The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[boogielicious]

5 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Let me just add a little something to why pace of play is so important. I have an 8 week old at home, and it's pretty tough to justify 5 hours at the golf course. Getting rounds to 4 hours or less would be amazing for me, and would let me play a lot more golf. A lot easier to get out and play 18 if I can get home in 4 hours.

So, you guys that don't care about how fast you play, your selfishness means I get to play less golf. Thanks a lot.

I played yesterday, stuck behind a group that was slow as hell. They were constantly a hole behind. The classics that cause slow play. One player setting up for a shot at a time. Marking everything on the green. Waiting in carts right by the green instead of leaving quickly. Not that it would have mattered too much given that the course was pretty stacked, but a couple of groups like that really slow things down.

We all care about slow play. We are just commenting that a four hour pace in not really slow for a foursome as some suggest. We all get frustrated behind slow groups too.

[newtogolf]

13 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Let me just add a little something to why pace of play is so important. I have an 8 week old at home, and it's pretty tough to justify 5 hours at the golf course. Getting rounds to 4 hours or less would be amazing for me, and would let me play a lot more golf. A lot easier to get out and play 18 if I can get home in 4 hours.

So, you guys that don't care about how fast you play, your selfishness means I get to play less golf. Thanks a lot.

I played yesterday, stuck behind a group that was slow as hell. They were constantly a hole behind. The classics that cause slow play. One player setting up for a shot at a time. Marking everything on the green. Waiting in carts right by the green instead of leaving quickly. Not that it would have mattered too much given that the course was pretty stacked, but a couple of groups like that really slow things down.

Let's clarify some things.  I don't and I doubt others intentionally play slow to screw guys like you that have limited time to play golf.  Our point is, we're not going to race and ruin our time on the course so you can get out and play more.  

The fact that you expect others to play at an uncomfortable pace so you can play more golf  could be considered selfish on your part, so it goes both ways.  I don't get how a 4 hour round is okay but 4:15 is a deal breaker.   As you stated, courses get stacked so it's usually not one groups fault when the pace of play extends past 4 hours.  If you want to play fast, secure the first or second tee time and be the rabbit on the course.     

[DeadMan]

4 hours for a foursome is not an uncomfortable pace. It is 13 minutes, 20 seconds a hole. 4:15 is 14 minutes, 10 seconds a hole. You guys really think that extra 50 seconds a hole makes a difference between not enjoying your round and enjoying your round? When I go off on the first tee time with a foursome, the pace is normally somewhere between 3:30 and 4 hours, and it's perfectly enjoyable. The difference is that you chat when you're walking down the fairway instead of on the tee box. 

I'm not saying everybody should play in 3 hours and speed walk through the course. 4 hours isn't a crazy fast pace; it just means ready golf and no lollygagging. If you are the first foursome on the course, and you play in over 4 hours, you are part of the problem.

Honestly, I wouldn't be that annoyed with a 4:15 round. At least around here, that's unusual for a weekend round. I do try to get out early, play quick 9s in the late afternoon. Still, since I work, it's hard to get out except on the weekends and run into slow players.

[Abu3baid]

25 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Let's clarify some things.  I don't and I doubt others intentionally play slow to screw guys like you that have limited time to play golf.  Our point is, we're not going to race and ruin our time on the course so you can get out and play more.  

The fact that you expect others to play at an uncomfortable pace so you can play more golf  could be considered selfish on your part, so it goes both ways.  I don't get how a 4 hour round is okay but 4:15 is a deal breaker.   As you stated, courses get stacked so it's usually not one groups fault when the pace of play extends past 4 hours.  If you want to play fast, secure the first or second tee time and be the rabbit on the course.     

He actually said he wants to be home in 4 hours..  If you figure 10 minutes to get to the course and 10 minutes to get on the first tee and then 10 minutes to get in your car and 10 minutes to get home that means he only has 3:20 to play.  ;)  maybe less if the course is further away!

For me playing golf is more than a 6 hour adventure because I drive 1 hour each way..  It's slotted in my schedule every Saturday morning so as long as its planned for I don't see the big deal!  

 

[Jeremie Boop]

I think most of the time if the play is steady a round that's 4-4:15 doesn't seem too bad. If you are waiting a minute or two to hit each shot it's hardly noticeable. The problem is more when you have times where you get stacked up on the tee and are waiting 10+ minutes to play. I've had rounds that finished up at right around 4 hours seem like it took forever because of backups at a few points on the course, and I've had rounds that finished up in 4:30 that didn't seem bad at all because the pace of play was steady but never had any extra long waits. A lot of it comes down to perception. A few long waits always makes it seem like a slower round, to me, than consistent short waits. Myself and @mcanadiens played 18 walking yesterday on a course that was just under 6300 yards. We stopped at the turn and grabbed some food and ate before continuing on. We aren't exactly tour pros, being a 17 and 20 hc, but were able to finish up in right under 4 hours even with waiting on the first tee and the stop at the turn for food. I don't think we'd have even been any faster in a cart, probably would have been slower given that we were on opposite sides of the hole almost every time. That being said, there are some people in this thread that would have said we were too slow and others would have said we were too fast. I say we were playing at exactly the right pace. If it had been two single digit players I would expect they would have been 10-15 minutes faster, but not significantly faster. It would be nice if were able to have a realistic idea of what a good/reasonable pace of pay is, not just what/how they would like it to be.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[Lihu]

7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I guess your BS detector went off like mine did. 

Let's see. Four 12-18 HC players are expected to play 18, walking in 3 (Lihu) hours when 2 of the absolute best players in the world get to play 18 in 4:30 in a PGA tournament. Seems reasonable.

I will add the pace of play is a bit like internet driving distance in that some people have trouble giving an accurate account. They play slower than they think they do.

 

6 hours ago, Fourputt said:

When you are making outrageous claims, you need to add those qualifying statements right at the start.  4 players in 4 carts is so rare as to be about the equivalent of finding a 2 pound diamond.  It doesn't matter what day of the week either.  Just because they have the carts to spare, it doesn't pay the course to let them out like that, and no course I play will do it.  Just about the only time I see a person alone in a cart is if there are an odd number of riders in a group.  

For my money, you might as well be playing alone, for all of the socializing you can do all racing around in separate carts.  I like interacting with the guys I'm playing with - not to the point of slowing down play, but while moving from shot to shot and hole to hole, etc.  In separate carts that is impossible, and would detract from the experience.

This is typical for most weekdays. I never play on weekends or on tournament days, the pace is really unbearable at 5 plus hours. I started a noon one Saturday and didn't finish until just after 7. Wouldn't have completed it except my partners and I were having a good time anyway.

We have a monthly membership and everyone gets a cart and a drink free with their round or was it a free round with a cart and drink? Seemed pretty normal to me as I've been doing it for the past couple years. So, yes, each golfer typical goes out with their own cart. The rounds play much faster and ready golf speeds things up a lot. Players are playing up as well to speed up their pace. Apparently we have the fastest players in the west. Although it sure doesn't feel like it.

[colin007]

23 hours ago, Lihu said:

Ah, I get what you're doing. You're defending the 4 hour pace as a target time.

Okay I disagree with that, it should be a maximum time for a slow foursome.

I agree, 4 hours is the MAX time, NOT the target time.

Also, sorry @Lihu but citing your times played as a foursome with 4 carts is ridiculous. That's completely NOT applicable to the conversation as it is akin to saying that you saw a unicorn banging a liger.

 

For the rest of you. I don't know what you want me to say. Every time I play with 3 other complete strangers who suck ass as badly as I do and it takes us 4 hrs to finish, that's a round where we all stand around waiting insufferably. It's a long round. It means the other jamokes in front ARE PLAYING SLOW. 

I remember seeing an article cited here lamenting the slow play in a U.S.Open back in the fifties or something. The cited slow play? Something like 3.5 hrs.

JUST HIT THE GODDAMN BALL ALREADY!!!

[newtogolf]

17 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

This is typical for most weekdays. I never play on weekends or on tournament days, the pace is really unbearable at 5 plus hours. I started a noon one Saturday and didn't finish until just after 7. Wouldn't have completed it except my partners and I were having a good time anyway.

We have a monthly membership and everyone gets a cart and a drink free with their round or was it a free round with a cart and drink? Seemed pretty normal to me as I've been doing it for the past couple years. So, yes, each golfer typical goes out with their own cart. The rounds play much faster and ready golf speeds things up a lot. Players are playing up as well to speed up their pace. Apparently we have the fastest players in the west. Although it sure doesn't feel like it.

Most courses don't have enough carts for everyone to have their own and most courses charge for carts $35 - $50 a round per cart.  

It makes more sense that you can within the time frames you quoted knowing this.  I guess everyone has their own cart and you all just race to your ball and hit it then race to the next  location until you all meet at the green.  If you enjoy playing golf that way, I'm glad, but I have no interest in playing that type of golf.  

[colin007]

Can I just ask you slower playing guys, how long would it take you to walk/play nine holes by yourselves on an empty course?

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Most courses don't have enough carts for everyone to have their own and most courses charge for carts $35 - $50 a round per cart.  

It makes more sense that you can within the time frames you quoted knowing this.  I guess everyone has their own cart and you all just race to your ball and hit it then race to the next  location until you all meet at the green.  If you enjoy playing golf that way, I'm glad, but I have no interest in playing that type of golf.  

Yes, I kind of took that for granted. Not everyone has that cart and drink deal. We also have $24 per day range ball budgets which amounts to 240 to 250 balls per day. I'm loving it as are the other 2000+ members.

Eventually, I am going back to my $175 per month of weekday unlimited golf, but I need a lot of range practice before playing daily again.my swing is better than last year, but just barely. . .

[bkuehn1952]

2 hours ago, colin007 said:

Can I just ask you slower playing guys, how long would it take you to walk/play nine holes by yourselves on an empty course?

The description "you slower guys" seems a bit negative, yes?

There are some variables, such as distance from green to next tee, etc... Long course or short?  3,500+ yards is probably slower than 2,900 yards.  Hilly?  Probably a bit slower.  90+ degrees and humid or windy, again, slower.  Playing well or shitty?  Shitty takes a bit longer.

I have walked 9 trying to beat sunset in 55 minutes.  I was playing well, the 2-some let me through and I literally jogged a bit, especially when playing through the 2-some.  I consider that my lower limit.  There is no way I am going to try to replicate that pace, even if I am teeing off at 7am.  Get 4 players of varying abilities walking a course and 4 hours or a bit less is decent pace unless we are on a flat, featureless 5,800 yard course in 65 degree, calm conditions.

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, colin007 said:

Can I just ask you slower playing guys, how long would it take you to walk/play nine holes by yourselves on an empty course?

I don't play 9 very often, but It's hard - not impossible but hard - to walk 18 in under 2 3/4 hrs. I would say 3 hrs is close to typical when I'm really moving and I don't get held up much by others. There were rounds last year when it would take me longer than 3 hrs for some reason. Not lollygagging, not being held up (much) by others, just couldn't seem to get through any faster. 

As I've posted in other posts, if I just accept a ball hit into the woods as lost and not look beyond a casual glance, the round goes much, much faster.

Let me ask you something @colin007... Does your course have thick woods lining most of the fairways or is it more of an open course?

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

We all care about slow play. We are just commenting that a four hour pace in not really slow for a foursome as some suggest. We all get frustrated behind slow groups too.

Now my BS meter is pegged.

People should play like they have 3 hours a round and slow play will cease to exist. If they play to a 4 hour pace it will be slower than that, and not by a little.

The issue is the golfers who look at their watches or whatnot and decide that they are moving fast enough are severely guilty of slow play. I've met and played with my fair share of these folks who have no idea they are holding up groups behind. Meanwhile, I'm watching the party in front of us disappear for the last time on the 3rd hole or thereabouts.

Slow play belongs to everyone who do not have the ability to go from tee to hole in a hair over 9 minutes as a 4 some on average or less.

[bkuehn1952]

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Meanwhile, I'm watching the party in front of us disappear for the last time on the 3rd hole or thereabouts.

So what did you do to get your group moving faster?

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, bkuehn1952 said:

So what did you do to get your group moving faster?

Couldn't get them to do anything, people seem to be set in their ways. Some get yelled at and others hit into. Not hit into on purpose, of course. Usually, I'll make some excuse not to be a part of that group and go to another hole or the other course if I get permission. My hope is that with one less person they can move faster. Basically, I just don't want to be part of the shouting that will inevitably happen when the group behind us hits into us.

This is is why I'm not surprised by all the responses I am getting from so many regarding slow play.

 

 

Off topic and not directed at you, Brian: For those who are thinking I'm lying about the carts and whatnot, https://www.golfzing.com/pcbrookside. Drinks include beer. You all can "Go bite my shiny metal wedge."-Bender Lihu Rodriguez 

 

[CR McDivot]

14 minutes ago, Lihu said:

...Off topic and not directed at you, Brian: For those who are thinking I'm lying about the carts and whatnot, https://www.golfzing.com/pcbrookside. Drinks include beer. You all can "Go bite my shiny metal wedge."-Bender Lihu Rodriguez 

 

 

And just where here do you get 4 singles in carts per foursome?

BTW - Looks like very good rates for the most part. Hope they can maintain the course into the future for the revenue.

Edited April 24, 2016 by CR McDivot

[Lihu]

25 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

And just where here do you get 4 singles in carts per foursome?

BTW - Looks like very good rates for the most part. Hope they can maintain the course into the future for the revenue.

Green fee is included with the cart fee, so everyone gets their own cart.

They're $11 after 3:00 and the green fees are included. We pay a monthly fee of $40. Lots of free stuff comes with that. Lots of better golfers at my course too! Same people, but better ball shrinking. The short game area is really nice now too. I estimated $80,000+ per month revenue in the monthly fees alone, and very few hit 250 balls per day at the range. Also, this is only one of 6 courses in my drivable area offering this type of package. I could go to any of them, but this one is only 5 minutes from my office. Btw, it's not a muni, it's a public course operated by private companies. I'm also a member of the men's club there.

Was seriously considering this one: https://www.golfzing.com/pcsandimas and two others, but am waiting to get the universal club membership for any of the participating courses.

[CR McDivot]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Cart is free, so everyone gets their own carts for the most part.

They're $11 and the green fees are included. We pay a monthly fee of $40. Lots of free stuff comes with that...

OK on the carts IF you can get away with it. Not the way I like to play; if riding (which I only do on courses that are too rough to walk) I prefer a partner. I know of no course in this area that would ride 1 per cart unless teeing as a single or threesome (2 in one and 1 in the other).

The monthly (Players Club) you see there is an excellent deal, the best I can get here is Preferred Player at 5 plays for $100 (cart fees extra). Course is longish (couple of good jaunts from green to tee) but walkable even for seniors like me.

Buffalo Run Scorecard