Mickelson vs Watson: Was Phil Right to Be Critical of Watson at the Press Conference?

[Hardballs]

Wow, the media sure are good at whipping up a frenzy! As for was Phil right to say what he did? Of course he was, it was a press conference where he was asked for his views and so he gave them! And I agree with them! He could have said much worse! As a Brit even I questioned some of toms decisions, but tom always had the weaker side before tee off and faced an uphill struggle from the start! We don't know if the exchanges between Phil and tom that went on behind the scenes, of which I'm sure there was, but it's over now, it was a great event as always with some great golf, particularly Justin rose, it's done, it's gone, and now we have to wait another 2 years!!

[misty_mountainhop]

Pretty amazed this poll's as close as it is. Phil can say what he likes - in private. The way he did it was pathetic and childish. He shouldn't have been surprised if he'd got both barrels in return, on camera. Fortunately for everyone, Watson didn't stoop to Mickleson's own level.

So he didn't like the management team this time around? Put up, shut up, do your best and make your representations behind the scenes afterwards. I'm sure that if he has/had the backing of all the other players, the USGA/PGA/whomever would have to listen going forward.

What will be very interesting is U.S. team selection for the future and whether Mickleson is involved, at all, whether he's top 9 on the money list, or not. Can anyone imagine a potential Captain wanting (golfing ability aside...and his RC record isn't that great) him involved?

[misty_mountainhop]

And for the Ryder Cup that starts with the captain.  If he fails, the team has more than just the opposition to overcome.  The captain's job is to put the team in the best possible position to win.  If they still get beat, then so be it.  That's competition.  But for the captain to distance himself from his team to the point where he is just giving orders and expecting them to carry them out unquestioningly is not a recommended form of team building or leadership.

Come on. Surely everyone knew what they were getting in Watson? Surely the people who appointed him knew? The players have had 2 years to make their representations to whomever. Even then, if Watson and his VCs ignored everything and just worked by diktat, it's still a case of do your best and make yourself heard afterwards and at the appropriate forum. What Mickleson did was wrong on just about every level. He deserves all the opprobrium headed his way.

[3putter]

I vote Yes. I appreciate the fact that he said it right there in front of Watson, and the fact that he was direct makes it extra good. With that said, I put this loss on the players because, at the end of the day, it's still just golf. They are the best at it and they should find a way to get it done.

[CarlSpackler]

Put me down for a yes. Phil had the guts to say what everyone else wanted to say.

[David in FL]

Put me down for a No vote.

I'm a Phil fan, but that wasn't the time to air the internal dirty laundry.

[LeftyTrevor]

My answer is a very cautious yes. While nobody likes the "guy" who blames a loss on everyone but himself, I took the time to read the transcript for the whole interview. I think a lot of people are taking his comments out of context. If Phil had not made his opinion known there would be little to no talk of the pods system or what the American team can do to better themselves in the future. I am a supervisor and have effectively used a very similar approach in my job. I completely agree that when you everybody feel invested you will have better results.

[dsc123]

I'm surprised there's so much support for Phil's comments.  I thought it was a classless move. 'ing on your captain like that, immediately after the loss, to the world.  I actually lost a lot of respect for Phil after that.

The excuse that he was asked a question and simply answered honestly is a joke.  This is real life, not the movie liar liar.

Same with the excuse that he comments will be effective.  There are diplomatic and respectful ways to say the same thing.  The next cup isn't for 2 years.  Phil could put in a lot of lobbying before then, behind the scenes.  He could enlist his teammates to help pressure for change.

And seriously, what is his criticism?  That if Tom went with the pod system the players would have tried harder?  I find it hard to accept players criticizing the captain for not their own lack of motivation.

[Fourputt]

What most of the nay-sayers are skipping over is the fact that Phil did offer suggestions to address what he perceived as procedural mistakes on the US side in the last few competitions.  You hear often the comment "Don't complain if you can't offer a better idea."  Well Phil pointed out what he thought was wrong and offered an idea for potential improvement and he did it in a very public venue where his ideas would be heard.  If he had waited a week to say it, we might never have heard a thing about it and nothing would change until or unless he gets the captain's job somewhere down the road.  Now there might be some public pressure on the next captain to try a slightly different process.

When something isn't working, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.  If everyone just sits passively by because they are afraid of the fallout, then the problem just continues to fester.  One definition of insanity is doing something the same way over and over, but expecting different results.  I guess you no voters are in favor of insanity.

I'm surprised there's so much support for Phil's comments.  I thought it was a classless move.  'ing on your captain like that, immediately after the loss, to the world.  I actually lost a lot of respect for Phil after that.

The excuse that he was asked a question and simply answered honestly is a joke.  This is real life, not the movie liar liar.

Same with the excuse that he comments will be effective.  There are diplomatic and respectful ways to say the same thing.  The next cup isn't for 2 years.  Phil could put in a lot of lobbying before then, behind the scenes.  He could enlist his teammates to help pressure for change.

And seriously, what is his criticism?  That if Tom went with the pod system the players would have tried harder?  I find it hard to accept players criticizing the captain for not their own lack of motivation.

Sometimes it takes more than diplomacy to get anyone's attention.  I don't see why you would respect Phil before, but not after.  He has always had a history of speaking his mind, yet you pick this one to lose respect for him?

[skydog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

The excuse that he was asked a question and simply answered honestly is a joke.  This is real life, not the movie liar liar.

Same with the excuse that he comments will be effective.  There are diplomatic and respectful ways to say the same thing.  The next cup isn't for 2 years.  Phil could put in a lot of lobbying before then, behind the scenes.  He could enlist his teammates to help pressure for change.

Speaking of real life, when would have been a better time for Phil to do this in a way that might actually invoke change?? The media filled Fall golf season which Phil won't be a part of?? The PGA will likely make a 2016 Captain selection by the end of this year and Phil probably won't be seen or heard much from until January/Feb when the real events crank back up.

[Hardballs]

What was interesting was when mcginley told Ian poulter he wouldn't be going out in the foursomes, his response, and I quote, was, .. "Your the captain, you make the calls! I'll be ready for tomorrow!" You either play as a team and win as a team, ....or you don't!

[dsc123]

Sometimes it takes more than diplomacy to get anyone's attention.  I don't see why you would respect Phil before, but not after.  He has always had a history of speaking his mind, yet you pick this one to lose respect for him?

To me, this is different because its in the context of a team and kicking a guy when he's down.  I think that's worse than complaining about the course set up or whatever else.

Speaking of real life, when would have been a better time for Phil to do this in a way that might actually invoke change?? The media filled Fall golf season which Phil won't be a part of?? The PGA will likely make a 2016 Captain selection by the end of this year and Phil probably won't be seen or heard much from until January/Feb when the real events crank back up.

Honestly, I don't know who makes those decisions.  But I think it would be effective to get together with some of the other players and talk to the decision makers about the next time.  I think the decision makers would listen.  You can push for change without kicking a guy when he's down.

[cfritchie]

Wow, the media sure are good at whipping up a frenzy!

Was I the only one who caught Morning Drive this morning. Tim Rosaforte's comments after he had a telephone conversation with PGA President Ted Bishop during a break on the show?

Ted Bishop told Rosaforte that he and Phil had a conversation at the Scottish Open Pro-Am where Mickleson told Bishop that they were getting no communication from Tom Watson, Bishop suggested Mickleson reach out to Watson, which he said he had done and was not getting any communication.

I also read on twitter that it is being suggested that Watson sat Phil and Keegan because he overheard them complaining about his leadership. I also read Keegan and Mickleson learned of being sat in a text message...Really? If that's true that is NO WAY to lead.

Rosaforte went on to say that Phil was basically the team spokesman and more comments from other players would eventually start to come out. It seems as though this has been building for quite some time....

I have to say I was on the fence and kinda 50/50 but a dictatorship type of leadership just doesn't work anymore.

[misty_mountainhop]

What most of the nay-sayers are skipping over is the fact that Phil did offer suggestions to address what he perceived as procedural mistakes on the US side in the last few competitions.  You hear often the comment "Don't complain if you can't offer a better idea."  Well Phil pointed out what he thought was wrong and offered an idea for potential improvement and he did it in a very public venue where his ideas would be heard.  If he had waited a week to say it, we might never have heard a thing about it and nothing would change until or unless he gets the captain's job somewhere down the road.  Now there might be some public pressure on the next captain to try a slightly different process.

When something isn't working, it's an issue that needs to be addressed.  If everyone just sits passively by because they are afraid of the fallout, then the problem just continues to fester.  One definition of insanity is doing something the same way over and over, but expecting different results.  I guess you no voters are in favor of insanity.

Sometimes it takes more than diplomacy to get anyone's attention.  I don't see why you would respect Phil before, but not after.  He has always had a history of speaking his mind, yet you pick this one to lose respect for him?

Yep. Leaving Mickleson out of the 12 altogether. Let's take another example - the England Rugby Union team of recent vintage. They were well known for having very, very heated discussions behind the scenes with the coaches etc. None of it was public except in the sense that people knew it was happening. They must have had something right as they won the World Cup with that mentality. If one of them had acted the way Mickleson just did it wouldn't have worked, they'd have kissed their international careers goodbye for some time, if not for all time.

Mickleson's behaviour is only right in Mickleson's own head. Rant and rave off camera, with your team-mates and coaches.

What was interesting was when mcginley told Ian poulter he wouldn't be going out in the foursomes, his response, and I quote, was, .. "Your the captain, you make the calls! I'll be ready for tomorrow!"

You either play as a team and win as a team, ....or you don't!

Quite.

[misty_mountainhop]

Was I the only one who caught Morning Drive this morning. Tim Rosaforte's comments after he had a telephone conversation with PGA President Ted Bishop during a break on the show?

Ted Bishop told Rosaforte that he and Phil had a conversation at the Scottish Open Pro-Am where Mickleson told Bishop that they were getting no communication from Tom Watson, Bishop suggested Mickleson reach out to Watson, which he said he had done and was not getting any communication.

I also read on twitter that it is being suggested that Watson sat Phil and Keegan because he overheard them complaining about his leadership. I also read Keegan and Mickleson learned of being sat in a text message...Really? If that's true that is NO WAY to lead.

Rosaforte went on to say that Phil was basically the team spokesman and more comments from other players would eventually start to come out. It seems as though this has been building for quite some time....

I have to say I was on the fence and kinda 50/50 but a dictatorship type of leadership just doesn't work anymore.

If this is the case, where is Bishop et al now? Letting Watson take all the flak. Wow. That's brave. They picked him to be Captain. Surely they knew what he was likely to be like? Cowards. And even if all that's the case, Mickleson's behaviour is still from the sewers.

[iacas]

The only thing that allows Mickleson to think he can get away with this is that it's a one shot deal for Watson etc. If he was firing off like that, in public, at his coach when he was a member of any normal sporting setup then he's being benched and/or sold.

Tom's job as the captain was done, and Phil had more of a right to be there than Tom. Tom was elected (not by the players mind you), Phil earned the points.

I don't think it can be remotely right for Mickleson to 'call out' Watson in front of the media circus the way he did. It only shows him for the fool he obviously is. What do you want to happen? For Watson to take public umbrage and tear a strip off in return? Tit-for-tat? It's what Mickleson deserved but, fortunately, he didn't get it. It's childish and pathetic but if that's the way people expect the U.S. Ryder Cup scene to be run, we'll happily pick up the trophy every couple of years.

a) He was asked the question. He answered it. He didn't trash Watson except with one small comment at the end.

b) Watson didn't take any of the blame himself. He repeatedly blamed the players.

c) Currently you already DO take the trophy every two years the way it's run. Phil perhaps wants to see that changed.

Seriously?? You think it would have been right of Mickleson to have been even more publicly demeaning that he was?

Did you actually watch the video? Because it feels like you didn't. He wasn't exactly going all out lashing at Watson. He simply said there was very little player investment in the years since 2008, which is again the topic about which he was asked.

Ignoring Watson this time, what're the excuses for the other 7 losses from 9 recently?? The evidence is there isn't it? There's something seriously amiss with the U.S. over recent years at the Ryder Cup. It's not Watson's fault, just as much as it's not the fault of the other Captains of the last 10 events (Azinger excepted).

Why not? Azinger applied a different formula. He got 4 captain's picks. He changed the way people got on their team. He involved the players. He got a bit lucky, too, but that U.S. team played differently. They had the "camaraderie" you see when your team is winning.

Why do you just assume "it's not Watson's fault"? Why can't it be the fault of Watson. And Pavin. And Sutton. And so on? Why not?

Phil is saying the FORMULA is off.

I think you misread me.

in essence, I advocate the process of first working behind the scenes - but if that doesn't work - that's the time to 'air the dirty laundry' in public.

Are you assuming that wasn't done? For all anyone but a select few know, it could have been going on for years.

Plus, he was asked the question.

This man had ample opportunity to make his case before hand, but was more obseesed with himself

You too seem to be assuming quite a bit.

Did Phil Mickelson really earn his points on the team, earlier on friday and saturday?

He went 2-1 for the week. So… yeah. Because the U.S. would have won 18.5 to 9.5 if the other team members had that success rate.

Pretty amazed this poll's as close as it is. Phil can say what he likes - in private. The way he did it was pathetic and childish. He shouldn't have been surprised if he'd got both barrels in return, on camera. Fortunately for everyone, Watson didn't stoop to Mickleson's own level.

Were you watching the same press conference?

a) You don't know that he hasn't been saying this "in private" for years.

b) Phil didn't go full-on crazy. He was asked the question, answered it, and threw in a single utterance at the end about Watson.

c) Watson repeatedly threw his players and his vice captains under the bus throughout the week! Plus there's evidence he sat Phil for personal reasons?

Please. "Wouldn't stoop to Phil's level?" IMO, he went below it.

Plus, Tom was no longer the captain. He lost that title the instant the matches were over. He was no longer "leading" Phil and the rest of the U.S. team into anything.

So he didn't like the management team this time around? Put up, shut up, do your best and make your representations behind the scenes afterwards. I'm sure that if he has/had the backing of all the other players, the USGA/PGA/whomever would have to listen going forward.

Again, did you watch the press conference? He said he didn't like the way the teams were run in previous years too.

I expect things to change, and Phil will deserve a big part of the credit for it.

Can anyone imagine a potential Captain wanting (golfing ability aside...and his RC record isn't that great) him involved?

I absolutely can.

And Azinger did want him involved, even after 2002, 2004, 2006…

I'm a Phil fan, but that wasn't the time to air the internal dirty laundry.

When was the time? When it would have gotten less play and had insignificant impact?

I'm surprised there's so much support for Phil's comments.  I thought it was a classless move.  'ing on your captain like that, immediately after the loss, to the world.  I actually lost a lot of respect for Phil after that.

I gained respect for him.

He's been accused of being phony in the past, and I'm damn sure he is smart enough to know he'd get blow-back from this, but he said it anyway. He's been doing it behind the scenes and nothing changed. He may have been benched for saying it behind the scenes.

Same question as that I posed to @David in FL : when should he have done it? When it wouldn't matter and nobody would care?

That's the dumbest time to say something that you want HEARD.

The excuse that he was asked a question and simply answered honestly is a joke.  This is real life, not the movie liar liar.

Not an excuse. Just a fact. What should he have said? "I dunno, like my good ol' super captain said, we players and the assistant captains all just sucked this week."???

There are diplomatic and respectful ways to say the same thing.

Let's assume he felt he exhausted those options. What would you have him do?

You know the commonly cited definition of "insanity" right? :P

And seriously, what is his criticism?  That if Tom went with the pod system the players would have tried harder?  I find it hard to accept players criticizing the captain for not their own lack of motivation.

That the players were not invested because Watson treated them like they were (sometimes insubordinate) soldiers under his command, not that they were players who deserved to be communicated with and treated with respect.

Ted Bishop told Rosaforte that he and Phil had a conversation at the Scottish Open Pro-Am where Mickleson told Bishop that they were getting no communication from Tom Watson, Bishop suggested Mickleson reach out to Watson, which he said he had done and was not getting any communication.

I also read on twitter that it is being suggested that Watson sat Phil and Keegan because he overheard them complaining about his leadership. I also read Keegan and Mickleson learned of being sat in a text message...Really? If that's true that is NO WAY to lead.

Rosaforte went on to say that Phil was basically the team spokesman and more comments from other players would eventually start to come out. It seems as though this has been building for quite some time....

I have to say I was on the fence and kinda 50/50 but a dictatorship type of leadership just doesn't work anymore.

I saw the same things.

And the fact that nobody spoke up for Tom - none of the other players - I commented on before as proof that Phil was simply playing leader there and speaking on behalf of many of the other players.

[saevel25]

I agree with @iacas on this one.

There is no right or wrong time. People are going to try to find fault just because they want to. It's how the internet and media is now. It is all opinionated and fault driven. I find no fault in what Phil said.

To me if no one stepped out and supported Tom against what Phil said, that speaks volumes to how everyone else on the team thought of how Tom handled being a captain. Especially his vice captains, the ones working closest with Tom. You'd think that someone would stick up for Tom if it wasn't true in some regard.

Also, what if Phil didn't say anything. Does that put the US team back further because no one is willing to step up and force a change in how things are done. Clearly nothing is working for the US team in the past 10 years.

If someone with Phil's credentials as a golfer, his experience as a Ryder Cup player, steps forward and is candid in how the US team was managed. I am glad someone finally stepped forward. Maybe it will give the next captain a kick in the pants to try to do something different. Clearly things have not worked at all for the US in a long time. What captain in the future would want to have one of the greatest players of our generation speak out against how their leadership of the Ryder Cup. This is how change happens, when someone in a leadership roll actually is candid and honest with their opinions on how things went down. If that means answering a question to the media honestly, then so be it.

[Phil McGleno]

Go figure-What are the odds?![quote name="saevel25" url="/t/77390/mickelson-vs-watson-was-phil-right-to-be-critical-of-watson-at-the-press-conference/90#post_1060841"]I agree with @iacas on this one.  [/quote] ----------------------------------- Just teasing you.-I agree too. I miss the days when men were allowed to be men and say what they thought.-Now we just want pussies who keep quiet and bow to the captain simply because he was picked by some guys in suits to be the captain because he could help generate interest and thus make those same guys in suits some more money.