"Correct" pace of play

[flopster]

Why just a 2-some?  If there's anyone waiting, and there's room in front, they should be allowed through.

There's nothing more frustrating than a group who's holding other players up who won't let them through because to their mind, they're playing at an acceptable pace.  Anyone can play at any pace they like, but faster players should always be allowed through when there's room to do so.

FWIW.....the only thing that bothers me more than waiting on a slow group ahead of me, is being pushed by a faster group behind me.  The last thing I want is to be staring back at them, giving me the stink-eye all day.  I'll get out of their way at the very first chance I have.

That's the precise reason I started this thread, the course has 4 1/2 hours as the acceptable or maximum pace of play and they wouldn't let the group behind them through because they said they were on time. If I didn't have the other marshal there agreeing with him I could have pushed the issue but since it was the end of my shift I just said to myself to let it go and he can deal with it. I felt bad for the group behind cause there was a large gap behind them also so the offending group would have only had to let these guys through and they probably would not have been bothered the rest of the day but what do you do when another marshal is siding with them? On a side note the marshal that did side with them did call me up later that day to apologize for what he said was "getting in the middle" of the situation, I told him it's okay but I think there needs to be some clarification from the course on how they want a situation like this handled, personally I feel any group should allow a faster one through regardless of how fast they are going, if your group is on a 3.5 hour pace but has someone breathing down your neck then absolutely you should let them go, I think the course should elaborate to the players exactly what pace of play is.

[Lihu]

LOL.....now that's entertainment.

Asshats like that give a lot of faster players a bad rap!  There's NEVER an excuse to actually hit into someone.

There's nothing wrong with hitting when you know that it's safe to do so though.  I've seen people get upset because someone played an approach shot up towards the green while they were still putting, even though the shot played had absolutely no intent nor possibility to get to actually get to the green.

It was somewhat entertaining watching two stubborn parties going at it.

[MS256]

Waiting on the green to clear when their 2nd shot is way farther than their drive.

That one always makes me smile. Most would say that is my game. I've hit my second shot longer than my drive (and hit it on the green) more times than I could ever count up.

[saevel25]

That one always makes me smile. Most would say that is my game. I've hit my second shot longer than my drive (and hit it on the green) more times than I could ever count up.

No, I am saying like a 500 yard hole, when you maxed out your drive at 210 and you have 290 left and you wait. I can see like a long par 4, you kinda miss hit your drive, and you nail your 3-wood or something. There are just some cases were there is no way for someone to reach the green.

[newtogolf]

Why just a 2-some?  If there's anyone waiting, and there's room in front, they should be allowed through.

There's nothing more frustrating than a group who's holding other players up who won't let them through because to their mind, they're playing at an acceptable pace.  Anyone can play at any pace they like, but faster players should always be allowed through when there's room to do so.

FWIW.....the only thing that bothers me more than waiting on a slow group ahead of me, is being pushed by a faster group behind me.  The last thing I want is to be staring back at them, giving me the stink-eye all day.  I'll get out of their way at the very first chance I have.

Definitely agree, I didn't mention other groups because to date I've never had a 4-some pushing us when there was room in front to let them pass, it usually happens only with singles or 2-somes.  If there's room and people want to play through I'm always okay with that.

[jgreen85]

I really don't like how some serious SandTrap golfers believe 4.5hrs is good. I guess as long as you let faster players through when there's room, but geez....what are yall doing that takes so long?

I played in a 3-some and I walked, and we had to wait on a few holes, yet I was in my truck at the 4hr mark.

[Golfingdad]

I really don't like how some serious SandTrap golfers believe 4.5hrs is good. I guess as long as you let faster players through when there's room, but geez....what are yall doing that takes so long?

I played in a 3-some and I walked, and we had to wait on a few holes, yet I was in my truck at the 4hr mark.

Because we are talking about playing courses that are always somewhat busy.  We don't think that 4.5 hours as the first group out, or late in the day when nobody around, is acceptable, but we tolerate 4.5 hours on full courses because it's common.

[Lihu]

I really don't like how some serious SandTrap golfers believe 4.5hrs is good. I guess as long as you let faster players through when there's room, but geez....what are yall doing that takes so long?

I played in a 3-some and I walked, and we had to wait on a few holes, yet I was in my truck at the 4hr mark.

Yeah, that happens too. Keep in mind that a 3-some is usually about 20% faster than a 4-some, and some courses are longer than others.

Usually, I play 4-4:30 because I need to wait. If left on my own pace, I tend to rush too much. Mainly, I tend to walk to my ball at a really brisk pace and could be a little out of breath just before taking my second shot. When I need to wait for other golfers moving along at a 4-4:30 pace, I walk slower to my ball because I need to wait for other people to shoot and wait for the green to clear anyway.

[Slice of Life]

No, I am saying like a 500 yard hole, when you maxed out your drive at 210 and you have 290 left and you wait. I can see like a long par 4, you kinda miss hit your drive, and you nail your 3-wood or something. There are just some cases were there is no way for someone to reach the green.

I was playing a par 5, with a GPS confirmed 300 yards to the pin...which made sense since the blue 200 yard marker was still a ways away.

Pured my 3-wood and nailed the green while people were on it. Fortunately they were cool when I explained and apologized when we got up there.

(BTW, you're right, and I agree with what you're saying, just playing Devil's advocate again. )

[saevel25]

I was playing a par 5, with a GPS confirmed 300 yards to the pin...which made sense since the blue 200 yard marker was still a ways away.

Pured my 3-wood and nailed the green while people were on it. Fortunately they were cool when I explained and apologized when we got up there.

(BTW, you're right, and I agree with what you're saying, just playing Devil's advocate again. )

There is always an exception. Normally I would say you don't hit your driver 200 yards. My example was that a person had a reasonably good drive and the next shot was substantially longer. For you, your good drive is what, 260-270 yards? For you to have 300 left in on a par 5, you ended up 60-70 yards less than your normal drive.

I am not saying hit into the green, but know your game is a big part.

[Dave2512]

Yeah the few times I've hit the miracle shot I've been congratulated by those on the green. It doesn't happen enough to worry about. But I see guys waiting from further than they could ever hit a ball and most don't have the skill to hit two perfect shots back to back.

[Lihu]

There is always an exception. Normally I would say you don't hit your driver 200 yards. My example was that a person had a reasonably good drive and the next shot was substantially longer. For you, your good drive is what, 260-270 yards? For you to have 300 left in on a par 5, you ended up 60-70 yards less than your normal drive.

I am not saying hit into the green, but know your game is a big part.

It was actually two conditions, the short drive, and his freakishly long "Sergio Garcia length 3W shot" 300 yards out. If you normally drive 265 I would expect the 3W to be something like 245, and off the deck something like 235?

[Golfingdad]

No, I am saying like a 500 yard hole, when you maxed out your drive at 210 and you have 290 left and you wait. I can see like a long par 4, you kinda miss hit your drive, and you nail your 3-wood or something. There are just some cases were there is no way for someone to reach the green.

I was playing a par 5, with a GPS confirmed 300 yards to the pin...which made sense since the blue 200 yard marker was still a ways away.

Pured my 3-wood and nailed the green while people were on it. Fortunately they were cool when I explained and apologized when we got up there.

(BTW, you're right, and I agree with what you're saying, just playing Devil's advocate again. )

No he's not right.

Simple question here:  Let's say that you did wait for the green to clear on your example.  Do you think that you'd never catch back up to that group in front of you?  And let's say you didn't ... how much time did you lose waiting?  5 minutes?  If the gap gets any bigger after that, it's not because you waited then, it's because you're doing something else to make you slower afterwards.

Plus, Matt of all people should know that it's perfectly plausible to be capable of hitting it really far and straight and at the same time be a mediocre golfer who is capable of topping or flubbing it.

Lastly, and this is THE most important fact in rebutting this silly claim:  This can only be done ONE TIME in a round to cause people behind them to slow down.  Think about it.  So, at worst, this can only be the cause of about 5 minutes total added to a round, and that's assuming that the group in question plays at the exact same pace (not a second faster or slower) than the group they waited for.

[newtogolf]

No he's not right.

Simple question here:  Let's say that you did wait for the green to clear on your example.  Do you think that you'd never catch back up to that group in front of you?  And let's say you didn't ... how much time did you lose waiting?  5 minutes?  If the gap gets any bigger after that, it's not because you waited then, it's because you're doing something else to make you slower afterwards.

Plus, Matt of all people should know that it's perfectly plausible to be capable of hitting it really far and straight and at the same time be a mediocre golfer who is capable of topping or flubbing it.

Lastly, and this is THE most important fact in rebutting this silly claim:  This can only be done ONE TIME in a round to cause people behind them to slow down.  Think about it.  So, at worst, this can only be the cause of about 5 minutes total added to a round, and that's assuming that the group in question plays at the exact same pace (not a second faster or slower) than the group they waited for.

I agree with Drew, safety has to take precedence over pace of play.

[saevel25]

No he's not right.

Simple question here:  Let's say that you did wait for the green to clear on your example.  Do you think that you'd never catch back up to that group in front of you?  And let's say you didn't ... how much time did you lose waiting?  5 minutes?  If the gap gets any bigger after that, it's not because you waited then, it's because you're doing something else to make you slower afterwards.

Plus, Matt of all people should know that it's perfectly plausible to be capable of hitting it really far and straight and at the same time be a mediocre golfer who is capable of topping or flubbing it.

Lastly, and this is THE most important fact in rebutting this silly claim:  This can only be done ONE TIME in a round to cause people behind them to slow down.  Think about it.  So, at worst, this can only be the cause of about 5 minutes total added to a round, and that's assuming that the group in question plays at the exact same pace (not a second faster or slower) than the group they waited for.

My example was primarily based around the fact that the 2nd shot is significantly farther than a typical good drive. I know @Slice of Life a good ways when he hits one. Being 300 yards out, and he hit his drive 200 yards. He should know that was not a typical good drive for him.

In the end go with the gut feeling. If you hit a driver 200 yards all year, and your left with 300 yards to the hole. Seriously you are going to wait to hit your 2nd shot. I would bet money that golfer could tee up the ball from the fairway and never reach the green. What makes the golfer think he will hit the green with a 3 wood.

[Dave2512]

In the end go with the gut feeling. If you hit a driver 200 yards all year, and your left with 300 yards to the hole. Seriously you are going to wait to hit your 2nd shot. I would bet money that golfer could tee up the ball from the fairway and never reach the green. What makes the golfer think he will hit the green with a 3 wood.

This is what I understood your post to be. It's not the shot that could happen so better to use caution but the one that is so unlikely to wait is silly. I see it on the longest par 5 we have (570). Guys that are hitting hybrids to greens on sub 400 yard par 4's thinking they can reach in two from a distance Rory would struggle with because they duffed the drive. IMO it's a sign that the oblivious behavior won't be limited to a couple unrealistic second shots on par 5's and that this golfer is going to manage their entire round poorly.

[Golfingdad]

My example was primarily based around the fact that the 2nd shot is significantly farther than a typical good drive. I know @Slice of Life can hit a ball a good ways when he hits one. Being 300 yards out, and he hit his drive 200 yards. He should know that was not a typical good drive for him.

In the end go with the gut feeling. If you hit a driver 200 yards all year, and your left with 300 yards to the hole. Seriously you are going to wait to hit your 2nd shot. I would bet money that golfer could tee up the ball from the fairway and never reach the green. What makes the golfer think he will hit the green with a 3 wood.

But regardless ... my point is that this one little action - which is mentioned and then "harrumphed" 1000 times every time we talk about pace of play - has very, very little effect on pace of play.  Remember, if can only happen ONCE in a round (if it happens again then obviously the previous times didn't affect the pace of play one iota).  And even then it only affects pace if the group waiting and the group being waited on continue their rounds at the EXACT same pace.  And even if they do, or say its the 18th hole, it's still a whopping 5 minutes or so.

This is what I understood your post to be. It's not the shot that could happen so better to use caution but the one that is so unlikely to wait is silly. I see it on the longest par 5 we have (570). Guys that are hitting hybrids to greens on sub 400 yard par 4's thinking they can reach in two from a distance Rory would struggle with because they duffed the drive. IMO it's a sign that the oblivious behavior won't be limited to a couple unrealistic second shots on par 5's and that this golfer is going to manage their entire round poorly.

That's entirely fair.  It's not that particular action that makes them slow, but that action might be a sign that they play slow.

[dsc123]

Any gap that is opened because someone is waiting to hit their shot when the cannot reasonably reach the green is likely closed by the next green, if not the tee box.