that high.

2) Long drive people will flood this tour. I watched a scratch, 8 and  18 handicap (fists of stone), who hit long and make a lot of GIR because they only have a PW to the green. I know so many people who can hit greens to really be convinced that this tour will contain the current tour players. Just think of all the high school and college players who all hit long, and I can't imagine that they can't have a fighting chance on this tour against the current tour players.

IDK how many of the current pros would be on either tour, but I suspect not a lot. The current pros are great at being balanced in their skill sets, which is what probably separates them from the masses of other players.

Correct answers are:

1) 0

2) Most of them.

It will not be dominated by long drive guys. They've gotta hit greens, @Lihu , which is a HUGE part of what makes the current PGA Tour players good…

Those two answers are kind of the point of the question. :) They illustrate quite a bit… Did you read L S W? :)

[Lihu]

Correct answers are:

1) 0

2) Most of them.

It will not be dominated by long drive guys. They've gotta hit greens, @Lihu, which is a HUGE part of what makes the current PGA Tour players good…

Those two answers are kind of the point of the question. :) They illustrate quite a bit… Did you read LSW? :)

I would have thought that lots of people hit pro level GIR, but I'm sure you've done the math to confirm that the current pros get closer to the pins than a highly skilled amateur.

Sure I read LSW. I understand that putting is relatively low on the separation value chart and that GIR is very high. I just didn't connect the dots that pros separate themselves with just this one attribute. I simply figured that in addition to this attribute, short game and putting at the highest level is what separates them from the highly skilled amateur.

Thinking/researching a bit more about it, I agree with what you state and it makes sense to me now. The statistics don't lie.

Picked this up on the "Golf Digest Blog"

Data compiled by Golf Digest, based on 166 PGA tour rounds starting in 2009 season and 5,202 amateur rounds from Sandeers game analysis website, shotbyshot.com

PGA Tour Winner 0-2 HDCP
Avg Score-                       67.0                       73.5
Fairways hit                      9.3                         8.7
GIR                                 13.2                       11.4
AVG 1st PUTT 20ft                      20.4
Chips/round                       4.6                        5.8
AVG dis to hole                  5.8 ft                     8.7
putts                               27.7                       30.7
made 1-3 ft                      98%                       96%
made 4-5 ft                      85%                       74%
made 6-10 ft                    63%                        42%
One Putt Green                 45%                        33%
Three Putt Green               2%                          5%

[mvmac]

I just didn't connect the dots that pros separate themselves with just this one attribute. I simply figured that in addition to this attribute, short game and putting at the highest level is what separates them from the highly skilled amateur.

No, it's their tee to green game by far. Remember a guy that shoots 80 will out-perform a tour player on the green 20% of the time and a scratch will out-perform a pro over 30% of the time. If a scratch golfer played against a pro in a GIR or closest to the hole competition, the chances he'll beat the pro are much, much smaller.

[Lihu]

No, it's their tee to green game by far. Remember a guy that shoots 80 will out-perform a tour player on the green 20% of the time and a scratch will out-perform a pro over 30% of the time. If a scratch golfer played against a pro in a GIR or closest to the hole competition, the chances he'll beat the pro are much, much smaller.

Yeah, I added the stats that prove that fact.

BTW, the putting does show that they have 3 less strokes, but that's because they get the ball 3 feet closer to the pin on the approaches and chip/pitch shots.

[No Mulligans]

I have heard that Ben Hogan was an advocate for larger diameter holes... Just saying.

[cutshot878]

All Putting Tour:

3%  (Tiger Woods, Ben Crane, Freddy Jacobson, David Toms, Rickie Fowler, a few others)

Most of the other top 150-200 money list players would immediately retire (goodbye sponsors) and live comfortably for the rest of their lives in gated communities like Isleworth and Lake Nona or some of those Jupiter haunts (Seminole?) or perhaps Sea Island, Georgia, playing golf like the athletes that they are---mostly walking and trying to make that little ball fly miles through the air. They would leave the more sedentary and stationary part of the game known as putting (a favorite of old men who can't make the little ball fly great distances in the air anymore) to a different sort of competitor. Someone (with out of date clothing, think plaid, perhaps from a different generation) willing to spend 12 hour days standing (with bad posture) in one spot making that ball fall into the 4.5 inch hole. These sort of chaps would be more like professional billiard players. This would be a great boon to the chiropractors and massage therapists who would treat these players for their various neck and back pains from stooping over a golf ball for hours on end, as they attempted to master the art of the putt and of reading greens. The different putter lengths and grips might keep the T.V. viewer entertained for the annually televised "World Putting Championship." It would be as popular as the "World's Strongest Man" contest or "Remax Long Drive World Championship."

All Ballstriking Tour:

97% of the players from the Top 150 PGA Tour Money List.

[pcombs21]

Don't worry if you get these answers wrong. Many teaching pros are getting them wrong on The Facebook as well. :)

Wait, the teaching pros on Facebook don't always get it right? : P

[iacas]

Wait, the teaching pros on Facebook don't always get it right? : P

Neither do some students… :D

[MS256]

Okay. I've got to ask. Why do you call it "The Facebook"?

[iacas]

Okay. I've got to ask.

Why do you call it "The Facebook"?

OT, but because that's what it was called, originally.

[teeitup22]

Is there any way we can see some of the responses to what all these teaching pros said? I'm curious.

[mvmac]

On 10/31/2014 at 7:54 PM, teeitup22 said:

Is there any way we can see some of the responses to what all these teaching pros said? I'm curious.

Sure. Some guys "get it" and other don't.

[iacas]

Rick Wright, I'd point out, is a putting instructor.

Since we're arguing "don't practice your putting very much" those types tend to be a little miffed. They've chosen to specialize in an area of the game we tell people isn't terribly important.

Because it's not… :D

[bubble]

question 1 :

it depends on the prize money, then many other considerations other than actual skill or skill development.

question 2 :

it depends on the prize money, then many other considerations other than actual skill or skill development.