Improving but struggling with low spin driver.

[Jeremie Boop]

Outside of a few struggles I've seen some pretty steady improvements overall to my scores recently. I'm still struggling a bit with the driver though. Just out of curiosity I took my old VRII Pro driver and the BioCell+ out at the same time since I had room in the bag for a 14th club to test if I'm suffering from lack of forgiveness. The results have been a bit interesting. On good hits the BC+ definitely goes further, but on bad hits it does seem like I'm being penalized more. So, even though the longest drives are with the cobra, game golf shows that my "typical" shot with the Nike is actually 12 yards longer.... So, I'm sort of stuck in a quandary... Do I keep using the Cobra and wait for my swing to come around and reduce the mis-hits, do I switch back to my Nike for the added forgiveness, or do I get rid of both and get a different newer driver that will still have some added length but also has added forgiveness.... I feel like going with the "low spin" type driver was a mistake at my skill level and any advice would be appreciated.

[Hardballs]

Well I went for low spin/higher loft and it worked well for me!

[Jeremie Boop]

Well I went for low spin/higher loft and it worked well for me!

I definitely get my longest drives with it, but unless I can improve my consistency with it the bad drives detract from the awesome 300 yarders. I know some people who had low spin drivers that went back to more of the standard or more forgiving drivers because they had the same issue.

[billchao]

Golfs not a game about hitting good shots, @Jeremie Boop , it's about managing your misses. If your old driver is more consistent in terms of distance and dispersion, that's the club I would recommend.

[Jeremie Boop]

Golfs not a game about hitting good shots, @Jeremie Boop, it's about managing your misses. If your old driver is more consistent in terms of distance and dispersion, that's the club I would recommend.

That's pretty much exactly what made me get the old driver out to test this to begin with. I'm somewhat reticent to switch back because when I'm swinging well the Cobra goes so well... Also, it's hard to swallow that I took the time to get fitted for the club and purchased it only to find that it's just not working well enough to keep. I was curious, as well, if anyone would have an opinion of something newer than the Nike that would combine the forgiveness as well the added distance. At this point, with the goals I have for the index I'm shooting for this year, I'm just trying to make sure I'm not costing myself shots by using the wrong stuff.

[saevel25]

On good hits the BC+ definitely goes further, but on bad hits it does seem like I'm being penalized more. So, even though the longest drives are with the cobra, game golf shows that my "typical" shot with the Nike is actually 12 yards longer.... So, I'm sort of stuck in a quandary... Do I keep using the Cobra and wait for my swing to come around and reduce the mis-hits, do I switch back to my Nike for the added forgiveness, or do I get rid of both and get a different newer driver that will still have some added length but also has added forgiveness.... I feel like going with the "low spin" type driver was a mistake at my skill level and any advice would be appreciated.

Depends on your misses. If they are off the course bad, then shelve the BC+.

If your typical shot, by average, is 12 yards longer with the Nike then hit the Nike.

Who cares if your max is 15 yards longer with the BC+ when your average is actually less than the Nike.

In the long run averages are what matters with distance.

Lets take two holes. You play two balls, hitting each driver.

Lets say both are par 4's. First hole you hit the BC+ 290 yards in the fairway. Hole 2 you hit it 225 yards in the rough. Your strokes gained/lost would be about -0.24.

On the first hole you hit your Nike 275 yards in the fairway, and on the 2nd hole you hit it 265 yards in the rough. Your strokes gained/lost would be about -0.14

You are saving a tenth of a stroke every two holes. Lets say hitting the Nike keeps the ball on the course more often, then the benefit is way more substantial. Still, you are saving nearly 3/4ths a stroke every round.

Even though you can hit the BC+ 15 yards farther on the max, if your miss is that bad it is causing you to actually be up to 12 yards less on average you are losing strokes playing the BC+.

I'd say hit the Nike till your swing gets better then go back to the BC+.

[Jeremie Boop]

Depends on your misses. If they are off the course bad, then shelve the BC+.

If your typical shot, by average, is 12 yards longer with the Nike then hit the Nike.

Who cares if your max is 15 yards longer with the BC+ when your average is actually less than the Nike.

In the long run averages are what matters with distance.

Lets take two holes. You play two balls, hitting each driver.

Lets say both are par 4's. First hole you hit the BC+ 290 yards in the fairway. Hole 2 you hit it 225 yards in the rough. Your strokes gained/lost would be about -0.24.

On the first hole you hit your Nike 275 yards in the fairway, and on the 2nd hole you hit it 265 yards in the rough. Your strokes gained/lost would be about -0.14

You are saving a tenth of a stroke every two holes. Lets say hitting the Nike keeps the ball on the course more often, then the benefit is way more substantial. Still, you are saving nearly 3/4ths a stroke every round.

Even though you can hit the BC+ 15 yards farther on the max, if your miss is that bad it is causing you to actually be up to 12 yards less on average you are losing strokes playing the BC+.

I'd say hit the Nike till your swing gets better then go back to the BC+.

I don't know that either club keeps the ball on the course more often, I mean ball that's going OB is going OB regardless of what I have in my hands. What I may do is just put the Nike back in the bag for a few weeks to get more data on it, right now I've only logged about 13 shots with it. Maybe I'll log about 30 or so drives with it then I'll reset the stats on my BC+ and use it for 30 drives to have a decently fresh set of stats for both and go from there. Right now, fairway wise with about 2x the number of drives on the BC+ I'm at 33% accuracy and the Nike is at 23%. The main difference is the number of yards the shot misses the fairway. The Nike is about 22 yards off on average and the BC+ is 26 yards off on average. The vast majority of my missed fairways are to the left *pulls, hooks, over draws, etc* with both clubs. The main difference in the data, so far, is that in 13 drives with the Nike I've only had 3 exceptionally bad drives *read topped/duffed or sub 240 yards* and I've had 9 in 25 drives with the BC+.... The data on the BC+ is probably a bit skewed, however, since it includes some shots from before changes that have improved my swing and scoring. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm over analyzing all this, but such is my personality when it comes to looking at my own stats.

[billchao]

Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm over analyzing all this, but such is my personality when it comes to looking at my own stats.

It's starting to sound like this :-) What I think you should do is get on a good launch monitor and map out your shot zones for both clubs. I like to alternate clubs every few shots so you don't get into a groove while you're swinging one particular club. That should tell you everything yo need to know about the two clubs. The other thing you can try is to play a best ball practice round with both drivers. Alternate which club you hit first on every hole. If one club plays better for you than the other, you should see that you selected its shot more often or something. BTW, you can filter the insights in your GG by last 20, 10, 5, 3, 1 round(s), so if you are improving, just analyze your shots without looking at the old rounds.

[Jeremie Boop]

It's starting to sound like this

What I think you should do is get on a good launch monitor and map out your shot zones for both clubs. I like to alternate clubs every few shots so you don't get into a groove while you're swinging one particular club. That should tell you everything yo need to know about the two clubs.

The other thing you can try is to play a best ball practice round with both drivers. Alternate which club you hit first on every hole. If one club plays better for you than the other, you should see that you selected its shot more often or something.

I was thinking about trying to book time on the flightscope after work to see what the numbers show. The next time I go out and play, assuming the course is open enough, I'll hit a tee shot with each driver on every hole to see what comes of that. Either way, just going by the drives since 7/1 it shows accuracy and average shot lengths are almost exactly the same, but excluding the worst shots shows that the BC+ averages 15-20 yards further on good strikes. What I can see pretty clearly is I have a lot more snap hooks with the BC+. I'm not sure if that's just a swing flaw or if the swing weight of the club is throwing me off. I tend to lean towards swing flaw though. I also saw that some of my worst tee shots are on league night. I'm pretty sure that's due to trying too hard and I need to learn to "enjoy pressure" so that I stop doing that. Either way, I appreciate the input and will see with the Flightscope shows me and go from there.

[Mr. Desmond]

I'd keep the Nike for now, Demo and then trade the Cobra.  t

You can try callawaypreowned where the V Series 9 degree (less left oriented and comes with Fuji 565), and Callaway BB 815 are on sale - although new BB 815, I've seen at $249-299. Or Aeroburner, or Titleist...

After you demo, decide.

I had a tough time with the new Cobras, just did not fit ...

FYI, Callaway is shelving the V Series and calling it the Great Big Bertha, and the new 816 is coming out late August.

[Slowcelica]

I say keep gaming the bio cell+, I have a sldr that I don't always hit great but I figure if I keep working on my swing it will help me, because I can't always tell if I hit it good or not with the more forgiving drivers. With the sldr I can.

[Mr. Desmond]

I say keep gaming the bio cell+, I have a sldr that I don't always hit great but I figure if I keep working on my swing it will help me, because I can't always tell if I hit it good or not with the more forgiving drivers. With the sldr I can.

I can tell what's off with my swing with forgiving drivers -- look at the ball flight.

I also bought oversized driver impact tape.

Why punish yourself with the ultra low spin, bad drives unless you really need ultra low spin?

[Jeremie Boop]

So, the range session was pretty interesting. I didn't get a chance to get on the flightscope but I did try out a g25. I saw the same issues with the BC+, I had some awesome drives, some hooks and a few heely fades. Nike showed same tendencies as on the course also with no really big misses but overall shorter distances hit. When I explained what I'd been seeing the guy thought I may need to try a stiffer shaft in my driver so when he gave me the G25 he put the tour x stiff shaft in it and also gave me the tour stiff shaft. I never even swapped out to the tour stiff. All the shots with the G25 were a nice draw or slight fade. The longest drives were as long or longer than the BC+ but the bad drives were all better than the BC+ bad drives. He's going to let me take the G25 to play with on the course to decide about buying it and if I do buy it it's going to be $95.

[Slowcelica]

I can tell what's off with my swing with forgiving drivers -- look at the ball flight. I also bought oversized driver impact tape. Why punish yourself with the ultra low spin, bad drives unless you really need ultra low spin?

I'm not nescessarily talking about the spin, but with the sldr if I hit it off the toe or the heel I can tell, I never could with the biocell. So I would slice or hook it and think oh I'm coming over the top or to far inside. But with the sldr I can tell if it's on the heel or on the toe.

[Jeremie Boop]

I'm not nescessarily talking about the spin, but with the sldr if I hit it off the toe or the heel I can tell, I never could with the biocell. So I would slice or hook it and think oh I'm coming over the top or to far inside. But with the sldr I can tell if it's on the heel or on the toe.

I don't necessarily have trouble knowing when I mis-hit the ball with a more forgiving driver, like @Mr. Desmond l by the flight as well as the way it feels on the strike. I'd just like to not lose so many yards when I don't strike it pure.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowcelica

I'm not nescessarily talking about the spin, but with the sldr if I hit it off the toe or the heel I can tell, I never could with the biocell. So I would slice or hook it and think oh I'm coming over the top or to far inside. But with the sldr I can tell if it's on the heel or on the toe.

I don't necessarily have trouble knowing when I mis-hit the ball with a more forgiving driver, like @Mr. Desmond said, I can tell by the flight as well as the way it feels on the strike. I'd just like to not lose so many yards when I don't strike it pure.

That magic would make you rich selling clubs. . .

[Jeremie Boop]

That magic would make you rich selling clubs. . .

Lol, I'm not asking for miracles, but the range session showed that the G25 was a good combination of length + forgiveness. Basically it was a combination of the 2 drivers I have now. Of course, that may not translate to the course, but thankfully I'm going to be able to take it out on the course to see if it translates to on course results too. I'll probably pick it up after work Wednesday and play a full 18 with it and then use it Thursday at league so I can get a decent number of shots with it. I'll add it to my GG bag so I have real numbers to compare. At least there's no drawback to doing this. Worse case scenario is that it doesn't work well on the course and I stick with what I have.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That magic would make you rich selling clubs. . .

Lol, I'm not asking for miracles, but the range session showed that the G25 was a good combination of length + forgiveness. Basically it was a combination of the 2 drivers I have now. Of course, that may not translate to the course, but thankfully I'm going to be able to take it out on the course to see if it translates to on course results too. I'll probably pick it up after work Wednesday and play a full 18 with it and then use it Thursday at league so I can get a decent number of shots with it. I'll add it to my GG bag so I have real numbers to compare. At least there's no drawback to doing this. Worse case scenario is that it doesn't work well on the course and I stick with what I have.

The older Pings seem to like to launch lower, though.