Proper Grip Pressure (It's Firmer than You Might Think)

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Really?  I don't feel 100+ pounds of pressure.  I heard that somewhere too, but the body is turning with the force...kinda like riding in an airplane at 500 mph.  

No. The club is pulling outward with 100 pounds of force. Grip the club "lightly" and it'll fly right out.

Let's try to avoid arguing with science. :-)

[Golflivesmatter]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

No. The club is pulling outward with 100 pounds of force. Grip the club "lightly" and it'll fly right out.

Let's try to avoid arguing with science.

Physics...not science.  The rubber grip provides plenty of friction...then add a glove....amazingly enough, my hands know just how much pressure is required to hold onto the club so it's not flying down the fairway.  I really don't get your point.  How do you explain Couple's and Vijay's right hand coming off the club at impact?  

[Vinsk]

20 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Really?  I don't feel 100+ pounds of pressure.  I heard that somewhere too, but the body is turning with the force...kinda like riding in an airplane at 500 mph.  

He didn’t say pressure, he said force. Where force = m x a (mass x acceleration).

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Golflivesmatter said:

How do you explain Couple's and Vijay's right hand coming off the club at impact?  

They're holding firmly with their left hand.

[Golflivesmatter]

3 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

He didn’t say pressure, he said force. Where force = m x a (mass x acceleration).

Oh please...like a 65 year old guy is seeing 100 lbs of pressure on his body.  

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

They're holding firmly with their left hand.

Who told you that?  I went to an outing where Couples talked about swinging freely, with loose hands/wrists.  Swung every club the exact same way...rhythm...timing....he said that was key to looking like he was doing "nothing".  

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Physics...not science.

Physics isn't a science?

13 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

The rubber grip provides plenty of friction...then add a glove....

Fred Couples didn't often wear a glove. And at the PGA Tour level you couldn't even let it move or slip a little bit.

13 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

amazingly enough, my hands know just how much pressure is required to hold onto the club so it's not flying down the fairway.

?

Your hands aren't measuring devices, nor are you likely very aware of the increase in pressure you naturally apply to the club on the downswing.

13 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

I really don't get your point.  How do you explain Couple's and Vijay's right hand coming off the club at impact?  

They grip the club firmly with their left hand.

11 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Oh please...like a 65 year old guy is seeing 100 lbs of pressure on his body.

Who's 65? Also… pressure is force/area. I said force; you keep saying pressure.

You don't think Fred Couples could lift a 100-pound child with one hand for half a second?

11 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Who told you that?  I went to an outing where Couples talked about swinging freely, with loose hands/wrists.  Swung every club the exact same way...rhythm...timing....he said that was key to looking like he was doing "nothing".  

Feel ain't real.

Look, the facts of the matter are that if you don't oppose the forces of the club pulling out of your hands with about 100 pounds of force, the club will move in your hands.

The average PGA Tour player is also gripping the club more firmly and, thus, more evenly throughout the golf swing than the average amateur. The average amateur grips the club too loosely, then squeezes it hard on the downswing (or else, again, it would slip outward).

Beyond just the physics and science of it, there have been actual studies conducted.

 

[billchao]

11 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Oh please...like a 65 year old guy is seeing 100 lbs of pressure on his body.  

Exactly how little force do you think swinging an object 100 mph will exert on the body?

12 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

Who told you that?  I went to an outing where Couples talked about swinging freely, with loose hands/wrists.  Swung every club the exact same way...rhythm...timing....he said that was key to looking like he was doing "nothing".  

It's centrifugal force. I'd go into more detail, but I'm tired. It's physics. An object rotating about a center will exert force away from the rotational center. This force would cause the club to fly out of your hands if you weren't holding onto it.

Friction makes it easier to hold the grip but it doesn't reduce the amount of force being exerted by the club. The faster you swing, the more force is exerted.

[mvmac]

34 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

 I went to an outing where Couples talked about swinging freely, with loose hands/wrists.  Swung every club the exact same way...rhythm...timing....he said that was key to looking like he was doing "nothing".  

There's what he says vs what is actually happening. This stuff has been measured, we also know the club effectively weighs over 100lbs. Just look at Couples' left forearm coming into impact, the muscle contraction is obvious. 

Again, gripping it firmly doesn't mean tense or rigid.

[onthehunt526]

47 minutes ago, mvmac said:

There's what he says vs what is actually happening. This stuff has been measured, we also know the club effectively weighs over 100lbs. Just look at Couples' left forearm coming into impact, the muscle contraction is obvious. 

Again, gripping it firmly doesn't mean tense or rigid.

I thought I heard or read somewhere however that if you only swung the club with the last three fingers of your lead arm, you could still control the club.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I thought I heard or read somewhere however that if you only swung the club with the last three fingers of your lead arm, you could still control the club.

At what point? Because depending on your transition and tempo, good luck controlling it at the top of the backswing.

If that was accurate, too, we’d see more golfers playing one-handed or something.

[Missouri Swede]

On 4/23/2018 at 12:02 AM, Vinsk said:

I come down with the wrath of all that is evil

Swing thought for today.  Check. 💪

[onthehunt526]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

At what point? Because depending on your transition and tempo, good luck controlling it at the top of the backswing.

If that was accurate, too, we’d see more golfers playing one-handed or something.

I know Bob Toski used to have a drill where you would completely take your trail hand off the club after impact to make sure of weight shift and your left arm was "pulling the chain". 

You were right, @iacas. The grip pressure is pretty firm, but the hands are still relaxed. That will be my thought "firm, but still relaxed in the wrists, forearms, up the line"

[Golflivesmatter]

13 hours ago, mvmac said:

There's what he says vs what is actually happening. This stuff has been measured, we also know the club effectively weighs over 100lbs. Just look at Couples' left forearm coming into impact, the muscle contraction is obvious. 

Again, gripping it firmly doesn't mean tense or rigid.

I'm new here so I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression I'm jumping on anyone.  Typed words lack inflection which can lead to misunderstandings.  Plus, I try to relate what works for me, what I have done.  I see a lot of spirited discussions which is great!  So...

I don't know how folks measure grip pressure, especially because address grip pressure may be far different within the swing.  Is it measured at address, top of back swing, and/or at impact?  As I stated, Couple's right hand comes off the club after impact.  It actually must come off because the butt of the club is traveling away from the right hand. which is not holding on with any tension.  Same for Vijay as stated.  As for "grip pressure" discussions by any pro, the reverse could be true to....they say firm...but firm to them is maintaining just enough pressure to not let the club fly out of their hands.  

Edited April 28, 2018 by Golflivesmatter

[Vinsk]

37 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

I'm new here so I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression I'm jumping on anyone.  Typed words lack inflection which can lead to misunderstandings.  Plus, I try to relate what works for me, what I have done.  I see a lot of spirited discussions which is great!  So...

I don't know how folks measure grip pressure, especially because address grip pressure may be far different within the swing.  Is it measured at address, top of back swing, and/or at impact?  As I stated, Couple's right hand comes off the club after impact.  It actually must come off because the butt of the club is traveling away from the right hand. which is not holding on with any tension.  Same for Vijay as stated.  As for "grip pressure" discussions by any pro, the reverse could be true to....they say firm...but firm to them is maintaining just enough pressure to not let the club fly out of their hands.  

Naming a couple of outliers doesn't alter the norm, or refute the main concept. Swinging a club over 100mph is not done with a ‘holding a small bird’ grip. It doesn’t matter what any golfer, pro or hack is feeling. Feels aren’t real. Just like Jack saying he ‘feels as is if he’s swinging while standing in a barrel.’ He may feel he is, but video shows he’s obviously not. He’d tip the barrel over from his lead hip moving toward the target. 

Grip pressure can and has been measured. What is found is that tour players tend to have a much more consistent grip pressure than amateurs throughout the swing. 

Sam Snead didn’t have access to the technology today. But you can guarantee had his grip strength been measured during a swing, you’d have one dead sparrow.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

I know Bob Toski used to have a drill where you would completely take your trail hand off the club after impact to make sure of weight shift and your left arm was "pulling the chain".

Which I generally like, but at the same time… the right hand and arm contribute, too.

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

You were right, @iacas. The grip pressure is pretty firm, but the hands are still relaxed. That will be my thought "firm, but still relaxed in the wrists, forearms, up the line"

Yeah, to be clear(er), I'm not suggesting you squeeze the grip. It's just not "light" like a lot of people seem to think. Like the first few posts say, many amateurs have too light a grip pressure, that ratchets up (out of necessity) during the swing.

53 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

I'm new here so I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression I'm jumping on anyone.  Typed words lack inflection which can lead to misunderstandings.  Plus, I try to relate what works for me, what I have done.  I see a lot of spirited discussions which is great!  So...

That's not always a great judge, what you feel you've done. It fails in three ways:

• Feel ain't real. You may not know what you're actually doing.
• You're a small sample size. You're one person.
• You're not conducting a controlled experiment. Even something you try "now" may work better or differently or worse in two weeks.

53 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

I don't know how folks measure grip pressure, especially because address grip pressure may be far different within the swing.  Is it measured at address, top of back swing, and/or at impact?

Grip pressure has been measured throughout the swing. The graphs I've seen often look something like this:

Amateurs grip the club lighter at first, but because they must grip it more firmly in transition and the downswing, they do. Pros are more consistent, but start with a firmer grip pressure, too.

33 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

As I stated, Couple's right hand comes off the club after impact.

Again… his left hand is holding on pretty damn tightly!

33 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

It actually must come off because the butt of the club is traveling away from the right hand.

 Kinda off topic for this discussion, but… yeah, I'll stick with off topic.

33 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

As for "grip pressure" discussions by any pro, the reverse could be true to....they say firm...but firm to them is maintaining just enough pressure to not let the club fly out of their hands.  

In my experience… and the studies I've seen, most amateurs grip the club too lightly, and often benefit from holding the club a bit more firmly, so that they can be more like the blue line than the red line.

23 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Naming a couple of outliers doesn't alter the norm, or refute the main concept. Swinging a club over 100mph is not done with a ‘holding a small bird’ grip. It doesn’t matter what any golfer, pro or hack is feeling. Feels aren’t real. Just like Jack saying he ‘feels as is if he’s swinging while standing in a barrel.’ He may feel he is, but video shows he’s obviously not. He’d tip the barrel over from his lead hip moving toward the target.

Well stated, yes.

You'll find, @Golflivesmatter, that I'm not particularly interested in what people say they do, but more what good/great players actually do.

Also, if a PGA Tour player says they grip it at 3-4 out of 10… that 3-4 might be an 8 for someone with weaker hands, someone who hasn't hit 500 golf balls a day for the past 25 years…

23 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Grip pressure can and has been measured. What is found is that tour players tend to have a much more consistent grip pressure than amateurs throughout the swing. Sam Snead didn’t have access to the technology today. But you can guarantee had his grip strength been measured during a swing, you’d have one dead sparrow.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure even a 20 pound weight would crush a baby bird.

[Golflivesmatter]

13 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I thought I heard or read somewhere however that if you only swung the club with the last three fingers of your lead arm, you could still control the club.

100% correct.  No...1,000%.  

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Golflivesmatter said:

100% correct.  No...1,000%.  

It's not.

[Golflivesmatter]

42 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Naming a couple of outliers doesn't alter the norm, or refute the main concept. Swinging a club over 100mph is not done with a ‘holding a small bird’ grip. It doesn’t matter what any golfer, pro or hack is feeling. Feels aren’t real. Just like Jack saying he ‘feels as is if he’s swinging while standing in a barrel.’ He may feel he is, but video shows he’s obviously not. He’d tip the barrel over from his lead hip moving toward the target. 

Grip pressure can and has been measured. What is found is that tour players tend to have a much more consistent grip pressure than amateurs throughout the swing. 

Sam Snead didn’t have access to the technology today. But you can guarantee had his grip strength been measured during a swing, you’d have one dead sparrow.

It's just that Couple's swing is probably the smoothest and most commented upon.  While you have the data and I don't, I certainly agree the pro's grip pressure is more constant.  It's smart to eliminate variables.  Good so far.

All I can tell you is what I do and feel, I'm not talking in the abstract.  I don't feel 100 pounds of force on any swing.  There may well be 100 lbs of force, but it's irrelevant to focus upon. 

Let me ask you this:  If you were asked to pick up a 5 lb weight, you need to lift a "dead weight" in your direction.  If that same weight is on a string, and I asked you to swing the weight like a tether ball by turning your body in circle, using centrifugal force, it's still 5 pounds....but the revolving around your body on a wider arc based on body turn.  That negates the weight because the weight is moving in the same direction, not towards you or away, which of course would cause problems.  The weight will feel nearly weightless.