Peyton Manning the Greatest QB?

[saevel25]

Well, I am one to say I am happy Peyton took down Farve's all time Passing TD record. With the way Peyton is playing lately, he will be smashing this record by the time his career ends.

Lets look at some numbers,

66,812 yards passing, only 5026 yards behind. If Peyton plays the rest of this season, he should eclipse that by the middle of next season.

5681 passes completed, 619 behind Farve. He's averaged 400-450 over the past 3 seasons he has played. He should break that record by the middle of next season as well.

2nd all time in passer rating. The only one better is Aaron Rodgers.

4th all time in passing complete percentage.

Peyton has had 40 fourth quarter comebacks with 51 game winning drives. More than Tom Brady or Joe Montana.

From the stand point of knowing an offense, knowing an opposing defense, and making changes on the field. I think there has been no one better than Peyton Manning.

For those who want to complain about his post season play. That he only has 1 superbowl ring. Football is a TEAM sport. That is why I don't think stats like number of Superbowl rings matters when discussing just being a QB. I am just asking, is Peyton Manning the greatest to play his position from the standpoint of being a QB.

[isukgolf]

Until he wins 14 majors, then no .... :-D In the last 10 years or so ... yes ... Joe Montana and Johnny U are still on my top list ... I grew up dream of being Johnny U ... plus I think Johnny U changed the game as we know it today, something Peyton will ever be able to say.

[ilikefishes]

Absolutely. There is nobody on the same field with him. You put Peyton into the Belicheat teams and he wins 6 rings.

[hilmar2k]

You may not want to talk about post season play, but it certainly counts for something. I understand the SB ring argument, but he has historically not played well in the playoffs, and that is not a team thing, it's a Peyton thing.

I'm a little biased, but Tom Brady has to be in the conversation.

And seriously, you sound like an uninformed, jaded Patriot hater to bring up the "Belicheat" stuff. Move on, that argument hasn't had any merit in forever.

[saevel25]

You may not want to talk about post season play, but it certainly counts for something. I understand the SB ring argument, but he has historically not played well in the playoffs, and that is not a team thing, it's a Peyton thing.

I'm a little biased, but Tom Brady has to be in the conversation.

And seriously, you sound like a jaded idiot to bring up the "Belicheat" stuff.

He's only averaged 8 points less on his Passing Rating, and 2% less on his completion percentage. He also ran into the destined Patriots to many times to count. I would say those were more complete TEAMS then the colts were. That had nothing to do with QB.

I do think if Peyton was hampered by his team more than anything. You can only ask a QB to carry a team so much before it falters. Usually for Indy it was their Defense. I think the year Indy won the Superbowl they actually had a top 10 defense that year. Again, team sport.

Yes in some cases Peyton did have some bad games in the playoffs. Again, was that his direct retaliation towards how his team was playing. Did he try to shoulder more and more until it all fell apart.

Well Patriots haven't won Superbowl since Spygate , sorry couldn't help myself.

[Slice of Life]

You may not want to talk about post season play, but it certainly counts for something. I understand the SB ring argument, but he has historically not played well in the playoffs, and that is not a team thing, it's a Peyton thing.

I'm a little biased, but Tom Brady has to be in the conversation.

And seriously, you sound like an uninformed, jaded Patriot hater to bring up the "Belicheat" stuff. Move on, that argument hasn't had any merit in forever.

Post-season stats:

Manning: Comp. percentage: 64.34%. 37 TDs, 24 INTs, 89.2 Rat, Y/A: 7.41.

Brady: Comp. percentage: 62.11%, 43 TDs, 22 INTs, 87.5 Rat, Y/A: 6.76.

Manning has the higher completion percentage, rating, and yards per attempt. Brady has 6 more TDs, but 3 more postseason games....he's also played more of a dink and dunk YAC style offense that is less prone to turnovers.

Your argument about him not playing well in the postseason then invalidates Brady as well, since their stats are very similar.

[hilmar2k]

He's only averaged 8 points less on his Passing Rating, and 2% less on his completion percentage. He also ran into the destined Patriots to many times to count. I would say those were more complete TEAMS then the colts were. That had nothing to do with QB.

I do think if Peyton was hampered by his team more than anything. You can only ask a QB to carry a team so much before it falters. Usually for Indy it was their Defense. I think the year Indy won the Superbowl they actually had a top 10 defense that year. Again, team sport.

Yes in some cases Peyton did have some bad games in the playoffs. Again, was that his direct retaliation towards how his team was playing. Did he try to shoulder more and more until it all fell apart.

Well Patriots haven't won Superbowl since Spygate  , sorry couldn't help myself.

Peyton owns the regular season records, and Brady owns the post season records. I'd say either way, it's been a pleasure watching both of them play, and it's a shame that they will be done soon. It would be nice to see a couple more playoff matches between them.

[hilmar2k]

Post-season stats:

Manning: Comp. percentage: 64.34%. 37 TDs, 24 INTs, 89.2 Rat, Y/A: 7.41.

Brady: Comp. percentage: 62.11%, 43 TDs, 22 INTs, 87.5 Rat, Y/A: 6.76.

Manning has the higher completion percentage, rating, and yards per attempt. Brady has 6 more TDs, but 3 more postseason games....he's also played more of a dink and dunk YAC style offense that is less prone to turnovers.

Your argument about him not playing well in the postseason then invalidates Brady as well, since their stats are very similar.

You forgot one important stat:

Manning: 11-12

Brady: 18-8

I get that win/loss is a team stat, but Brady's teams were never full of HOF'ers. Manning always had way more weapons than Tom did.

[Slice of Life]

You forgot one important stat:

Manning: 11-12

Brady: 18-8

I get that win/loss is a team stat, but Brady's teams were never full of HOF'ers. Manning always had way more weapons than Tom did.

Not an important stat. There are 22 starters on an offense and defense. It's not the NBA, where there are only 5 starters, and wins are more related to a single player.

Brady had Moss/Welker/and possible the best O-Linemen ever, plus top notch defenses.

Brady's Super Bowl Defenses:

2001: #6

2003: #1

2004: #2

2007: #4

2011: #15

Peyton's Super Bowl Defenses:

2006: #23

2009: #8

2013: #22

So, all of Brady's 3 Super Bowl winning teams had a better defense than Manning had in any of his 3 super bowl appearances.

Brady's Patriots lost the Super Bowl with the #4 ranked NFL defense. Manning's Colts won it with the #23 ranked NFL defense.

[Golfingdad]

You forgot one important stat:

Manning: 11-12

Brady: 18-8

I get that win/loss is a team stat, but Brady's teams were never full of HOF'ers. Manning always had way more weapons than Tom did.

Not sure I agree with that last statement at all.  For one, Brady has Bill Belicheck.  Manning has had Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, and John Fox.

Secondly, it's a self fulfilling prophesy.  You can't say Manning wasn't as good because he had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne any more than you can say Harrison and Wayne weren't as good because they had Manning.  It's not a coincidence that the receivers that played with either of those quarterbacks were better than when they weren't with those quarterbacks.

[Abu3baid]

Not sure I agree with that last statement at all.  For one, Brady has Bill Belicheck.  Manning has had Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, and John Fox. Secondly, it's a self fulfilling prophesy.  You can't say Manning wasn't as good because he had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne any more than you can say Harrison and Wayne weren't as good because they had Manning.  It's not a coincidence that the receivers that played with either of those quarterbacks were better than when they weren't with those quarterbacks.

I would say my perception is that manning had better receivers than Brady as well.. Marvin Harrison would succeed with anyone, David givens probably not.. it is realitively easy to measure how good a wide receiver is (maybe not so much by laymen like us) but certainly by coaches looking at tape day in and day out! Even now look at the receivers manning has and compare them to the ones brady is throwing to... not even close and it's hard for me to imagine that this is up for debate! Having said that I would pick manning if I was asked to start a franchise before I pick brady! He is just better, but it is close!

[dsc123]

Its hard to say who is the best ever, because stats don't really tell the story (too many rule changes) and I never watched the older guys, but in my mind he is without a doubt the best of his generation.

So, all of Brady's 3 Super Bowl winning teams had a better defense than Manning had in any of his 3 super bowl appearances.

Brady's Patriots lost the Super Bowl with the #4 ranked NFL defense. Manning's Colts won it with the #23 ranked NFL defense.

Not only that, but if you look at his stats, in the years that he won, he was pretty pedestrian, averaging 215 yards per game, with 11 TDs over 9 playoff games.

He didn't really become the focal point of the team until later in his career, only passing for 4000 yards for the first time in 2005.  Once it was up to him to carry the team, they stopped winning championships.  From 2005-2013 he is 9-8 in the playoffs.

To me, its odd to argue that Brady is better because he won more superbowls, when he hasn't won in 10 years.  Does that mean Brady was better in 2001, when he relieved Bledsoe than when he threw 50 TDs in 2007? Of course not.

Lastly, in 2008, Brady was hurt and the pats went 11-5.  When manning got hurt his team went from 10 wins to 2.  Then he went to the Broncos, who won 4 and 8 games before getting manning, but won 13 with him. .

[MS256]

Peyton? Of course not.

Bart Starr is.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=200

[dsc123]

I would say my perception is that manning had better receivers than Brady as well.. Marvin Harrison would succeed with anyone, David givens probably not.. it is realitively easy to measure how good a wide receiver is (maybe not so much by laymen like us) but certainly by coaches looking at tape day in and day out!

Even now look at the receivers manning has and compare them to the ones brady is throwing to... not even close and it's hard for me to imagine that this is up for debate!

Having said that I would pick manning if I was asked to start a franchise before I pick brady! He is just better, but it is close!

Randy Moss was probably the 2nd best WR to ever play the game.  The only years Brady put up big numbers were when he had Moss.  Gronkowski might be the most talented recieving TE ever.

Demarious Thomas' rec yards tripled when Manning came.  Through 6 games, Eric Decker has 320 yards rec without Peyton.  Julius Thomas had 0 TDs before Peyton Manning came to town.

[newtogolf]

I'd say Peyton is missing one more Super Bowl before he gets the GOAT.  Statistics are deceptive, if Favre, Montana, Marino and Elway played in this era they would have had even better stats than they did.

[Golfingdad]

To me, its odd to argue that Brady is better because he won more superbowls, when he hasn't won in 10 years.  Does that mean Brady was better in 2001, when he relieved Bledsoe than when he threw 50 TDs in 2007? Of course not.

Great point.

Lastly, in 2008, Brady was hurt and the pats went 11-5.  When manning got hurt his team went from 10 wins to 2.  Then he went to the Broncos, who won 4 and 8 games before getting manning, but won 13 with him. .

Another.

Randy Moss was probably the 2nd best WR to ever play the game.  The only years Brady put up big numbers were when he had Moss.  Gronkowski might be the most talented recieving TE ever.

Demarious Thomas' rec yards tripled when Manning came.  Through 6 games, Eric Decker has 320 yards rec without Peyton.  Julius Thomas had 0 TDs before Peyton Manning came to town.

Yet people will still say "yeah but Peyton has Decker and the two Thomas'" without acknowledging the fact that without Peyton they didn't amount to much.

Peyton and Brady both make the players around them better ... but Peyton moreso.  I have a hunch that any team QB'd by Peyton Manning doesn't even need an offensive coordinator because he basically has that job covered as well.

He seems to understand the game better than anybody, prepares better than anybody, and has the physical skills (well, he ain't much of a runner, but everything else ;)) to match.  I also fully expect him to win more Super Bowls before all is said and done.

As a Charger fan it pains me to say that after each passing week, it seems more and more clear that the Broncos are, or should be, the SB favorite this season.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilmar2k

You forgot one important stat:

Manning: 11-12

Brady: 18-8

I get that win/loss is a team stat, but Brady's teams were never full of HOF'ers. Manning always had way more weapons than Tom did.

Not an important stat. There are 22 starters on an offense and defense. It's not the NBA, where there are only 5 starters, and wins are more related to a single player.

Brady had Moss/Welker/and possible the best O-Linemen ever, plus top notch defenses.

Brady's Super Bowl Defenses:

2001: #6

2003: #1

2004: #2

2007: #4

2011: #15

Peyton's Super Bowl Defenses:

2006: #23

2009: #8

2013: #22

So, all of Brady's 3 Super Bowl winning teams had a better defense than Manning had in any of his 3 super bowl appearances.

Brady's Patriots lost the Super Bowl with the #4 ranked NFL defense. Manning's Colts won it with the #23 ranked NFL defense.

I love how you discount stats that don't fit your argument.  The other 10 players on offense have something to do with Peyton's stats, don't they?  He didn't catch the ball too, did he?  Besides, Bart Starr is the best of all time.  The regular season means nothing.  Peyton doesn't even make the list

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/166734-the-10-greatest-postseason-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history

2) Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers .

Career postseason record: 8-1

Career postseason statistics: 130-213, 1753 yards, 15 TD, 3 INT; 104.8 passer rating

B TW, this is of course, tough and cheek.  It is such a semantic argument. Except the Bart Starr part!!!

[saevel25]

I love how you discount stats that don't fit your argument.  The other 10 players on offense have something to do with Peyton's stats, don't they?  He didn't catch the ball too, did he?  Besides, Bart Starr is the best of all time.  The regular season means nothing.  Peyton doesn't even make the list

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/166734-the-10-greatest-postseason-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history

2) Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers.

Career postseason record: 8-1

Career postseason statistics: 130-213, 1753 yards, 15 TD, 3 INT; 104.8 passer rating

BTW, this is of course, tough and cheek.  It is such a semantic argument.    Except the Bart Starr part!!!

, question was best QB NOT best Post-Season QB. Bart Starr had a near 1-1 TD to INT ratio. His Passer Rating 20 points lower on his career. Sorry, but NO!