Poll: Did Ernie Els ground his club in a hazard?

[Ferguson]

I think he did it rtight at second .10... I think when asked his first option and thought was "I have never grounded a club to my memory and certainly didn't here.  I bet he is wrestling with it and his first reaction. He reached down twice and it sure looks like the first time was to push grass down, all without knowing he did it. I dont think he did it on purpose and it was just a reaction after the first whiff... With that said, of course he didn't, he is Ernie Els, "a major winner" and how dare we ever even suspect such a thing.

I’m not pointing the finger at Ernie, but it’s been a long time since he’s played at a consistently high level, and the high risk shot doesn’t seem like his deal. Why didn’t he just bump it out and try for bogey? Although in the twilight of a great career, he never seemed like a high risk player before, very weird. Wonder if he’s into a damn bookie or something? It’s just not adding up for me at this point.

[jbishop15]

I’m not pointing the finger at Ernie, but it’s been a long time since he’s played at a consistently high level, and the high risk shot doesn’t seem like his deal. Why didn’t he just bump it out and try for bogey? Although in the twilight of a great career, he never seemed like a high risk player before, very weird. Wonder if he’s into a damn bookie or something? It’s just not adding up for me at this point.

There's nothing to add up; this isn't an international conspiracy. The video is inconclusive, Els has zero history of cheating, there's nothing strange about this incident.

[cubdog]

Wonder if he’s into a damn bookie or something? It’s just not adding up for me at this point.

I had a long response ready to post but in the end decided Ferguson is not worth anymore of my time or effort. Anyone who would label Ernie Els, let alone Casey Martin, a cheat is a troll of the worst kind. I'm done feeding him. I hope he just goes away.

[Ferguson]

Again, I never called Ernie a cheater. Just questioning the judgment in regard to the events of this past Sunday. Let’s back up to the US OPEN in 2000 when Ernie took a “free” lift and place because he thought a member of the media stepped on his ball. The media was at least 25 feet to the north of his position. Big Ernie had no chance of winning and there was no focus on anyone else except for The Tiger in command by 15 shots. I was paying attention though and I remember the whole thing going down. Now fast forward to this past Sunday and we’ve got ourselves a conundrum, at least for me.

[turtleback]

I had a long response ready to post but in the end decided Ferguson is not worth anymore of my time or effort. Anyone who would label Ernie Els, let alone Casey Martin, a cheat is a troll of the worst kind. I'm done feeding him. I hope he just goes away.

And let us not forget that Ferguson also threw Lee Janzen under the cheating bus.  Making a mistake and suffering the penalty is not cheating.  Particularly when it is viewed by a rules official who also does not realize a rule was violated.

The poster is a bigger mess than the town.

[Ferguson]

And let us not forget that Ferguson also threw Lee Jantzen under the cheating bus.  Making a mistake and suffering the penalty is not cheating.  Particularly when it is viewed by a rules official who also does not realize a rule was violated. The poster is a bigger mess than the town.

"Two-time U.S. Open champion Lee Janzen belatedly missed the cut at the 101st U.S. Open when he was assessed a two-stroke penalty Saturday morning for a violation observed early Friday morning. Janzen went to bed Friday night believing his 5-over 145 score was good enough to make the cut, but he was informed 17 minutes before his scheduled 10:02 tee time that he violated Rule 13-2 in the Rules of Golf. The two-stroke penalty pushed him to 7 over, a shot above the cut. Before resuming his rain-suspended first round Friday morning, Janzen used a towel to wipe the dew where he had marked his ball in the ninth fairway. He replaced the ball and played. A USGA rules official saw it but did not recognize it immediately as a violation. The rules official reported the incident before the start of the third round. Janzen said the dew was swept around every spot but his marked ball. He was disturbed the official didn't say something immediately." Janzen knowingly broke the rules when he improved his lie. Why in hell would he towel off the grass during this particular shot only and not every shot with dew or water? These guys play dumb when they are clearly not that dumb.

[saevel25]

Janzen knowingly broke the rules when he improved his lie. Why in hell would he towel off the grass during this particular shot only and not every shot with dew or water?

These guys play dumb when they are clearly not that dumb.

That is Janzen not Ernie. They are two different people. That line of logic doesn't hold water, move on.

[Lihu]

I can't tell from the video, but it looks like he's moving the club head up and down a bit just past the tuft of grass blocking our view. So, I'm guessing he didn't "improve his lie", but hovered.

I will say that I'm glad I watched him shoot a snowman with a 40+ foot putt save on that hole. Makes me feel a little better about the triples and doubles I got recently. . .

Sorry Ernie (if you happen to read this), but you really made me feel better by watching you play this hole. . .

[Ferguson]

I can't tell from the video, but it looks like he's moving the club head up and down a bit just past the tuft of grass blocking our view. So, I'm guessing he didn't "improve his lie", but hovered. I will say that I'm glad I watched him shoot a snowman with a 40+ foot putt save on that hole. Makes me feel a little better about the triples and doubles I got recently. . . Sorry Ernie (if you happen to read this), but you really made me feel better by watching you play this hole. . .:beer:

The putt was amazing, yes.

[boogielicious]

Stay on topic please.

[Shorty]

Ferguson is comfortable in his skin – que sera, sera.

Now that you've referred to yourself in the third person, the picture is complete.

It makes me think that person in your avatar actually may be you.

You make wild accusations about people but can't back them up. It's Ok to say that you think x and this is why, but instead you throw a demonstrably untrue claim out there and run away.

Not only that, you then use the lame "I call it as I see it" line to excuse your prejudiced and ill-formed "opinions" and have the gall to talk about ethics and morality.

[dkolo]

I can't tell from the video, but it looks like he's moving the club head up and down a bit just past the tuft of grass blocking our view. So, I'm guessing he didn't "improve his lie", but hovered.

.

Yes, I've been watching the video over and over, and all I can see is the club head going back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back, and to the left. Haha

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Ferguson is comfortable in his skin – que sera, sera.

Now that you've referred to yourself in the third person, the picture is complete.

It makes me think that person in your avatar actually may be you.

You make wild accusations about people but can't back them up. It's Ok to say that you think x and this is why, but instead you throw a demonstrably untrue claim out there and run away.

Not only that, you then use the lame "I call it as I see it" line to excuse your prejudiced and ill-formed "opinions" and have the gall to talk about ethics and morality.

He's been restricted from the thread for continually baiting posters to go off topic with his rants.  Let's move back to the thread topic please.

[Fourputt]

Look that the words being used in this thread: inconclusive, malicious, cheating – you would think this was a political thread.

I have no problem with Ernie, just his judgment - same thing goes for Casey Martin and Fred Biletnikoff.

I just call it as I see it.

4+ other people agree with me, and I’m guessing more than a bakers’ dozen at this website just don’t want to admit Ernie may have been in the wrong. There is something to be said about ethics and morality – if you think it is wrong – it is wrong, period. What drives me nuts is how Ernie puts the club down and resets his footing, almost building a stance for pete’s sake, then looks around again. The second move down with the club, before he looks around and before the marshal shows up is most suspect.

Nothing in golf should be inconclusive.

Ferguson is comfortable in his skin – que sera, sera.

Boy, you are some kind of work!  Now he built a stance too.  What's next?  A foot wedge?  Nobody is saying that the ruling was inconclusive, NOBODY!!  We are saying that the video coverage shows no proof of a breach.  NONE!!  Video evidence is often inconclusive, in golf and in a court of law.  What is not inconclusive is you heading down the trolls path.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

I’m not pointing the finger at Ernie, but it’s been a long time since he’s played at a consistently high level, and the high risk shot doesn’t seem like his deal. Why didn’t he just bump it out and try for bogey? Although in the twilight of a great career, he never seemed like a high risk player before, very weird. Wonder if he’s into a damn bookie or something? It’s just not adding up for me at this point.

There's nothing to add up; this isn't an international conspiracy. The video is inconclusive, Els has zero history of cheating, there's nothing strange about this incident.

Yeah, nothing here but a conspiracy theory.  I'd imagine that Fergie is donning his tin foil hat as we speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

And let us not forget that Ferguson also threw Lee Jantzen under the cheating bus.  Making a mistake and suffering the penalty is not cheating.  Particularly when it is viewed by a rules official who also does not realize a rule was violated.

The poster is a bigger mess than the town.

"Two-time U.S. Open champion Lee Janzen belatedly missed the cut at the 101st U.S. Open when he was assessed a two-stroke penalty Saturday morning for a violation observed early Friday morning. Janzen went to bed Friday night believing his 5-over 145 score was good enough to make the cut, but he was informed 17 minutes before his scheduled 10:02 tee time that he violated Rule 13-2 in the Rules of Golf. The two-stroke penalty pushed him to 7 over, a shot above the cut. Before resuming his rain-suspended first round Friday morning, Janzen used a towel to wipe the dew where he had marked his ball in the ninth fairway. He replaced the ball and played. A USGA rules official saw it but did not recognize it immediately as a violation. The rules official reported the incident before the start of the third round. Janzen said the dew was swept around every spot but his marked ball. He was disturbed the official didn't say something immediately."

Janzen knowingly broke the rules when he improved his lie. Why in hell would he towel off the grass during this particular shot only and not every shot with dew or water?

These guys play dumb when they are clearly not that dumb.

So, you were in Janzen's head and reading his mind at the time?  How else did you know what he was thinking?  I thought the foil hat blocked out radiated thoughts.

I can't tell from the video, but it looks like he's moving the club head up and down a bit just past the tuft of grass blocking our view. So, I'm guessing he didn't "improve his lie", but hovered.

I will say that I'm glad I watched him shoot a snowman with a 40+ foot putt save on that hole. Makes me feel a little better about the triples and doubles I got recently. . .

Sorry Ernie (if you happen to read this), but you really made me feel better by watching you play this hole. . .

Actually he made an 8, didn't he?  Triple bogey anyway. and since he was hitting 3W for his second, that seems like a par 5 to me.  I might have made the same score as he did, but not from making a rather stupid mistake in judgement.  For me it would have been dumping my 4th shot into the lake after nibbling my way around that long curving fairway, then taking at least 3 more to get down after the drop.

[Golfingdad]

Actually he made an 8, didn't he?  Triple bogey anyway. and since he was hitting 3W for his second, that seems like a par 5 to me.  I might have made the same score as he did, but not from making a rather stupid mistake in judgement.  For me it would have been dumping my 4th shot into the lake after nibbling my way around that long curving fairway, then taking at least 3 more to get down after the drop.

Isn't that what @Lihu said?  A "snowman."

I would not have made an 8 on that hole because with the amount of water on that course, I'd have run out of balls by the time I reached that tee.  I'm glad I don't play golf in Florida.

It's actually a fascinating hole because those guys can bomb a drive that carries 300 yards, hit the fairway, and still have anywhere from 210 to about 270 for their second shot depending on how much they want to try and chop off.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Actually he made an 8, didn't he?  Triple bogey anyway. and since he was hitting 3W for his second, that seems like a par 5 to me.  I might have made the same score as he did, but not from making a rather stupid mistake in judgement.  For me it would have been dumping my 4th shot into the lake after nibbling my way around that long curving fairway, then taking at least 3 more to get down after the drop.

Isn't that what @Lihu said?  A "snowman."

I would not have made an 8 on that hole because with the amount of water on that course, I'd have run out of balls by the time I reached that tee.  I'm glad I don't play golf in Florida.

It's actually a fascinating hole because those guys can bomb a drive that carries 300 yards, hit the fairway, and still have anywhere from 210 to about 270 for their second shot depending on how much they want to try and chop off.

He must have edited it after I hit the multi button but before I typed my response and I didn't re-read it.  It originally said 7, not snowman.

[Golfingdad]

He must have edited it after I hit the multi button but before I typed my response and I didn't re-read it.  It originally said 7, not snowman.

Gotta keep an eye on @Lihu ... he's sneaky like that.

[Lihu]

Gotta keep an eye on @Lihu ... he's sneaky like that.

Actually, it originally stated 7+.

I was in the process of watching the video and didn't expect that he would make that putt for the snowman save. . .