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Posted

Golf Channel's doing something like this, so I got the idea…

What's the scariest hole you have played (ideally one you play regularly)?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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  • Moderator
Posted

My last league had a Par 3 that was between 190 and 210 depending on tee placement from the back tees.  There is marsh short, a dirt path and woods rights, heavy rough left, long grass behind the green and a trap long and right.  There was also a tree just to the right of the green in front.  Basically you had to hit the green or instant bogey.

Here is the view from the middle tees at about 160.  The back tees are further left and behind.  This is early spring so the grass behind the hole hasn't grown in.  There is a steep drop off in front of the green with about 4 paces to the marsh.  If you are short of the green, you will likely go into the marsh.  You can't see the ridge in the middle of the green, but basically a bunker shot is going to want to run off the front of the green if you hit into the middle.  Most of the green is around 3% except the top tier (back right) and bottom right flatter area at 2%.  The ridge is 4-5%.

If it is windy, the wind is usually in your face in spring.  From the middle tees, it is a much easier hole.  7 or 6 Iron or 5 if windy.  From the backs tees, it is a 3H to 3W depending on wind for me.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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Posted

Any hole that requires a precise carry number, to get over a water hazard, in good shape, will always give me more mental fatigue than any other type of shot. The toughest one for me would be something like a 200 yard carry over water, while having to land on the green for a chance at a needed birdie.  It matters little which course this type of hole shows up on.

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

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Posted

Mine is actually a fairly straight forward par four.  There are trees right, and a fairly decent drop off and then OB left.  The landing area (off the tee) is really not that tight, but after scoring poorly on this hole a few times, it has got into my head.  Again, the landing area is big enough, but I always seem to push it into the trees right, or hook it left into the drop off or OB.

After the tee shot, the hole is actually fairly easy.  I can't really hit a shorter club off of the tee either.  The hole plays 400 yards, so I need all I can get with the driver.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

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Posted

#2 at Timacuan, a local course here, outside of Orlando.

Only about 400 yards from the tees we play, 6,600 yards or so, but needs to very precise shots or you're toast.  The red line reflects a 240ish yard drive and 160ish yard approach.

Anything much right of the landing spot indicated feeds hard to the water.  A pull off the tee brings the water through the fairway into play and of course, the further left from the landing spot indicated, the longer the approach, also over water.....and almost always into a prevailing wind.

For the approach, OB is right.  There's a bit of a bail-out short of the green, but it's very narrow.  Fairly steep drop-offs to collection areas surround the green so anything missing the green is going to leave a nasty little pitch off of a very tight lie, with either the water, or OB ready to catch anything a little thin.

4 is something to brag about, and 5 isn't a bad score at all.  Playing in a tournament, I watched a pretty solid 6 hcp take a 10......and he had to make a bit of a putt to do it.

I know a couple of pretty good golfers who hesitate to play the course, just because of this hole.  Nothing unfair about it.....just a good golf hole, albeit scary as hell early in the round!

  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

My "scary" hole right now is hole number 5, par 5 at Trenton Ga. Shouldn't be that hard but it is for me.

Funny thing is that it looks very benign from above. The steep slope up the side of the ridge for the entire hole combined with almost guaranteed lost ball woods off of the fairway and severely sloping green give me little chance of not messing something up. If I par that one I'm probably having a really good day.

I used to always mess up the tee shot but now I usually wait to mess up the third shot from 100 yards with the green on top of the ridge above me.

Hard for me to believe that a par 5 is my hardest hole since I'm disappointed with pars on all of the other par 5s I play.


Posted

#2 at Timacuan, a local course here, outside of Orlando.

Only about 400 yards from the tees we play, 6,600 yards or so, but needs to very precise shots or you're toast.  The red line reflects a 240ish yard drive and 160ish yard approach.

Anything much right of the landing spot indicated feeds hard to the water.  A pull off the tee brings the water through the fairway into play and of course, the further left from the landing spot indicated, the longer the approach, also over water.....and almost always into a prevailing wind.

For the approach, OB is right.  There's a bit of a bail-out short of the green, but it's very narrow.  Fairly steep drop-offs to collection areas surround the green so anything missing the green is going to leave a nasty little pitch off of a very tight lie, with either the water, or OB ready to catch anything a little thin.

4 is something to brag about, and 5 isn't a bad score at all.  Playing in a tournament, I watched a pretty solid 6 hcp take a 10......and he had to make a bit of a putt to do it.

I know a couple of pretty good golfers who hesitate to play the course, just because of this hole.  Nothing unfair about it.....just a good golf hole, albeit scary as hell early in the round!

Cripes!!!

You can bet if I was playing there with you, and we were in a match, when I got to the tee and I saw the hole, I would look you straight in the eye without the hint of humor and say "good-good???"

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Posted

Cripes!!!

You can bet if I was playing there with you, and we were in a match, when I got to the tee and I saw the hole, I would look you straight in the eye without the hint of humor and say "good-good???"

And I'd probably agree!

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

Links at hiawatha #18 - it's a cavernous gorge forced carry.    On a really good drive, I can carry no more than 250-255 yds.   I play from the white tees and have NEVER made it over with very solid drives (always seem to just miss making it - granted my draw hurts me on this layout).    Next time I play there I will have no choice but to lay up way off the the side, and work like hell to even make bogie.   I can't think of a more unfair hole for guys that typically play 6000 yds.

John

Fav LT Quote ... "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"

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Posted

#2 at Timacuan, a local course here, outside of Orlando.

Only about 400 yards from the tees we play, 6,600 yards or so, but needs to very precise shots or you're toast.  The red line reflects a 240ish yard drive and 160ish yard approach.

Anything much right of the landing spot indicated feeds hard to the water.  A pull off the tee brings the water through the fairway into play and of course, the further left from the landing spot indicated, the longer the approach, also over water.....and almost always into a prevailing wind.

For the approach, OB is right.  There's a bit of a bail-out short of the green, but it's very narrow.  Fairly steep drop-offs to collection areas surround the green so anything missing the green is going to leave a nasty little pitch off of a very tight lie, with either the water, or OB ready to catch anything a little thin.

4 is something to brag about, and 5 isn't a bad score at all.  Playing in a tournament, I watched a pretty solid 6 hcp take a 10......and he had to make a bit of a putt to do it.

I know a couple of pretty good golfers who hesitate to play the course, just because of this hole.  Nothing unfair about it.....just a good golf hole, albeit scary as hell early in the round!

Yikes, that gives me chest pain just looking at the aerial view ...

John

Fav LT Quote ... "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"

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Posted
@Stretch will know the hole I'm talking about. Hopkinton Country Club in Hopkinton, MA. 5th hole is a par 3, from the back tees it's about 235 or so. Shoft-left is a pond, long is a steep drop-off, there's a bunker short-right, long-right has some overhanging trees. The only safe spots are just short and in the middle, and on the green (which isn't that big). Throughout high school I probably played it 30 times. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've hit the green, and that wasn't even from the tips.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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  • Moderator
Posted

Scariest hole on a course I used to play on a regular basis was the 16th hole at the Farms Golf Club. 220 yard par 3 over water to a visually intimidating green. Course was designed by Pete Dye. A ball that lands 5 yards left of the blue line and short of the green will probably go in the water. There only bail out is short of the right bunker, even if you miss the green pin high right you're pitching onto a downslope.

I actually played it short of the bunker in a match once, I was one up, my opponent teed off first and pulled it into the water. I won the hole ;-)

Scariest hole I've ever played was the 18th at Doral. It was my first college tournament and the weather was bad, lots of wind and rain. Made a bogey and a par during the first day, both second shots from about 200 yards out.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted

I play some easy courses regularly, so I don't have a hole that really scares me.

The two scariest holes I ever played were TPC Sawgrass #18, and Firestone North #17

TPC #18, long sweeping to the left par 4. Just a scary tee shot. With how the hole bends around the lake, you really can't help but aim more right than you need to. My tee shot ended up in those trees through the fairway :whistle: . Then you have the 2nd shot, which isn't no joke either.

If you want to get really freaked out, stand on the tee box they use for the PGA Tour players. TPC has that area blocked off with some netting to keep people from hitting back there. You stand back there and I just can't imagine a comfortable shot. You either fade the ball off the water, or you have to draw it towards the water.

Firestone North #17

180 yards, down hill to a peninsula green. Not to mention that it about 10-15 yards downhill, and it is only 35 yards deep, and the green is slightly elevated so there are banks that kick the ball towards the water.

Just a very scary shot.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

I play some easy courses regularly, so I don't have a hole that really scares me.

The two scariest holes I ever played were TPC Sawgrass #18, and Firestone North #17

TPC #18, long sweeping to the left par 4. Just a scary tee shot. With how the hole bends around the lake, you really can't help but aim more right than you need to. My tee shot ended up in those trees through the fairway . Then you have the 2nd shot, which isn't no joke either.

If you want to get really freaked out, stand on the tee box they use for the PGA Tour players. TPC has that area blocked off with some netting to keep people from hitting back there. You stand back there and I just can't imagine a comfortable shot. You either fade the ball off the water, or you have to draw it towards the water.

Firestone North #17

180 yards, down hill to a peninsula green. Not to mention that it about 10-15 yards downhill, and it is only 35 yards deep, and the green is slightly elevated so there are banks that kick the ball towards the water.

Just a very scary shot.

Yeah, Sawgrass #18 is a really tough/scary hole unless you're just going to bail out and play it as a par-5.  Much tougher than #17 IMHO......though you can probably make a monster score on 17 easier than 18 if it gets in your head!

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

Yeah, Sawgrass #18 is a really tough/scary hole unless you're just going to bail out and play it as a par-5.  Much tougher than #17 IMHO......though you can probably make a monster score on 17 easier than 18 if it gets in your head!

When you are on number 16, and view 17 from the side it looks intimidating. When you are on the tee and you have a short iron in your hand, the green is tiered, it really just looks inviting. Though I hit a horrible shot and bounced it off the side of the bunker into the water. I never really felt worried about the shot.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

home course, Ancil Hoffman GC.  Number 16.  Dogleg right (White 402, Blue 422, Gold 497).  This is the view from the tee.  Yes, that is a very BIG tree in the middle of the fairway (175 yards from the white tee, 200 from the blues).  To get around the dogleg you need to be about 45 yards beyond the tree, which precludes going left of the tree unless playing for bogey. Notice the gap between the tree and trees on the right.  This photo does not show that the trees are thick on both sides of the fairway.  I've birdied it once in 20 years.  A few pars.  I would guess my personal stroke average is close to 6.  Weird thing is, I kind of like it!

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  • Moderator
Posted

Scariest hole I regularly play.

My home course, Ancil Hoffman GC.  Number 16.  Dogleg right (White 402, Blue 422, Gold 497).  This is the view from the tee.  Yes, that is a very BIG tree in the middle of the fairway (175 yards from the white tee, 200 from the blues).  To get around the dogleg you need to be about 45 yards beyond the tree, which precludes going left of the tree unless playing for bogey. Notice the gap between the tree and trees on the right.  This photo does not show that the trees are thick on both sides of the fairway.  I've birdied it once in 20 years.  A few pars.  I would guess my personal stroke average is close to 6.  Weird thing is, I kind of like it!

I've played that hole, great course.

Mike McLoughlin

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  • Moderator
Posted

Scariest hole I regularly play.

My home course, Ancil Hoffman GC.  Number 16.  Dogleg right (White 402, Blue 422, Gold 497).  This is the view from the tee.  Yes, that is a very BIG tree in the middle of the fairway (175 yards from the white tee, 200 from the blues).  To get around the dogleg you need to be about 45 yards beyond the tree, which precludes going left of the tree unless playing for bogey. Notice the gap between the tree and trees on the right.  This photo does not show that the trees are thick on both sides of the fairway.  I've birdied it once in 20 years.  A few pars.  I would guess my personal stroke average is close to 6.  Weird thing is, I kind of like it!

I would just aim for the tree.  I can't hit anything I aim for with the driver!

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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  • Posts

    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
    • Wordle 1,668 3/6 🟨🟨🟩⬜⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Wordle 1,668 3/6 🟨🟩🟨🟨⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩 Should have got it in two, but I have music on my brain.
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