Trackman Combine

[Lihu]

I have been planning on doing a Trackman Combine to see where I stand, and was told by the coach to review a bunch of stuff and look at other peoples numbers in my handicap range.

http://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-combine-explained/

So, I created an account in "http://mytrackman.com/" and browsed through a whole bunch of readings. What I found was that typically the 9-12 HC players range in the Combine 54-57 scores (keeping mind that the average 18 handicap scores 47). I saw a bunch of players in the low to mid-70s, and that kind of surprised me. According to one Newsletter that is in the range of Division 1 College and mini-Tour players. 83 is the current average score for a PGA player.

Here's the brochure .

Well, I am planning on doing the Combine sometime this or the following week (possible scheduling conflicts this week), and am doing a lot of research before forking over the $$$ for the evaluation. I also plan to record the experience.

I like what I am seeing. It seems like all the Trackman coaches I talked to are very flexible and willing to help me understand the way Trackman measures things and how it compares to the course.

One thing that I question is using the "Premium" setting for ball. As most of the facilities use range balls, they need to have a tweak factor to convert to premium ball. One coach told me that it is as much as 10% which also surprised me. When I watched the video on how to use the "normalization" features on Trackman, it appeared that you need to use the range ball setting and it compensates for the reduction? The video does not really indicate that there is more than a couple to a few percent variation in ball speed, and maybe up to 1500 RPM difference with the PW?

In any case, I look forward to finally taking this evaluation.

If anyone has taken it, please post about the experience. . .thanks.

[Lihu]

So, the format of hitting 3 balls at 60,70,80,90,100,120,140,160,180, driver yards is tough. I tried hitting part of a bucket with this format twice. It was hard. I'm going to do it a few more times before my test. I went to a range with accurate pin locations to distances close to the target values. 60 to 90 use my LW, and distance control is really tough. For the 100,120,140 yard distances, I am thinking of using one club up but making a "soft" swing. So 100 yard will be a partial 52, the 120 will use a partial PW and 140 a partial 8. This lowers the trajectories and gets less spin of the clubs but gets me the desired carry distances. Still not decided to do this, as the ball flight sucks this way and is probably defeating the system. The longer distances are equally tough for me because for sure I don't hit them within 5 yards of target. In fact, I need to make full swings with the 160 and 180 distances. My 160 is okay if I hit a soft 6i, if I make a full swing 7i I don't have as much distance control. It just goes as far as my full swing allows. 180 yards carry is normally my 5i, but I'm sometimes hit way short. If I use my 4i, I can always make the distance. The issue is I'm not sure how much I am penalized for going too far versus too short? So, if I use my odd clubs and make full swings, I lack some distance control. The balls pretty much go where they go. Even clubs, I'm hitting much softer, and I have distance control but not sure if that control lends itself to accuracy at this point in my game. It's very hard. . .

[Lihu]

Then there's the on line accuracy. This is really really tough.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I haven't done the TrackMan Combine yet. I saw it was an option at the Dustin Johnson Golf School at the TPC Myrtle Beach. Instead I opted to spend an hour on the FlightScope at a different golf school and hit about 10 balls with each club and got a print out of the full report. It was eye opening. Also, I have no doubt the beat up range balls produce a 10% reduction in distance. Some of them barely had dimples left on them.

[iacas]

So, the format of hitting 3 balls at 60,70,80,90,100,120,140,160,180, driver yards is tough. I tried hitting part of a bucket with this format twice. It was hard. I'm going to do it a few more times before my test.

You're not supposed to practice for the test. You're supposed to use the test to see to see where your game stands.

For the 100,120,140 yard distances, I am thinking of using one club up but making a "soft" swing. So 100 yard will be a partial 52, the 120 will use a partial PW and 140 a partial 8. This lowers the trajectories and gets less spin of the clubs but gets me the desired carry distances. Still not decided to do this, as the ball flight sucks this way and is probably defeating the system.

Uhm, that's cheating (yourself). You're supposed to hit the club you'd hit on the golf course from those yardages. Sure, you can "game" the system a bit, but what's that gonna tell you?

180 yards carry is normally my 5i, but I'm sometimes hit way short.

So there's only a 25-yard gap between your 8I and your good 5I, which is "sometimes hit way short"?

So, if I use my odd clubs and make full swings, I lack some distance control. The balls pretty much go where they go. Even clubs, I'm hitting much softer, and I have distance control but not sure if that control lends itself to accuracy at this point in my game.

Here are my suggestions:

• Stop conning yourself.* Your club distances have been out of whack for awhile now.
• Work on hitting the ball better. More consistently. More solidly. Without pulling the heck out of it.
• Skip the Trackman Combine, especially if you're just going to cheat yourself by trying to game the system/results.

* What do I mean by this? Look, I couldn't care less about how far someone else hits the ball. I'm pretty happy with the scores I shoot, and I am really happy when someone I've helped plays better. But ask yourself if you have 180 yards to the flag (in the middle of the green) and you have to do all three of these things :

1. flush your 5I
2. pull it a little to de-loft it
3. swing hard

Then that's not really playing golf the right way. If your 5I comes up "way short" "sometimes" then you're costing yourself strokes. If you have to "game" the system to try to get a better score, that's indicative of the fact that you're conning yourself a little bit.

If a Trackman was nearby and inexpensive, I'd say sure: go take the Combine, and do it once a month to keep another record of your progress. But I feel like you're going to head to this Combine, get all up in your head trying to figure out what to do, and be unhappy with the results and cast them aside as "well I just wasn't prepared for that."

Say you hit your 5I from 180. Say you fat the first one, and pull the second one 177 but way offline. What do you do with the third ball? Switch clubs? That's not how it's supposed to work. What would you get out of that?

Why do the Combine? If you're going to go on a launch monitor, just hit 20 shots with four or five clubs. Hell, map your Shot Zones. Let's see where your Shot Centers lie and the size of your Shot Zones for*:

• Driver
• 3W
• 4I
• 7I
• PW

Let's see THAT report, @Lihu . You'll get a BUNCH more information out of that than you will doing a Trackman combine. Let's see your average distances (carry, at under 900 feet altitude, soft conditions). THAT will be a better assessment of your game than getting a low-ish score on Trackman Combine.

BTW, when I say "let's see that report" I don't really care if you show us or not. It will help you, so long as you can look at it honestly. That's what I care about in the end; you getting better.

[billchao]

@Lihu how is the Trackman Combine going to be an accurate assessment of your game if you're practicing for the test?

Edit: Erik beat me to it.

[Lihu]

Why do the Combine? If you're going to go on a launch monitor, just hit 20 shots with four or five clubs. Hell, map your Shot Zones. Let's see where your Shot Centers lie and the size of your Shot Zones for*:

Driver

3W

4I

7I

PW

Got it. No more practice for this thing. I just tried kind of "practice" last night.

Yes, the plan is to map my shot zones as well. Not sure I have time to hit 20 shots, but maybe 10 each. They are giving me an hour to warm up and I figure to use that time as well as I can to do that.

From what I've read "Combine" is the best way to assess your "long game" potential. All distances are carry. They don't even look at roll except for driver, I guess?

BTW, it's funny how people interpret things in a different manner that's written. I'm going to have to be even more explicit in what I write I guess.

Also, 180 yards to the pin, I'm not going to hit the club I carry to that distance. Even my 170 carry club is questionable. I'm not nearly that good.

[saevel25]

Sounds like an interesting challenge. I would like to see a graph of the scores versus handicap. I would think that the curve would look something like the 5 key's graph versus handicap ;)

[iacas]

Yes, the plan is to map my shot zones as well. Not sure I have time to hit 20 shots, but maybe 10 each. They are giving me an hour to warm up and I figure to use that time as well as I can to do that.

Why "as well"? What I'm suggesting is that you ONLY do that. Just hit the 100 best balls you can with those five clubs. The Combine itself won't be as helpful, IMO, as you seem to think it will be.

From what I've read "Combine" is the best way to assess your "long game" potential.

That's marketing. You said above your 5I is "sometimes hit way short." Do you need a Trackman Combine to tell you that you need to hit the ball more solidly?

Also, 180 yards to the pin, I'm not going to hit the club I carry to that distance. Even my 170 carry club is questionable. I'm not nearly that good.

So… you're counting roll in all of your distances? 145 over a bunker, 153 to the pin, are you hitting an 8I? A 6I? How far is the ball flying?

This is why you should do your Shot Zones and Shot Centers in soft or, at most, medium conditions. 700 feet altitude. No weird adjustments.

Let's see some data (again, if you keep it to yourself, that's cool too - but if you share it others can help you interpret it).

[turtleback]

You have to decide if the goal is to assess your actual game or are you trying to game the test to get the best possible score.  It sounds like the latter, and I doubt that will have any positive result on either your game or your understanding of your own game, IMO.

[mvmac]

All distances are carry. They don't even look at roll except for driver, I guess?

Definitely for irons and wedges, it's about the carry distance. If someone asked me how far I hit my 7-iron, they're asking how far I hit it in the air, I tell them the carry distance.

[saevel25]

I think for driver it's important to know both.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Also, 180 yards to the pin, I'm not going to hit the club I carry to that distance. Even my 170 carry club is questionable. I'm not nearly that good.

So… you're counting roll in all of your distances? 145 over a bunker, 153 to the pin, are you hitting an 8I? A 6I? How far is the ball flying?

This is why you should do your Shot Zones and Shot Centers in soft or, at most, medium conditions. 700 feet altitude. No weird adjustments.

Let's see some data (again, if you keep it to yourself, that's cool too - but if you share it others can help you interpret it).

No roll in any of the distances I attempted to quote. Unfortunately, the farther I carry any club the more roll I get. I get a lot more than I should. So, my 170 carry club rolls anywhere from 5 yards to 25 yards, and that's no way to play golf. I realize this, and am working on fixing it.

I'm not even close to ready to tackle the above as I am still working only up to my 7i now, and still far from optimal. 8i is a little better, but again far from where it should be. As I go down, I get more control on the clubs, but again not as good as they should be.

At this point, just going to depend upon whatever the Trakman tells me.

Actually have no choice, but to share the data. It'll be on mytrakman which is public once you register. I'd like to plan to take more combines every half year or more if there is a significant change in my progress. I think the whole idea behind the combine is to find out where you are and what's wrong. It's really cool. They have video with launch stats.

I'm looking forward to it. Just might have to delay a week, as my family schedule is pretty busy now. I just spent what little time I had this week playing a round of golf.

[iacas]

It's Trackman, with a "c," btw.

[Lihu]

It's Trackman, with a "c," btw.

Oops.

[SCC4380]

If you want to do a Trackman Combine I have no problem with it. I think it would be fun. According to the Trackman newsletter, there are a number of pros who do it on a regular basis to see who can get the lower score and add an element of competition to their practice. That being said, here are few thoughts on the Trackman Combine.

1. I have never done a one but I did use Trackman Combine reports posted on the internet to figure out how they score it. As far as the scoring goes, it is the distance from the target that matters. Right, left, short, and long all hurt your score equally.
2. Based on the analysis of Mark Broadie, the long game is where the best players gain the most strokes. The Trackman Combine, in my opinion, has too much emphasis on short shots, some of which aren't even that common for better players to hit (perhaps one or two a round). I don't think it is an accurate way to measure your long game.
3. I think that the Trackman Combine would be a more accurate measure of your skill (even if it does give too much weight to short shots) if you hit the shots in random order, not three shots to each distance, one right after the other.
4. I agree with Eric that it would be a better use of your time and money to use Trackman to get your average yardages and dispersion on record.

Steven

[Lihu]

It's funny that on many of my par 4 drives I had 60/70/80 yard shots left. I thought about practicing these distances more? Random is a pretty good idea.

[Spitfisher]

many of the "numbers" you'll be looking at are not exclusive to trackman, but really any launch monitor, as iacas pointed out choose 4-5 clubs. I wouldn't get hung up of spin rates of irons, its almost meaningless for lofted irons, especially with a mass produced bulk buy of range balls. Drivers are a different story, Spin, launch angle, club head speed, smash factor and decent angle are far more critical to a driver, than any iron in your bag. especialy for an 11 handicapper. A trackman or flightscope will give you raw data, but the data in a simple form you probably already know. Personally learn to hit your clubs consistently with better ball striking is the secret. That should be the number one goal. Once comfortable and you'll have some days that will be better than others......Try to pick 3 distances you are comfortable with, for me it 105 yards, 135 yards and 160. I can hit all 3 yardages with 3 different clubs and ball flights very consistently....that is when you know you are hitting the ball consistently with different swing speeds and launch angles.