Rock hard bunkers

[Jon Hoover]

Open the face and hit a little behind the ball using the bounce, you'll get a nice hard thunk sound, usually turns out pretty good for me.

[inthehole]

Open the face and hit a little behind the ball using the bounce, you'll get a nice hard thunk sound, usually turns out pretty good for me.

opening the face is pending complete utter disaster on really hard bunkers for me.   I'm not doubting it can be done, but seems like an awful lot can go wrong when opening the club face on a super hard packed sand shot.

I'm all about not lagging the clubhead and using the bounce to my advantage on tight lie greenside chip shots, but introducing the bounce on a hard packed bunker shot seems like such a highly skilled Mickelson-esque shot to me ... I've tried & just don't have the chops

[Grumpter]

Basically astro-turf type material. Wedge with lots of bounce, using the bounce. It's a common myth that lots of bounce can't be used on tight lies. Also bounce isn't everything on a wedge. You have to be concerned with the shape of the sole as well.

I was not, and assume RGoosen was not, talking about the bounce of the club but rather creating additional bounce for a highly lofted club by opening up the club face. While you can pick a shot with a high bounce club what you don't want to happen is to hit behind the ball and have the club bounce off the hard pan creating the thin rocket off the bottom of the club. Also, the video seems to be more of a pitch shot (longer) than a greenside bunker shot. I assume Duff was talking about a bunker right next to the green but it is not entirely clear from the original post.

[Dave2512]

Hard bunkers are easy to get out of *if the sand doesn't give. It's the not quite hard enough to hit a regular chip or pitch but hard enough to deflect the club so it skids on the surface resulting in a bladed shot sand that sucks. I encounter more of the latter and it makes for a tough shot.

[dkolo]

I tend to play the same shot as always, except I don't use nearly as much force and try to hit the sand a lot closer to the ball. Bunkers here tend to be a thin layer of sand and either clay or dirt underneath, so that's what I'm referring to.

[dchoye]

I seen other players use a putter out of hard sand with success.

Even sand trap that wasn't rock hard, but had very little sand and coarse consistency,

Though I never attempted it a putter , I seen it work really well.

[dkolo]

I seen other players use a putter out of hard sand with success. Even sand trap that wasn't rock hard, but had very little sand and coarse consistency, Though I never attempted it a putter , I seen it work really well.

My brother putts from the rough too but he also can't chip or hit bunker shots to save his life haha

[Duff McGee]

If it is similar to playing off of hard pan (but with a small amount of sand) then I will take my 60 degree wedge without increasing the loft and hit much closer to the ball than a 'normal' greenside sand shot. I don't try to pick the ball. I am looking to hit the sand just behind the ball. I find opening the face can cause the club to bounce off the hard dirt/sand producing a thin rocket off the bottom of the club.

That's exactly what happened to me.

[Fourputt]

Here is how I do it.  I can't really comment on technique, since each lie and situation is treated individually.  But what I really do in this case is to not expect too much.  I play a shot that will 95% of time put me on the green, and more often than not, within reasonable range (say 20 feet) of the hole.  All I'm really doing here is trying to make sure that my next shot is a putt.  The better the lie and the more accepting the landing spot on the green is, the more likely I am to try for a better shot.

When you play a lot of courses, you see all different kinds and depths of sand in bunkers, and lies come in many shapes from downhill fried egg to hard pan to nice level sand.  You either learn to accept the potential penalty for being there or you spend a lot of your playing days crying, cursing, and pulling your hair out.

I'll add that I'd rather be in a bunker with little or no sand than lying in a 3" deep footprint in beautiful soft fluffy sand.

[Grumpter]

Here is how I do it.  I can't really comment on technique, since each lie and situation is treated individually.  But what I really do in this case is to not expect too much.  I play a shot that will 95% of time put me on the green, and more often than not, within reasonable range (say 20 feet) of the hole.  All I'm really doing here is trying to make sure that my next shot is a putt.  The better the lie and the more accepting the landing spot on the green is, the more likely I am to try for a better shot.

This is almost exactly the mindset I try to get higher handicap players I play with in. Sometimes I need to get myself in that mindset. Try to get it to a point that gives you a chance of making the next shot or at least to be putting. Aim for the part of the green that gives you more room for error rather than directly at the flag. If going for the flag leaves a lot of room for error then go for it.

[BuckeyeNut]

I tend to use less bounce as the lie gets more firm. For me, the deep beach-like sand is the toughest to control the ball flight and spin.  I use big bounce and still have to be cautious not to go too deep because bounce won't save you if the sand is deep and fluffy.  You can still go too deep and look foolish no matter how much bounce you are playing!  LOL..When it comes to deep sand, I am guarding against going too deep.   I can't just open the blade and "THUMP" and expect a good result in deep sand.  For me, this is the toughest bunker condition to hit the ball close with any consistency.

Medium depth bunkers down to bunkers with firm sand......these are good bunkers!   Thump away and the ball is easy to control.   I also like wet hard-packed sand!   When it comes to wet hard-packed sand, I use my 60degree wedge that has less bounce.  I still use the bounce, but I use lesser degree.  I also hit closer to the ball!

Now there is hardpan!!..no sand conditions!   If you encounter these conditions regularly, you know it's time to play somewhere else!!.....LOL

[RGoosen]

^ BuckeyeNut is on the right track. IMO...this is exactly how to play the shot. I was in several waste areas today that had hard rain packed thin sand. I took my 60 degree lob wedge with 10 degrees of bounce and made sure the wedge was only slightly open, took very little sand, and made sure I did not decelerate.

[Fourputt]

^

BuckeyeNut is on the right track.

IMO...this is exactly how to play the shot. I was in several waste areas today that had hard rain packed thin sand. I took my 60 degree lob wedge with 10 degrees of bounce and made sure the wedge was only slightly open, took very little sand, and made sure I did not decelerate.

And yet I do okay with my 54° SW with 11° bounce in virtually all conditions.  In true hardpan with no sand at all I don't treat it as a bunker, but that's rare scenario.  There is almost always some sand, even if only 1/4", and I can make the 54° Vokey work in that.  Good thing since I don't even own a 60°.

[RGoosen]

And yet I do okay with my 54° SW with 11° bounce in virtually all conditions.  In true hardpan with no sand at all I don't treat it as a bunker, but that's rare scenario.  There is almost always some sand, even if only 1/4", and I can make the 54° Vokey work in that.  Good thing since I don't even own a 60°.

I believe it works for you b/c you have 11 degree bounce.

If you tried that with 14 degrees of bounce that shot would be extremely difficult.

[dkolo]

I believe it works for you b/c you have 11 degree bounce. If you tried that with 14 degrees of bounce that shot would be extremely difficult.

3° of bounce isn't a huge difference in itself. And anything over 10° is already a fair amount.

[RGoosen]

3° of bounce isn't a huge difference in itself. And anything over 10° is already a fair amount.

I'm not really sure where you are going with that. I used to have a 56 degree sand wedge with 14 degrees of bounce. That club was useless to me in pretty much all conditions other than extremely fluffy sand and in deep rough around the green. I know that there are multiple ways to play bunker shots. I just think the way BuckeyeNut and I described it is the easiest method for someone that has trouble playing this particular shot. If some golfers have success playing this shot another way then that is great.

[dkolo]

I'm not really sure where you are going with that.

I used to have a 56 degree sand wedge with 14 degrees of bounce. That club was useless to me in pretty much all conditions other than extremely fluffy sand and in deep rough around the green.

I know that there are multiple ways to play bunker shots. I just think the way BuckeyeNut and I described it is the easiest method for someone that has trouble playing this particular shot. If some golfers have success playing this shot another way then that is great.

I took your comment to mean that him playing a 54°.11° wedge would make a big difference in playing out of a bunker vs a 54°.14°, and my point was that, all things being equal, they wouldn't play all that differently. I know my 56° wedge with 14° of bounce is my most versatile club in the bag. Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGoosen

I believe it works for you b/c you have 11 degree bounce.

If you tried that with 14 degrees of bounce that shot would be extremely difficult.

3° of bounce isn't a huge difference in itself. And anything over 10° is already a fair amount.

In generic terms, 14° is high bounce, 11° is medium, and under 9° is low.  I've almost always used a medium bounce SW, even as far back as 1990 when I didn't really know what the actual bounce angle was on my MacGregor RPM SW.- aside from knowing that it was much less than the SW it replaced.  I like the 54° with medium bounce, because I can still lay it way open in a soft bunker and get a high shot with decent bounce action, while not being stuck with the high bounce when it isn't needed.  I only own one sand wedge - my CG15  (56° with 10° bounce) is used for my equivalent of a lob wedge and I never use it from sand.