2014 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Valleygolfer]

Isn't that just another way of saying that you don't care for it much in the States because you can't win it?!

I was waiting for this. No it's not. We would be happy winning but it just isn't that big of a deal. Our players look like they are having fun but there is just limited interest. I liked watching the matches but my happiness winning wouldn't change my day after an hour later. The loss was pretty over after I turned the TV off. I am more irritated with people being pissed that figjam spoke his mind. Sorry you can't rub it in... :-\

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekend hacker1

Isn't that just another way of saying that you don't care for it much in the States because you can't win it?!

Our players look like they are having fun but there is just limited interest......

Viewing figures disagree; the Ryder Cup is generally watched by more people in the US than the PGA Championship, only the Masters final round and US Open final round had more in 2012 for example. Is it a complete coincidence that both those Majors were won by US players? I wonder......

Lot of soul searching going on here but I think it comes down to 2 things:

1. The European players genuinely care more about their team than themselves and so representing Europe means something to them. Far more than winning money on a regular tour event. I'm not quite as anti Phil as some on here are, even after what he said in the press conference, but someone quoted him saying he wants to be in the Olymics to win a gold medal. Ask any on the European side and the answer will be along the lines of "I want to represent my country" - there's a difference (although I'm sure they'd like a medal too :) )

2. The European players all play on 2 tours and although the European Tour has less glitz and glamour than the PGA Tour, it's played all over the world on massively varying course types. It gives the guys a good grounding in the sport. How many times did our commentators (with Butch Harmon and Jack Nicklaus....) ask why the US players kept insisting on going the aerial route around the greens when the smart play was a chip and run. I just think playing both tours gives them a bit of an advantage.

I could add 3. We're better at golf but that might be pushing my luck :)

[Silent]

2. The European players all play on 2 tours and although the European Tour has less glitz and glamour than the PGA Tour, it's played all over the world on massively varying course types. It gives the guys a good grounding in the sport. How many times did our commentators (with Butch Harmon and Jack Nicklaus....) ask why the US players kept insisting on going the aerial route around the greens when the smart play was a chip and run. I just think playing both tours gives them a bit of an advantage.

Couldn't agree with you more on this one.

[taxgolf]

Of what I understand of the golf media, more or less I get the impression that Tom Watson made some crucial errors.

Could it ever be possible that a non-american would captain the USA side? The FA (soccer, that is) appointed a foreigner as a coach for the national team.

[Silent]

If you were going to consider this a defense of the "population" argument (which I don't think has a lot of merit, perhaps a tiny bit), you can't just count the populations of the countries represented. You may as well count the populations of the U.S. states represented. The European team had all of Europe to pull from:

U.S. Population: 313 million

Europe Population: 743 million

Mwah, now you're taking all kinds of countries in the sum that don't play any role at all in the golf sport. USA have 25 players in the top 50 of the world, you should be able to make a competitive team out of this.  I think it's not about quantity, and not even completely about quality (even though at this specific moment Europe have the better golfers), it's a lot about mentality . Europe also managed to win with lesser teams in the recent history of Ryder Cup, and seems to perform better in teamplay. A team is more than the sum of the individuals in my opinion.

[Hardballs]

T.E.A.M. Together Everyone Achieves More

[Mr. Desmond]

Of what I understand of the golf media, more or less I get the impression that Tom Watson made some crucial errors.

Could it ever be possible that a non-american would captain the USA side? The FA (soccer, that is) appointed a foreigner as a coach for the national team.

The problem is the USA Organization of its Ryder Cup Team -- the process of selecting a Captain and organizing and forming a team.

Once upon a time, the USA could trot out better talent with an inferior organization and win, because of its individual players.

No more.

[Shorty]

T.E.A.M.

Together

Everyone

Achieves

More

I though we were safe from Busseyisms here.

[Wansteadimp]

On the population thing, the more salient point is the number of people playing the game surely than the general populations? The best numbers I could come up with in a very brief internet search are as follows: -

US - 28.6 million players

Europe - 4.1 million players  - Austria, Belgium, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Scotland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland & Wales

I don't think there are any huge golfing nations missed off these numbers - Portugal maybe but I can't see huge numbers of players & Mikko Ilonen Finland.

Links to the stats

http://www.growthegameofgolf.org/statistics/

http://www.golflink.com/facts_6346_many-people-play-golf-usa.html

[Valleygolfer]

Viewing figures disagree; the Ryder Cup is generally watched by more people in the US than the PGA Championship, only the Masters final round and US Open final round had more in 2012 for example. Is it a complete coincidence that both those Majors were won by US players? I wonder......

I know why the stats, if they are true, state this. I am just saying the celebration and lamenting are limited here. I wanted the US team to win and was disappointed with their play but again, the only outlet was here and only a handful of people discussing the tournament. Frankly I don't care if we have the Cup. I am not one of those people that identify with a sports team to make me feel like I am a winner. It's entertainment. The value is limited in the states. We cheer and get excited during the Ryder Cup and when it's over, win or lose, on to the next tournament. I love good golf. I love the one time novelty, but moving on... To quote my favorite movies.... " Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your black panther party."

[Kieran123]

If you were going to consider this a defense of the "population" argument (which I don't think has a lot of merit, perhaps a tiny bit), you can't just count the populations of the countries represented. You may as well count the populations of the U.S. states represented. The European team had all of Europe to pull from:

U.S. Population: 313 million

Europe Population: 743 million

There are countries that don't really count though

Russia, Lithuania, Estoria, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprs, Czech Republic, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Kazakhstan, Liechenstein, Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Solvenia

Maybe some of those can 'count' but really.....

[Crim]

There are countries that don't really count though

Russia, Lithuania, Estoria, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprs, Czech Republic, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Kazakhstan, Liechenstein, Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Solvenia

Maybe some of those can 'count' but really.....

I wonder how many people from Montana have been in the Ryder Cup....

This is just getting silly. Stop talking about populations like they mean something.

Facts are that the USA team was an average of 16th in the World Golf Rankings. Europe was somewhere like 18th. Now that's competitive golf right there.

[iacas]

There are countries that don't really count though

Russia, Lithuania, Estoria, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprs, Czech Republic, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Kazakhstan, Liechenstein, Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Solvenia

Maybe some of those can 'count' but really.....

My point was - and remains - that population is a stupid way to look at things, but if you're gonna count population, you can't count only those countries that "participated" in the Ryder Cup while counting ALL of the United States.

It's a dumb way to look at things, particularly when you're talking about the top 0.1% of the top 0.1% of golfers. It amounts to rounding errors at that point.

[Nosevi]

[quote name="Nosevi" url="/t/77288/2014-ryder-cup-discussion-thread/620_20#post_1061175"] Viewing figures disagree; the Ryder Cup is generally watched by more people in the US than the PGA Championship, only the Masters final round and US Open final round had more in 2012 for example. Is it a complete coincidence that both those Majors were won by US players? I wonder......

I know why the stats, if they are true, state this. I am just saying the celebration and lamenting are limited here. I wanted the US team to win and was disappointed with their play but again, the only outlet was here and only a handful of people discussing the tournament. Frankly I don't care if we have the Cup. I am not one of those people that identify with a sports team to make me feel like I am a winner. It's entertainment. The value is limited in the states. We cheer and get excited during the Ryder Cup and when it's over, win or lose, on to the next tournament. I love good golf. I love the one time novelty, but moving on... To quote my favorite movies.... " Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your black panther party."[/quote] And yet 641 posts later in this microcosm of (largely) US golfingness and people are still talking about it and why it keeps 'going wrong'. While you couldn't give two hoots about the Cup (although you are posting about it?) it would seem that others care a tad more. And why shouldn't they? It has nothing to do with people needing to support a team to feel like a winner, it's to do with the fact that supporting your country in any sporting arena is not a bad thing to do. If the Ryder Cup is 'just another tournament' to the US team I think that might point towards why they keep losing. But I don't think it is, I think they care a little more about it.

[Hardballs]

I though we were safe from Busseyisms here. :-\   [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/106748/] [/URL]

Haha, I thought being in the uk I was the only person exposed to busseyisms??

[RetroJFrancisco]

Golf is easier in the states, sorry to throw such a curve-ball about.. but its true..

:Golf is 1 dimensional in the states, here in Europe we learn to play every type of golf imaginable be it links golf or parkland golf, firm fairways firm greens to soft greens soft fairways..

Having played quite a few times in the states (+50 times), I can confirm that every single time I have played the course has been set up in the same way: Firm fairways- Soft greens..

Its so much easier to play the game this way.. Granted, I've played tough american courses, as I've played easy European ones.. But on the whole, US courses are set up much easier.

Europeans are better rounded golfers, we learn different shots from a young age as they are needed from one course to the next.

[rehmwa]

My point was - and remains - that population is a stupid way to look at things, but if you're gonna count population, you can't count only those countries that "participated" in the Ryder Cup while counting ALL of the United States.

I agree - stupid way to look at it.

But if anyone feels they MUST - at least make an attempt at an apples to apples - ish comparison

[iacas]

Golf is easier in the states, sorry to throw such a curve-ball about.. but its true..

Europeans are better rounded golfers, we learn different shots from a young age as they are needed from one course to the next.

Nah. Sorry, gonna try to nip that sort of nonsense in the bud right here and now.

The U.S. has windy states, firm golf courses, and a lot of varieties of grasses, rough (pine straw included), etc. We have all manner of bunkers, greens, and so on. We have at least as much variety as European courses… many of which are quite "American" in style, like Gleneagles…

You're not gonna convince many people that Europeans are "better rounded golfers."

And not that personal experience matters much, but I played quite well in Scotland. On links courses.