Adjusting Forged vs. Cast Irons

[RFKFREAK]

It's my understanding that with forged irons, as your swing changes (hopefully improves), you can bring it in to a fitter and they can make changes to your clubs to adjust for the changes in your swing. Can the same be done with cast irons?

[newtogolf]

Forged irons can have their loft and lie adjusted with minimal risk of breaking where as most stores won't try to bend cast clubs beyond 1'

[RFKFREAK]

Forged irons can have their loft and lie adjusted with minimal risk of breaking where as most stores won't try to bend cast clubs beyond 1'

So then would it make sense for a high handicapper who expects to improve to get forged irons?

[jamo]

So then would it make sense for a high handicapper who expects to improve to get forged irons?

Not necessarily. If you get a static fitting at purchase, your dynamic characteristics aren't going to change that much as you get better. Your hands might be a little higher or lower at impact, but not a whole lot. If the new clubs you like happen to be cast, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[RFKFREAK]

Not necessarily. If you get a static fitting at purchase, your dynamic characteristics aren't going to change that much as you get better. Your hands might be a little higher or lower at impact, but not a whole lot. If the new clubs you like happen to be cast, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Well, it's more that I'm saving up for irons and on average, IIRC, forged irons cost more than cast irons so should my swing change as I improve, then I don't want to not be able to adjust them if needed.

So, I'm wondering if they won't make changes to cast irons then maybe I should spend more time saving and get forged irons.

[mvmac]

Can the same be done with cast irons?

Most name brand cast irons you can but fitters don't like to bend them because they're afraid they might break. For PING irons you can definitely get them bent, best to send them to Phoenix to do it.

I don't think it's a good idea to make the decision based on the off chance you'll have to get them adjusted down the line, I'd get fit now and go with what you like and hit the best.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="jamo" url="/t/78508/forged-cast-irons-question#post_1082608"] Not necessarily. If you get a static fitting at purchase, your dynamic characteristics aren't going to change that much as you get better. Your hands might be a little higher or lower at impact, but not a whole lot. If the new clubs you like happen to be cast, I wouldn't worry too much about it.[/QUOTE] Well, it's more that I'm saving up for irons and on average, IIRC, forged irons cost more than cast irons so should my swing change as I improve, then I don't want to not be able to adjust them if needed. So, I'm wondering if they won't make changes to cast irons then maybe I should spend more time saving and get forged irons.

the major neat thing about forged irons is that they are pounded when red hot. Like a blacksmith pounding red hot metal, packing it together densely with a heavy hammer. This allows the material to become dense, and thus for any given size head, heavier. Blades must then be smaller but as heavy as a cast head, which has been allowed to cool after casting without being made denser. The cast head can be made larger, and easier therefore to hit. It might be harder to divot or work the ball because of this larger size and shape. However, both heads attract a magnet and both weigh the same so the swingweight at the end of the shaft is then similiar. You choose your tool for the job you have. Do you want to work the ball or just hit it straight?

[WUTiger]

I don't think it's a good idea to make the decision based on the off chance you'll have to get them adjusted down the line, I'd get fit now and go with what you like and hit the best.

A teaching pro I have worked with has this advice: Get clubs for the swing you have right now, not the swing you might have in the future.

... You choose your tool for the job you have. Do you want to work the ball or just hit it straight?

TP, your remark needs a bit of explaining. Anyone who understands the golf swing can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any iron. If you want to add in flighting the ball up or down, then forged irons - which tend to be made for the swings of better golfers - might be useful.

But not all forged irons are Players clubs.  Consider the Nike VRS Forged (2012) and VRS Covert Forged (2014), both GI irons.

[trickyputt]

WU I did mean to trade on the idea a player tends to work on one thing at a time, and though there are always exceptions, the major quantity of club offerings that are cast are designed with a more straightforward and fun game in mind. Masochism comes later.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFKFREAK

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

Not necessarily. If you get a static fitting at purchase, your dynamic characteristics aren't going to change that much as you get better. Your hands might be a little higher or lower at impact, but not a whole lot. If the new clubs you like happen to be cast, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Well, it's more that I'm saving up for irons and on average, IIRC, forged irons cost more than cast irons so should my swing change as I improve, then I don't want to not be able to adjust them if needed.

So, I'm wondering if they won't make changes to cast irons then maybe I should spend more time saving and get forged irons.

the major neat thing about forged irons is that they are pounded when red hot. Like a blacksmith pounding red hot metal, packing it together densely with a heavy hammer. This allows the material to become dense, and thus for any given size head, heavier. Blades must then be smaller but as heavy as a cast head, which has been allowed to cool after casting without being made denser. The cast head can be made larger, and easier therefore to hit. It might be harder to divot or work the ball because of this larger size and shape. However, both heads attract a magnet and both weigh the same so the swingweight at the end of the shaft is then similiar. You choose your tool for the job you have. Do you want to work the ball or just hit it straight?

I think the real reason blades are heavier is that they lack the cavities and all that plastic inside them. The density of the materials are probably going to be same depending mainly upon the additives used to make the specific type of steel from iron.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37161770/Table-for-Density-of-Metal

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/KarenSutherland.shtml

[joekelly]

@Lihu .  A bit out of range of my interests, but what kind of plastics will we find in a cavity iron and where are these plastics hiding?  Who makes iron heads with plastics inside?  I hope you are not referring to those tiny plastic badges or painted words we see on the surface of some irons.  I have seen irons with small rubber bits glued on the back surface but the effect of those must be very marginal.

[trickyputt]

Lihu, I agree about the design and though I was on a part of the design component and you brought up the major influence of shape, lets also go to molecular tension both inside and outside the club as it affects feel between annealed and cold worked metals. The latter feeling harsher and harder.

[Lihu]

@Lihu .  A bit out of range of my interests, but what kind of plastics will we find in a cavity iron and where are these plastics hiding?  Who makes iron heads with plastics inside?  I hope you are not referring to those tiny plastic badges or painted words we see on the surface of some irons.  I have seen irons with small rubber bits glued on the back surface but the effect of those must be very marginal.

Yeah, the shape and plastic badges allow for pretty bulky looking designs. [quote name="trickyputt" url="/t/78508/forged-cast-irons-question#post_1082839"]Lihu, I agree about the design and though I was on a part of the design component and you brought up the major influence of shape, lets also go to molecular tension both inside and outside the club as it affects feel between annealed and cold worked metals. The latter feeling harsher and harder.[/quote] The molecular structure is what I'm talking about. There isn't a whole lot of compressibility in iron. You would need a lot more pressure to compress the steel than a 100 ton press to make more difference than putting in impurities like carbon. That said, if you can align the impurities somehow it could strengthen the steel. Such as found in many famous swords. Damascus steel is one of the most famous.

[vangator]

I only play cast clubs. I like the harder face surfaces of the iron. Won't wear as fast. The buttery feel of forged is really nice but there's a trade off. I've toyed with the idea of getting the Ping K15 irons because they have a titanium face insert, so face wear will be minimum. Unless you're a very competent, well practice golfer, you want to stay away from workability. The problem with workability is that you work it when you want to hit it straight. Straight is good. I have cast clubs that I can work pretty well when needed.

[Shorty]

You choose your tool for the job you have. Do you want to work the ball or just hit it straight?

Oh no!!!!!

Here we go again.

"Working the ball" (vomit) has NOTHING to do with the clubs you use.

Where do people get this nonsense from? Seriously

[Jakester23]

It's my understanding that with forged irons, as your swing changes (hopefully improves), you can bring it in to a fitter and they can make changes to your clubs to adjust for the changes in your swing.

Can the same be done with cast irons?

Honestly just get the ones you think look the nicest in your price range and make sure you get fit.  All the manufactures make good quality clubs and most have both forged and cast models.  I don't think you would be disappointed with anything currently on the market. Im sure at some point as your swing improves and time goes by you will want a shiny new set of irons anyways so I wouldn't worry so much about if having them adjusted.  Let us know what you end up doing.

[Jakester23]

Oh no!!!!!

Here we go again.

"Working the ball" (vomit) has NOTHING to do with the clubs you use.

Where do people get this nonsense from? Seriously

So your saying if I go buy a nice set of forged blades I won't hit perfect 5 yard draws?

[Shorty]

So your saying if I go buy a nice set of forged blades I won't hit perfect 5 yard draws?

LOL.

I'm saying that people have to stop giving newcomers to the game misinformation.