Taking good balls from range buckets

[Lihu]

[quote name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/252#post_1196270"] @Sante TwoGloves Wouldn't it just be simpler to say, "I understand that this is technically theft, but in the grander scheme of things it's inconsequential and I know many range operators who actually prefer I take out the non-range balls." All these contortions and ridiculous straw men and logically fallacies just make sound like s jerk and damage your credibility on any future topics.

I dont think its theft but i guess thats the debate. I was just trying to keep the conversation interesting. I might be right though when I say that I think it is equally important to ask the range owner if it's ok to hit non range balls into his range as asking first if you can take them. The problem for me is that I have a weird, absurd sense of humor that doesn't always translate well. Hard to see someone's tongue in their cheek when they are making comments on the web. This morning ball report for me? Walked along the road by my girlfriends house and found 14 balls. Kept 4 prov1 s and 2 bridgestones. Went to the range and picked 4 more prov1 s and hit the ones that I found along the road i didnt want. These premium balls aren't all that premium. I have hit many prov1 s into the range before all scuffed and dirty and covered in dots and marks.[/quote] I think it's more of a mindset thing. Once you get into the mode where you pick up "lost" balls, you put yourself in a position where it's possible to take a ball that's still in play. It's rare, but can happen. If you just leave any and all balls wherever they are, you never risk such a thing. Touching, lifting or moving a ball in play could ruin a round for some people, and keeping a mindset to leave a ball that you know not to be yours puts less tension on other golfers. If you are worried about people coming onto your fairway and taking or touching your ball, it adds just a little anguish to your round as you wait for partners to play their shots. This has happened many times to me and other playing partners, so it's not that rare. If you don't even consider taking any balls on the range, that mindset extends to the course.

[Sante TwoGloves]

Just one more time to explain my position on hitting your balls without the range's consent. You pay for a bucket of balls, you go to a spot and hit those balls. That's the proper thing to do. If you buy a bucket of balls, go to a spot and hit those balls AND some balls you brought along you are not doing what you agreed to do when you bought the bucket. Bringing your own balls and hitting them means that over time you are going to rent less balls from the range. You are stealing and cheating the range unless you get consent first to use your time there to hit balls you brought. Throw in the fact that this particular range owner may not want non range balls in his product you are adding to his overhead should he decide to sort and maybe not in your mind but you are in fact diluting and altering his product.

[inthehole]

Overall my issue with this is that people are being very sanctimonious over a very trivial matter.

Oh it's theft and you want to get all antsy about it, but I can promise all those people crying about it have done similar or worse in other circumstances.

Just because it's a golf range and they like golf it suddenly makes them think they can be hypocrites and get all holier than thou and judgement because someone nabs a golf ball.

this post wins the internet

[Lihu]

Just one more time to explain my position on hitting your balls without the range's consent. You pay for a bucket of balls, you go to a spot and hit those balls. That's the proper thing to do. If you buy a bucket of balls, go to a spot and hit those balls AND some balls you brought along you are not doing what you agreed to do when you bought the bucket. Bringing your own balls and hitting them means that over time you are going to rent less balls from the range. You are stealing and cheating the range unless you get consent first to use your time there to hit balls you brought. Throw in the fact that this particular range owner may not want non range balls in his product you are adding to his overhead should he decide to sort and maybe not in your mind but you are in fact diluting and altering his product.

I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning. If you are donating balls to the range isn't that more money than the course normally would get renting balls?

[Sante TwoGloves]

I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning. If you are donating balls to the range isn't that more money than the course normally would get renting balls?

Did the range ask for your donations? Just because you are giving them balls doesn't mean that they want them. The flaw is in thinking that they automatically do. Proceeding to "donate" without their consent could be hurting the range not helping.

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/270#post_1196313"] I think there might be a flaw in your reasoning. If you are donating balls to the range isn't that more money than the course normally would get renting balls?

Did the range ask for your donations? Just because you are giving them balls doesn't mean that they want them. The flaw is in thinking that they automatically do. Proceeding to "donate" without their consent could be hurting the range not helping.[/quote] It's kind of like getting a present, you didn't really ask for it but still got it. The person "donating" balls has the intention of giving them to the course, so therefore it belongs to the course whether they liked it or not.

[Ernest Jones]

Just one more time to explain my position on hitting your balls without the range's consent. You pay for a bucket of balls, you go to a spot and hit those balls. That's the proper thing to do. If you buy a bucket of balls, go to a spot and hit those balls AND some balls you brought along you are not doing what you agreed to do when you bought the bucket. Bringing your own balls and hitting them means that over time you are going to rent less balls from the range. You are stealing and cheating the range unless you get consent first to use your time there to hit balls you brought. Throw in the fact that this particular range owner may not want non range balls in his product you are adding to his overhead should he decide to sort and maybe not in your mind but you are in fact diluting and altering his product.

You're moving the goal posts here a little (actually, a LOT). Topic for another thread methinks.

[turtleback]

On phone so I'm not about to try and erase all which doesn't apply, but to your first paragraph ... This theory gets "exploded" to use your word when you apply it to balls found in the woods or tees in perfect condition found on the tee box. Those aren't yours either.

The ownership of the balls matters and I dispute the level of ownership the range has because the ball found its way into one of their bags.

Nope, doesn't explode my theory at all because I do not pick those up either.  As I have stated in so many words in prior threads, though there is no reason at all you should or would remember that.

But I am having a problem understanding your theory even when I accept, arguendo, what I think is (one of) your premises:  When you find a lost ball in the woods you pick it up and then it is yours.

Doesn't that imply that when the course finds a lost ball on its range, it is the course's ball?  Otherwise, you claim to acquire ownership by finding it (on the course's property, BTW) but somehow when the course finds the ball on its range (on the course's own property) does not?  But since you claim to own that found ball in the same sense that the course can claim to own that found ball your brother sliced into the range, I'm still not understanding how this justifies someone who clearly DOES NOT own the ball getting to keep it.  If the ball you found in the woods fell out of your bag on the teebox, would I be justified in scooping it up and keeping it because you had only found it and therefore it wasn't really yours -  which is the argument I hear you making about the range.

For me the only ownership issue I have to worry about is "is it mine".

[Sante TwoGloves]

It's kind of like getting a present, you didn't really ask for it but still got it. The person "donating" balls has the intention of giving them to the course, so therefore it belongs to the course whether they liked it or not.

And that would be wrong to do. What we have here I think are certain people who think it's ok to use their own balls at a range because they have been doing that for years and as a result think it's an accepting thing to do ( and it certainly is not without consent from the range) condemning people who take non range balls from the range buckets without asking the range either who think that what they do is also ok to do. The bottomline for me is that both practices are wrong and could hurt the range eitherway, which is why I recommend you ask first whether you are giving or receiving. It's oh so very simple really.

[tefunk]

And that would be wrong to do. What we have here I think are certain people who think it's ok to use their own balls at a range because they have been doing that for years and as a result think it's an accepting thing to do ( and it certainly is not without consent from the range) condemning people who take non range balls from the range buckets without asking the range either who think that what they do is also ok to do. The bottomline for me is that both practicing are wrong and could hurt the range eitherway, which is why I recommend you ask first whether you are giving or receiving. It's oh so very simple really.

I think what we have here are people who are either delusional, or enjoy arguing for the sake of argument

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

It's kind of like getting a present, you didn't really ask for it but still got it.

The person "donating" balls has the intention of giving them to the course, so therefore it belongs to the course whether they liked it or not.

And that would be wrong to do. What we have here I think are certain people who think it's ok to use their own balls at a range because they have been doing that for years and as a result think it's an accepting thing to do ( and it certainly is not without consent from the range) condemning people who take non range balls from the range buckets without asking the range either who think that what they do is also ok to do. The bottomline for me is that both practicing are wrong and could hurt the range eitherway, which is why I recommend you ask first whether you are giving or receiving. It's oh so very simple really.

I agree that there are many issues using play balls on the driving ranges, but honestly, those are in the extreme minority.

Examples such as some golfers breaching the range fences, and jamming the ball machines are all very real at my ranges. But they are rare, only a few hundred people in my area (all of So. Cal.?) who can breach the driving range fences at 240 yards (right side) to 260 yards (left side). When the machines jam, the operators tilt the machine back and forth to get them working again.

If your course states that it's okay to take the non-range balls, that's fine, just continue to do it. Just don't pick up any ball on the course. It's just not worth potentially ruining a persons round for the $1 you would save for the exact same ball you can get at a place like Golfsmith in the used Pro-V1/x buckets.

[Sante TwoGloves]

That's true too. I am guilty of the arguing for the sake of it sometimes. Everyone wants to think what they are doing is ok to do and try and justify their behavior. I've been giving and receiving all year at this one range. The owner is very seldom there. They have a token machine and the buckets have more regular balls than range balls. I'm sure it's common practice there to give and take just from seeing all the dotted and marked regular balls in the buckets but I will make it a point to ask him when I see him next time. This other range I go to has 100 percent all marked range balls. I would never think of hitting a top flight or something I found into his field. I wouldn't even bother asking. Depends on the range. I have come to the conclusion that you need to ask despite what things look like if you want to give and take guilt free and legal.

[Mr. Desmond]

Early this afternoon on the range, I found a ProV1 and another Titleist in the range ball bag, and hit them with my driver.

See how easy that is?

With so many issues in the world, this is about a golf ball. If you want it that badly, take it and replace it with one of yours...

[golfbrittany]

It's rare that I'd find a ball in good enough condition to even want to take. I'll see some Z-stars once in a while, but I could count on one hand the times where a real ball I've found in a bucket wasn't s cuffed or chipped and good enough to use in a round. Just save 'em for the driver and 3-wood. We've all found plenty of balls when looking for our own by hazards or near OB. Don't get greedy.

[mvmac]

And that would be wrong to do. What we have here I think are certain people who think it's ok to use their own balls at a range because they have been doing that for years and as a result think it's an accepting thing to do ( and it certainly is not without consent from the range) condemning people who take non range balls from the range buckets without asking the range either who think that what they do is also ok to do. The bottomline for me is that both practices are wrong and could hurt the range eitherway, which is why I recommend you ask first whether you are giving or receiving. It's oh so very simple really.

Yeah but there is a big difference between "donating" balls and taking balls from a range.

[Golfingdad]

With so many issues in the world, this is about a golf ball.

This is a big part of my argument as well. I go to the range 2 or 3 times per week and hit a small bucket, which is about 40 balls, I believe. And I've been doing this for probably about three years now. In the 20,000 balls I've hit, I'm not at all being hyperbolic or exaggerating when I say that I may have noticed one or two "pearls" in the bunch. It's such a non issue I can't believe that people care so much about it.

[David in FL]

With so many issues in the world, this is about a golf ball....

[quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/270#post_1196425"] This is a big part of my argument as well. I go to the range 2 or 3 times per week and hit a small bucket, which is about 40 balls, I believe. And I've been doing this for probably about three years now. In the 20,000 balls I've hit, I'm not at all being hyperbolic or exaggerating when I say that I may have noticed one or two "pearls" in the bunch. It's such a non issue I can't believe that people care so much about it. [/quote] I don't know that too many people "care so much about it".....it's simply a discussion. I do notice that in nearly 300 posts, only 2 people have commented more than you though.... :-D

[Golfingdad]

Nope, doesn't explode my theory at all because I do not pick those up either.  As I have stated in so many words in prior threads, though there is no reason at all you should or would remember that.

But I am having a problem understanding your theory even when I accept, arguendo, what I think is (one of) your premises:  When you find a lost ball in the woods you pick it up and then it is yours.

Doesn't that imply that when the course finds a lost ball on its range, it is the course's ball?  Otherwise, you claim to acquire ownership by finding it (on the course's property, BTW) but somehow when the course finds the ball on its range (on the course's own property) does not?  But since you claim to own that found ball in the same sense that the course can claim to own that found ball your brother sliced into the range, I'm still not understanding how this justifies someone who clearly DOES NOT own the ball getting to keep it.  If the ball you found in the woods fell out of your bag on the teebox, would I be justified in scooping it up and keeping it because you had only found it and therefore it wasn't really yours -  which is the argument I hear you making about the range.

For me the only ownership issue I have to worry about is "is it mine".

First off, I would think that you'd be alone or at least in the vast minority of people who think its stealing to collect a ball in the woods (I'm only talking about one that is clearly not possibly in play still) or a tee on the telex.  Wouldn't you agree?

Secondly, that is not my position.  Here's my first post in the thread:

I just don't care. I don't do it, but it's mostly cuz I'm not

hurting for balls and no matter what it looks like I don't really know it's condition.

Here's some more rationalization for ya though: if I found a ball lost on the course that had a unique marking, then by some coincidence I played with the owner of said ball in a future round I'd give it to him and I certainly wouldn't keep it and say "it's mine now cuz you abandoned it."

Likewise, I have no qualms with people who swipe a ball here and there that clearly found its way into a range basket by accident.

I don't claim ownership of a found ball.  I may use it while in possession but I'm never saying "its mine."