One Ball condition- Presidents Cup

[ncarlsongolf]

What the heck is that ruling?  

How do you lose one hole two times?

 They gave Phil a ruling which made him pick up his ball, he was out of the hole, then they win the hole and are awarded an additional hole?

It makes no sense given Zach Johnson was still playing the hole?

I've never heard or ran across any ruling that just awards additional  holes in match play? Loss of hole, Yes. Winning additional holes, NO.  

Can someone help to make sense of this?

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF CONDITION: 

 

Match play - At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred; maximum deduction per round - Two holes.

Stroke play - Two strokes for each hole at which any breach occurred; maximum penalty per round - Four strokes (two strokes at each of the first two holes at which any breach occurred).

Bogey and Par competitions - See Note 1 to Rule 32-1a.

Stableford competitions - See Note 1 to Rule 32-1b.

 

(ii) Procedure When Breach Discovered 

When a player discovers that he has played a ball in breach of this condition, he must abandon that ball before playing from the next teeing ground and complete the round with a proper ball; otherwise, the player is disqualified. If discovery is made during play of a hole and the player elects to substitute a proper ball before completing that hole, the player must place a proper ball on the spot where the ball played in breach of the condition lay."

 

 

I did find this but, it makes no sense that they had Phil stop playing the hole.  It was a mistake and he should have been allowed to substitute the correct ball and continue playing knowing they are going to adjust the match by one hole anyways.

 

Crazy Rules of Golf,  I guess? 

[Golfingdad]

As of now, here's how they've explained it:  the violation did not cause them to lose the hole.  The violation caused them to receive a one hole penalty and they also happened to lose the hole.

Part of the reason they lost the hole is because Phil picked up (he was told to - committee error they just announced but nothing that can be done about that now) when he should have gone ahead and played out.  Had they won the hole it would have just been a wash.

[mvmac]

As of now, here's how they've explained it:  the violation did not cause them to lose the hole.  The violation caused them to receive a one hole penalty and they also happened to lose the hole.

Part of the reason they lost the hole is because Phil picked up (he was told to - committee error they just announced but nothing that can be done about that now) when he should have gone ahead and played out.  Had they won the hole it would have just been a wash.

So if they halved the hole, they would have been 1 down, right? They were AS going into that hole.

Edited October 9, 2015 by mvmac

[Golfingdad]

So if they halved the hole, they would have been 1 down, right?

Yeah, they'd have been one down. 

Anybody who actually saw that hole:  where was Phil when he picked up?

[mvmac]

Yeah, they'd have been one down. 

Anybody who actually saw that hole:  where was Phil when he picked up?

Don't know I missed it, from the pic it looks like it was on the putting green.

 

Riddle us this: How do you lose one hole twice? Phil Mickelson and Zach Johnson started No. 7 AS against Adam Scott and Jason Day, but finished the hole 2 down after Phil breached the ‘one-ball rule’, playing a different model of Callaway ball than the one he had started the match with. (Phil reported himself once he realized the mistake.)

A photo posted by Golf Channel (@golfchannel) on Oct 8, 2015 at 9:16pm PDT

Edited October 9, 2015 by mvmac

[Golfingdad]

Don't know I missed it, from the pic it looks like it was on the putting green.

I'm curious how that even happens with a guy at that level.  I mean, why is there even a second type of ball in your bag in the first place?

[ncarlsongolf]

I'm curious how that even happens with a guy at that level.  I mean, why is there even a second type of ball in your bag in the first place?

I completely agree you should only ever have the one ball you are playing in your bag at that level.  I will say however Callaway has introduced a Chrome Soft + that Phil and the boys have been using (I am currently testing them) my guess is that he had some of the Regular Chrome Soft and Chrome Soft + both in his bag.  It's a shame really and hope it doesn't affect the outcome of the match anymore than it has.

[Golfingdad]

I completely agree you should only ever have the one ball you are playing in your bag at that level.  I will say however Callaway has introduced a Chrome Soft + that Phil and the boys have been using (I am currently testing them) my guess is that he had some of the Regular Chrome Soft and Chrome Soft + both in his bag.  It's a shame really and hope it doesn't affect the outcome of the match anymore than it has.

That makes a lot of sense - good point.

[mvmac]

I'm curious how that even happens with a guy at that level.  I mean, why is there even a second type of ball in your bag in the first place?

Phil likes to tinker so I assume he was testing a couple different types of balls during the practice rounds and had one or a few left in his bag. 

Or maybe it was a Callaway ball that he used in foursomes with Zach.

[Golfingdad]

Turns out he pulled the firmer ball out on purpose.  He didn't think the one ball rule was in effect.

[Rulesman]

I think the CoC applied in the fourball but not the foursomes.

Can anyone confirm?

[saevel25]

Does anyone else think that one-ball rule is stupid? Does it really matter if he switched brands or model of the golf ball? 

[ncarlsongolf]

Does anyone else think that one-ball rule is stupid? Does it really matter if he switched brands or model of the golf ball? 

It is not a stupid rule, if you took it out of the equation you could have guys gaining even more of an advantage by pulling a hard ball that has little spin on par 5's and hitting it 7 miles. Then they would turn around and launch a high spinning 4 iron on the next hole and get it to stop, or back up.  It would just totally change the dynamics.  The way it is now is you can't more distance out of your ball without affecting the spin.  You would be able to change that one every hole if the one ball rule wasn't in affect.  I agree with the rule, just never thought you could lose the same hole twice.

[RemyM]

I think the CoC applied in the fourball but not the foursomes.

Can anyone confirm?

One ball condition was not in effect during the foursomes since partners can be playing two different type of balls, but is in effect during fourball and singles.

Phil claims one ball condition is not in effect during any part of the Ryder Cup.

Mistake one, Phil should have known, or checked before he put that ball in play.

Mistake two, rules official blew it, he was allowed to finish the hole with the ball in play.

[Golfingdad]

I think the CoC applied in the fourball but not the foursomes.

Can anyone confirm?

Yes, I heard exactly that last night on the coverage.

Does anyone else think that one-ball rule is stupid? Does it really matter if he switched brands or model of the golf ball? 

Not necessarily stupid, but definitely obsolete and unnecessary.  Phil also mentioned last night that the PGA Championship doesn't use the rule and I doubt anybody thinks any less of the tournament because of that.

For the sake of the head ref, who was commendably taking full responsibility for the communication screw up, I hope the outcome of the cup is not an international victory by 1/2 a point.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Golfingdad

[iacas]

Not necessarily stupid, but definitely obsolete and unnecessary.  Phil also mentioned last night that the PGA Championship doesn't use the rule and I doubt anybody thinks any less of the tournament because of that.

I disagree that it's obsolete and unnecessary.

In fact, if that rule were rescinded, I think you'd be surprised at what ball engineers could come up with… and how much it would change the way the game is played on the PGA Tour. One stroke here and there means a few hundred thousand dollars, remember.

This thread isn't about that.

[ay33660]

I have no issues with the one ball rule.

I do have an issue with the retroactive nature of the penalty in match play.

Team A is one up teeing off the 18th. By normal accounts they are "dormie".

The 18th is halved so Team A wins the match ..... or do they?

Upon picking up his ball on the 18th green one left handed member of Team A discovers that he has been playing the wrong ball for at least the last 3 holes (for example he remembers that he switched balls on a Par 5 three holes ago).

Team B wins the match due to the two hole penalty.

Or do I have the math wrong??????

Team A would have won by one hole but when we apply the two hole penalty they have actually lost by one hole. 

 

[RemyM]

I have no issues with the one ball rule.

I do have an issue with the retroactive nature of the penalty in match play.

Team A is one up teeing off the 18th. By normal accounts they are "dormie".

The 18th is halved so Team A wins the match ..... or do they?

Upon picking up his ball on the 18th green one left handed member of Team A discovers that he has been playing the wrong ball for at least the last 3 holes (for example he remembers that he switched balls on a Par 5 three holes ago).

Team B wins the match due to the two hole penalty.

Or do I have the math wrong??????

Team A would have won by one hole but when we apply the two hole penalty they have actually lost by one hole. 

 

You are correct.  Violations having to do with equipment results in retro active penalties in both stroke and match play but have limits. The limit is two holes in match play and two stroke penalties on two holes (4 strokes total) in stroke play.

The most amazing thing is that every rules official there mixed up the rule for playing a wrong ball with the penalty for violating the "one ball" condition of competition.  Somebody pull out a rule book for a minute.

Edited October 9, 2015 by RemyM