Is "ready" golf against the rules?

[Fourputt]

I take a slightly different view on this issue. Although there is no penalty(except in some specific cases) for playing out of turn, Rule 10 specifies the order of play and IMO players have a RIGHT to play in that order. If there is a blanket agreement to ignore the proper order of play, what is a player to do? I have been in situations where a group of 4 in stroke play has played by honor on every tee and all of a sudden when we get to a par 3 one of the players says, "Shall we play ready golf?". It's always the one who has the honor but decided s(he) doesn't want to be ready!

Whenever someone suggests "ready golf" to me I answer, "No, but let's all be ready when it's our turn".

Many years ago there was a discussion on another site. After a lengthy debate an opinion was sought from the USGA.  In light of the increased concerns about pace of play the year 2000 reply might no longer  be valid, but the answer given was that such an "agreement" to play ready golf was a violation of 1-3 and DQ all parties to that agreement.

How would you treat it if you were in a tournament club like I was in for 22 years.  We had a club pace of play policy which was more stringent than the course policy, and we enforced it and assessed penalties for groups that failed to comply.  If a group fell a bit behind due to a ball search or the like, they had no choice but to play as fast as was comfortable to catch back up, and that meant ignoring any such niceties as honor or order of play.

In my opinion, any player in stroke play who demands proper order of play is too uptight to be anyone I particularly want to play with.  I have never cared much for fussy golfers (and I say that being one who strictly plays by the rules 95% of time).  I can barely see a point if it's a stroke competition, and I see no point at all if it isn't.

[ghalfaire]

Many years ago there was a discussion on another site. After a lengthy debate an opinion was sought from the USGA.  In light of the increased concerns about pace of play the year 2000 reply might no longer  be valid, but the answer given was that such an "agreement" to play ready golf was a violation of 1-3 and DQ all parties to that agreement.

So if Rule 10 is a real rule, and it is or it would not be in the book,  then the answer to the question is you can't agree to ignore the order of play and play ready golf without being in violation of Rule 1.  So the answer to the OP is an agreement to play ready golf is in violation of the ROG.

How about some consistency?  I see where this USGA site advocates "ready golf", but it is clearly against the rules. http://www.usga.org/MicroSite.aspx?id=21474856307

[iacas]

So if Rule 10 is a real rule, and it is or it would not be in the book,  then the answer to the question is you can't agree to ignore the order of play and play ready golf without being in violation of Rule 1.  So the answer to the OP is an agreement to play ready golf is in violation of the ROG.

Yes, it's a violation, but like some etiquette violations, you're only penalized if it's severe.

IOW, it's not unprecedented to have a "violation" go without a penalty.

[Lihu]

I take a slightly different view on this issue. Although there is no penalty(except in some specific cases) for playing out of turn, Rule 10 specifies the order of play and IMO players have a RIGHT to play in that order. If there is a blanket agreement to ignore the proper order of play, what is a player to do? I have been in situations where a group of 4 in stroke play has played by honor on every tee and all of a sudden when we get to a par 3 one of the players says, "Shall we play ready golf?". It's always the one who has the honor but decided s(he) doesn't want to be ready!

Whenever someone suggests "ready golf" to me I answer, "No, but let's all be ready when it's our turn".

Many years ago there was a discussion on another site. After a lengthy debate an opinion was sought from the USGA.  In light of the increased concerns about pace of play the year 2000 reply might no longer  be valid, but the answer given was that such an "agreement" to play ready golf was a violation of 1-3 and DQ all parties to that agreement.

Welcome to this site.

I like your response. It makes the most sense. I've been playing many rounds by this method and my group is usually right behind the group in front.

[Wendy Dominick]

These two Decisions have some relevance to this issue:

33-8/7

Local Rule Requiring Player to Play Out of Turn on Putting Green

Q.A proposed Local Rule would require that, on the putting green, a player must play continuously until he has holed out. Would such a Local Rule be acceptable?

A.No. Such a Local Rule would modify Rules 10-1b and 10-2b , which require that the ball farther from the hole shall be played first.

10-2b/1

Competitor Objects to Fellow-Competitor Putting Out of Turn

Q.In stroke play, A's ball is 40 feet from the hole and B's is 30 feet away. A putts and his ball comes to rest four feet from the hole. A prepares to hole out before B putts. B objects and claims that under the Rules (Rule 10-2b ) he is entitled to putt before A.

Although putting out of turn in stroke play is generally condoned, should the Committee allow A to putt out of turn in these circumstances?

A.If A had lifted his ball when the objection was lodged, the Committee should rule that A is not entitled to putt out of turn, in view of Rule 10-2b .

If A had not lifted his ball at the time the objection was lodged, the answer depends on whether B would require A to lift his ball under Rule 22 (Ball Assisting or Interfering with Play) before he (B) putts. If so, the Committee should rule that A is entitled to play out of turn, provided he does so without first lifting his ball, i.e., Rule 22-2 permits a competitor in stroke play who is required to lift his ball because of interference to "play first rather than lift."

If B would not require A to lift his ball before he (B) putts, the Committee should rule that A is not entitled to putt out of turn.

Although condoning putting out of turn in stroke play may be questionable in view of the explicit language of Rule 10-2b , there is no penalty for doing so (Rule 10-2c ), it is not in conflict with the intent of Rule 10-2b , and it may tend to speed play. Accordingly, it is considered that the practice should not be discouraged.

[iacas]

Although condoning putting out of turn in stroke play may be questionable in view of the explicit language of Rule 10-2b, there is no penalty for doing so (Rule 10-2c), it is not in conflict with the intent of Rule 10-2b, and it may tend to speed play. Accordingly, it is considered that the practice should not be discouraged.

Just wanted to highlight that part.

[Wendy Dominick]

I'm all in favor of improving pace of play, and tapping in short putts really helps. There are many other times when playing out of turn makes sense. I'm just saying that a blanket agreement to play out of turn is against the Rules.

[Fourputt]

I'm all in favor of improving pace of play, and tapping in short putts really helps. There are many other times when playing out of turn makes sense. I'm just saying that a blanket agreement to play out of turn is against the Rules.

The people I play with play ready golf.  When a player is ready to play and he isn't interfering with or holding up another player, regardless of who is away or who has honor, then he should play.  Simply being ready when it's your turn can still lead to unnecessary delays.  If I'm ready and it isn't my turn, but the player whose turn it is is not ready, then I'm going to play.

Agreeing to play ready golf is not the same as agreeing to play out of turn to gain some sort of advantage, and it isn't really agreeing to waive a rule.  It is simply agreeing to be as efficient as possible in our play so as to not create any road blocks on the course.  If we are waiting on most approach shots anyway (which is usually the case), then we play in proper order.

[iacas]

Agreeing to play ready golf is not the same as agreeing to play out of turn to gain some sort of advantage, and it isn't really agreeing to waive a rule.  It is simply agreeing to be as efficient as possible in our play so as to not create any road blocks on the course.  If we are waiting on most approach shots anyway (which is usually the case), then we play in proper order.

I was gonna play a bit of devil's advocate, @Wendy Dominick , but that's how I'd have done it right there. I don't agree that agreeing to play ready golf constitutes agreeing to waive a Rule of Golf. The Rule has a condition built in to allow out-of-order play, and the condition that an advantage was gained is required to say you've broken the Rule.

[ghalfaire]

Agreeing to play ready golf is not the same as agreeing to play out of turn to gain some sort of advantage, and it isn't really agreeing to waive a rule.  It is simply agreeing to be as efficient as possible in our play so as to not create any road blocks on the course.  If we are waiting on most approach shots anyway (which is usually the case), then we play in proper order.

I have to also agree with this.  Mostly because of the USGA web site that encourages ready golf and so one has to conclude it isn't against the rules to play ready golf.

No I am not trying to be the last post.

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Not here (yet). But, that's most certainly going on in the "dq-based-upon-markers-card" thread down under.

I think we are almost there, last post wins!

The welcome arrival of Wendy here has redirected what had become a thread of anecdotes back to the original question.

Wendy, thanks for joining!

[rogolf]

The welcome arrival of Wendy here has redirected what had become a thread of anecdotes back to the original question.

Wendy, thanks for joining!

Aye, welcome Wendy, and perhaps back on track!

[acerimusdux]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy Dominick

I'm all in favor of improving pace of play, and tapping in short putts really helps. There are many other times when playing out of turn makes sense. I'm just saying that a blanket agreement to play out of turn is against the Rules.

Not according to the USGA and R&A;:

Quote:

10-2c/2

Competitors in Stroke Play Agree to Play Out of Turn But Not for Purpose of Giving One of Them an Advantage

Q.In stroke play, A and B agree to play out of turn at the 10th hole to save time. There is no penalty under Rule 10-2c because they did not do so in order to give one of them an advantage. However, are they liable to disqualification under Rule 1-3 for agreeing to exclude the operation of Rule 10-2a or 10-2b as the case may be?

A.No. Rule 10-2c specifically governs and permits the procedure in stroke play.

It's only against the rules if you do it to give a player an advantage.

[Wendy Dominick]

Acer,

I'm aware there is no penalty on a case by case basis. In fact, it could even happen that players NEVER follow the correct order of play and wouldn't be penalized.

My argument that an AGREEMENT to "play ready golf" (not on a case by case basis) is an agreement to exclude the operation of Rule 10-2.

[Fourputt]

Acer,

I'm aware there is no penalty on a case by case basis. In fact, it could even happen that players NEVER follow the correct order of play and wouldn't be penalized.

My argument that an AGREEMENT to "play ready golf" (not on a case by case basis) is an agreement to exclude the operation of Rule 10-2.

I think that the decision quoted above your post applies equally to a single instance or to a general philosophy of play.  I don't see any breach of 1-3.  Maybe because I play my golf almost exclusively on public courses, often very busy courses, and ready golf is a simple fact of life.  If you play most of your golf at a club where the tee times are more spread out and the player pressure is less, then you may have the luxury of following rule 10 to the letter.  I simply don't see the necessity.

[phan52]

You'll have to explain that for me - in alternate shot there is only one ball in play for two partners.  In better ball games, where each partner has a ball in play, the balls may be played in the order the side (partners) consider best for their result(s).

Yeah, I believe that is what he meant. Plus, in match play, if you concede the putt to the one guy who is trying to show the line to his partner, pick it up and hand it to him. A given putt in match play may not be declined.

A player may concede his opponent’s next stroke at any time, provided the opponent’s ball is at rest. The opponent is considered to have holed out with his next stroke , and the ball may be removed by either side .

A concession may not be declined or withdrawn.

[saevel25]

Yeah, I believe that is what he meant. Plus, in match play, if you concede the putt to the one guy who is trying to show the line to his partner, pick it up and hand it to him. A given putt in match play may not be declined.

A player may concede his opponent’s next stroke at any time, provided the opponent’s ball is at rest. The opponent is considered to have holed out with his next stroke, and the ball may be removed by either side.

A concession may not be declined or withdrawn.

Just to clarify that more. That does not stop the player from then putting out if they wanted to. Unlike stroke play were you can not take practice putts on the green. In match play you can proceed to putt out even after the hole has been conceded.

2-4/6

Putting Out After Concession of Stroke

Rule 2-4 does not cover the question of whether a player may putt out after his next stroke has been conceded. A player incurs no penalty for holing out in such circumstances. However, if the act would be of assistance to a partner in a four-ball or best-ball match, the partner is, in equity (Rule 1-4), disqualified for the hole.

[acerimusdux]

I think that the decision quoted above your post applies equally to a single instance or to a general philosophy of play.  I don't see any breach of 1-3.

That's what I was thinking. But it might depend on what people mean by "ready golf". I'm not sure if it is clearly defined anywhere how to properly play "ready golf".

I think I'm with Wendy above, in that I prefer to play with people who know how to follow the rules on order of play, and simply be ready to hit when it's their turn. But with golfers who can do that, I have no problem playing "ready golf" either. That just means that occasionally, if someone isn't ready to hit for some reason, maybe they took the wrong club and had to go back to their bag, or they're looking for a ball lost in the woods, you go ahead and play. But it should be a case by case basis where it will clearly save time. But I think the default should still always be to observe the usual order of play, and pay attention and stay out of the way when someone else is away and addressing their ball ready to hit. And there is rarely reason to ignore order of play on the putting green, aside from allowing short tap-ins. So you aren't completely ignoring 10a/10b.

Trying to play "ready golf" though, with people who haven't even learned to properly follow the rules, can be a nightmare, and doesn't really save any time anyway. You can have people walking down the middle of the fairway when you are trying to hit, or even up on the green when you want to hit an approach shot, and not marking their ball and getting out of the way.

I guess to more experienced golfers, this may seem like common sense, but the more experienced golfers probably aren't the ones causing the long delays on the course, either.  With some of the duffers I've played with, I think it's better to make sure they learn to play in order first, before introducing the concept of "ready golf".  And if one player is particularly slow, then you have cause to rush that person some. Come on, let's go, it's your turn. No excuses.