Shoulder Turn

[Bill926]

I've been told many times that I need more shoulder turn for more distance and more consistency overall.  I'm have a hard time trying to find a good way to practice this.  If I force a bigger turn, and hit a good one, I can see a big difference with higher and more solid iron shots and also gives me a little draw on driver shots with better distance.  The problem I'm having on is timing I think.  A lot of shots it feels like i'm getting stuck behind and pushing right, or the opposite with a big hook.  So i'm not sure forcing a turn is the best way to practice, as I don't want to introduce new issues.

Should good shoulder turn be a result of other parts of the swing or should I continue to force it until I'm not thinking about it anymore?

Thanks for any suggestions!

[colin007]

i think what youre going to hear from most people here is for you to post a My Swing thread with a video of your swing.  its so hard to give any advice when we dont know what the swing looks like.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

 

make sure to read the Member Swing Rules link.

[mvmac]

I've been told many times that I need more shoulder turn for more distance and more consistency overall.  I'm have a hard time trying to find a good way to practice this.  If I force a bigger turn, and hit a good one, I can see a big difference with higher and more solid iron shots and also gives me a little draw on driver shots with better distance.  The problem I'm having on is timing I think.  A lot of shots it feels like i'm getting stuck behind and pushing right, or the opposite with a big hook.  So i'm not sure forcing a turn is the best way to practice, as I don't want to introduce new issues.

Should good shoulder turn be a result of other parts of the swing or should I continue to force it until I'm not thinking about it anymore?

Thanks for any suggestions!

In addition to what @colin007 said.

And more good info here.

Edited October 14, 2015 by mvmac

[ncarlsongolf]

As always, its hard to tell exactly what you are doing without seeing it first hand, what I would recommend is watching this video.

It is very helpful in feeling what a should turn should feel like.  It is never just a keep going until you can't anymore.

Edited October 14, 2015 by mvmac
Video

[Mike Boatright]

Yes it's a hard thing to master and it takes some agility but more so a proper set up and on plane swing so you don't get stuck. You also need to understand the concept.

 

[arturo28mx]

For me, thinking of turning my shoulders does not work well. However, thinking of turning my back works a lot better. It's not necessarily the same thing.

[mythbuster]

I've been told many times that I need more shoulder turn for more distance and more consistency overall.  I'm have a hard time trying to find a good way to practice this.  If I force a bigger turn, and hit a good one, I can see a big difference with higher and more solid iron shots and also gives me a little draw on driver shots with better distance.  The problem I'm having on is timing I think.  A lot of shots it feels like i'm getting stuck behind and pushing right, or the opposite with a big hook.  So i'm not sure forcing a turn is the best way to practice, as I don't want to introduce new issues.

Should good shoulder turn be a result of other parts of the swing or should I continue to force it until I'm not thinking about it anymore?

Thanks for any suggestions!

look i am a high handicapper and i suppose i am out of my depth here, but i discovered something recently with my shoulders , so do not take too much notice of my temporary handicap.

to cut a long story short, i found out the problem why i had a very stiff shoulder turn , totally stuffing up anything that even resembled a normal swing.  anyway, now that i have "found" a very free turn, it is a whole new learning experience for me as the swing just seems totally free and  effortless.

that in itself is the problem as before i was always looking at YOU TUBE clips with the usual suspects -some guy with hands on chest and arms crossed, trying to portray this is what a golf swing actually is, with the obligatory weight shift semantics thrown in to totally confuse the uninitiated.

i have finally worked out that this concept is at best questionable and at worst total nonsense.

the reason that pros appear to turn their shoulders" more" is only because they are hell bent on keeping their left arm straight, because they are under the misconception that a so called wider swing arc gives them more clubhead speed.they learn that at golfing school and it is ingrained after awhile.

this is so ridiculous it defies belief- could you imagine trying to hit a tennis backhand or forehand with a straight rigid left arm.  what about trying to crack a whip?  there are so many examples about how golf is a "one' out for no reason except a delusion by people who wish to keep it "under wraps'.

as i said, i have no proven track record , but just try something a bit different - instead of focusing on the shoulder and left arm straight fiasco, just focus on your hands and swinging the club freely and not worrying about clubface angle going back.

i bet you will be amazed at the amount of effortless  "whip" you get at impact, and how your club face "squares" automatically .

 

 

 

 

[saevel25]

the reason that pros appear to turn their shoulders" more" is only because they are hell bent on keeping their left arm straight, because they are under the misconception that a so called wider swing arc gives them more clubhead speed.they learn that at golfing school and it is ingrained after awhile.

Some PGA Tour players don't maintain that straight left harm. How about the best player last year :) In the end some PGA Tour players keep their lead arm very straight and some bend it. 

as i said, i have no proven track record , but just try something a bit different - instead of focusing on the shoulder and left arm straight fiasco, just focus on your hands and swinging the club freely and not worrying about clubface angle going back.

The fact is a proper turn and sequencing between the hips, shoulders and arms leads to a better golf swing. No one really advocates a straight lead arm. Honestly, I rarely see this advice given by PGA Tour players or instructors. It's honestly not really high on the list of things for good instructors to say and even bad ones. 

Also, concentrating on something is a feel thought. Those change depending on the golfer. Some players might need to feel more hands doing something. Some might need to feel just turning. It depends. In the end, just because you concentrate on your hands doesn't mean they will do what you want in the golf swing. 

 

[mvmac]

the reason that pros appear to turn their shoulders" more" is only because they are hell bent on keeping their left arm straight, because they are under the misconception that a so called wider swing arc gives them more clubhead speed.they learn that at golfing school and it is ingrained after awhile.

Not really, this stuff has been measured by 3D motion capture systems.

The reason they can turn more than 90 degrees is because they do a lot of the right things, they pivot on an inclined angle with a steady head, they pivot all the way to the top (no stalling) and allow the knees to change flex.

Honestly, I rarely see this advice given by PGA Tour players or instructors. It's honestly not really high on the list of things for good instructors to say and even bad ones. 

And for some amateurs, having the lead arm bent is due to their pivot stalling. Body stops turning and they bend the arm to create the feel of making a "full" backswing.

[Bill926]

Thanks for the replies.  I'm going to look at some of those videos and come up with some drills.  Hopefully I can get it to happen naturally instead of forcing or thinking about it.

[Jeremie Boop]

In addition to what @colin007 said.

And more good info here.

I have a quick question on this video. At A3 I look a lot like the swing on the left, however at the top of the backswing I look much more like the swing on the right when it comes to my shoulder turn. My question is this, does the sequence matter or is it more about achieving the proper position?

[mvmac]

I have a quick question on this video. At A3 I look a lot like the swing on the left, however at the top of the backswing I look much more like the swing on the right when it comes to my shoulder turn. My question is this, does the sequence matter or is it more about achieving the proper position?

Sequence does matter. If you get there (A4) with a full turn and the arms synced with the pivot, you're fine. Typically if golfers are under-turned at A3, you'll see them be under-turned at A4. Might also see the arms continue moving even as the pivot stops.

[sirhacksalot]

I find it easier to shoulder turn if I preset my wrists very early in the backswing, I have been trying not to do this for a wider slower backswing, but is there anything "wrong" with early wrist hinging?

[mythbuster]

i want to share something with you that may seem a bit obscure, but very relevant to my own game.

i am not talking about artificial manipulations either, which i see so often taught in the name of better golf instruction.

ok, in regard to the guy in one of  the previous posts demonstrating the shoulder turn with his hands on chest . i can"t actually do this maneuver the way he presents it, as i just lock up my hips and shoulders.

but i have found a way i can do it quite easily, with just a slight modification. and i have incorporated that in to my set up for golf shots with amazing results in initial trials.

it probably is just applicable to my own physical makeup, so i wouldn't take what i say as gospel for a "normal" golfer scenario.

when i bend down towards the ball, i purposefully allow my right pelvis region muscles to "collapse" somewhat. this causes the spine to slope to the right, but also the hips to turn marginally to the left and the chest to turn even more to the left.  you must under no circumstance try and keep the shoulders artificially pointing at the target, as this locks things up.

after that, you are in total equilibrium,  - what i mean by that is that you can do all or none of the vast plethora of unnecessary acrobatic antics "showered" upon us  in modern day  golf teaching, and still get the same result- a very nice swing, as this setup is ,i feel, the "holy grail" to  a small section of the golfing fraternity, burdened with inflexibility issues .

Edited October 20, 2015 by iacas
removed extra returns

[mvmac]

 

after that, you are in total equilibrium,  - what i mean by that is that you can do all or none of the vast plethora of unnecessary acrobatic antics "showered" upon us  in modern day  golf teaching, and still get the same result- a very nice swing, as this setup is ,i feel, the "holy grail" to  a small section of the golfing fraternity, burdened with inflexibility issues .

That feel may work for you but not everyone will arrive at the same result because everyone has different starting points. Some players will have an S curve (lower back), some will be neutral and some might have a C curve. You can't recommend the same feels for every golfers, feels are personal.

[mythbuster]

you know mvmac, this forum has actually launched me on a discovery tour. it is not so much the instructional tips, but the fact that there is so much info presented here that it forces me to try and follow a different path to solving my own swing dilemmas.

in other words, i respect the views of others who are proven players here, but i honestly think that my problems can only be solved by myself, as i have, what i consider to be "unique" swing problems.

what happens though is that i "invent" a new theory every few days, and it lasts just as long.

that is why i like this forum, as i can post my latest and greatest without fear of ridicule.

thanking you 

 

 

 

 

[ghalfaire]

I find it easier to shoulder turn if I preset my wrists very early in the backswing, I have been trying not to do this for a wider slower backswing, but is there anything "wrong" with early wrist hinging?

I hope not. I too have discovered that if I set my hands early it helps me get my shoulder turned.  If I don't set the hands early, or forbid try to not use the hands,  I tend to "lift" the club with my arm/hands and not make a proper shoulder turn.  But this early set does seem to lead to a narrower swing arc.  But for me it seems to have helped some but like anything it can be overdone.

[mythbuster]

when you say you set your hands early , it seems to me as though you are "manipulating" your natural swing.

probably the best way to get an early wrist set naturally, which does not make your swing feel artificial, is a twofold method.

first of all you, turn your grip (left hand) to a tad stronger position on the shaft (over the shaft), and treat your right hand as almost non existent- almost feather light with just thumb and forefinger in contact.

then all you do as you start the backswing is to think you are just about to hammer or chop something with your club from the side with the left hand in total control, no conscious right hand input at all.

that will give you more coordination and sync.and a huge unforced, natural shoulder turn.

also, it has the added benefit, once mastered, of giving you "options' of curving the ball left or right at will, just by using your hands .this skill will come later as a natural progression with practice.

you see, the problem with modern day golf teaching is that we are encouraged to try to emulate the characteristics of what we see the so called greats doing at setup and in swinging a club, and we then end up missing the whole point . that is why the typical amateur swings look so "robotic".